Having a really hard time trying to find meaningful social interactions for my child.

[marimara]

del

Edited by marimara - 5/24/11 at 1:18pm

[earthworm]

My son (3.5) sounds a lot like your daughter and our situation sounds similar, though he has never had any good friends. We actually live in GA as well (you wouldn't happen to be anywhere near/in Fayette Co, would you? heh).
I hope you get some great advice!
Someone else told me that this age is often the toughest as far as finding social situations for kids. So much is geared towards younger or older kids and I think it is often assumed 3 and 4 year olds are in preschool.

[laohaire]

Too bad we can't all just get together. My DD would love to play with yours. And she would be very nice and very tolerant.

DD kind of worships the neighbor girl, who is apparently popular (and even has a boyfriend - she just turned 6) and will ignore DD if there are any other kids around. If it's just DD and this girl, they'll play nicely together. Not a meaningful relationship imho.

Another friend is great but we always meet at playgrounds because DH and I don't want to go over the friend's mom's house and don't want to invite her over here. Sorry if that sounds awful, but she chain-smokes and reeks negativity (such that I feel like I have to detox for a while after getting together). Her daughter is nice, and we hang out and chat whenever we can, but I don't see how it's going to turn into more than a once-a-week playdate at the park.

Another girl is terrific and I like the parents but they live pretty far away.

A boy is nice and we like the parents but they are just really busy. Not blow-us-off busy, but they are kind of like leaders in the community and such. So it's only chance meetings.

DD loves her new cousin (and the feeling is mutual) but they are in different states.

Annnnd... I don't drive (legally blind). And I'm married to a hermit. And I am apparently the SOLE representative of MDC in my (rather large) county. And we're planning to move to another state.

DH promises up and down that when we move, he will put on his "social hat" (oddly, while he's chosen to live a hermit life, he has outstanding social skills and can make friends left and right if he just makes the effort - whereas I find myself so shy I can barely speak to potential mom-friends) and round up some great friends for DD. I really hope this will come to fruition. And soon. DD is very social, being with other kids is like the highlight of her life.

[marimara]

del

Edited by marimara - 5/24/11 at 1:25pm

[Holiztic]

I am not sure trading your husband for playmates is a step up, honestly, especially at 4. While meaningful relationships with peers is great, I think that the relationship with her father is far more important at this age.

However, I understand how you are feeling. We are in an area often called the "secular homeschooling mecca" but at 3.5 my son really doesn't fit in with the homeschooling crowd, yet all his peers are in preschool. Our best friends (with 2 young kids) just moved to Austria! So he sees kids at gymnastics and plays with the older neighborhood boys ocassionally (not often).

So for now most of his peer interactions are transitory--he never sees the same kids twice (playground), but he doesn't really seem to mind. I wonder if at this age (before 6 or so) they don't really need 'meaningful' peer relationships--meaningful relationships for sure, but peer ones? Not sure how much that matters (and I have a very social kid that talks about big girls he met at the playground months ago).

Don't stress yourself out too much, she's probably doing better than you think with just you!

[marimara]

Originally Posted by Holiztic

I am not sure trading your husband for playmates is a step up, honestly, especially at 4. While meaningful relationships with peers is great, I think that the relationship with her father is far more important at this age.

However, I understand how you are feeling. We are in an area often called the "secular homeschooling mecca" but at 3.5 my son really doesn't fit in with the homeschooling crowd, yet all his peers are in preschool. Our best friends (with 2 young kids) just moved to Austria! So he sees kids at gymnastics and plays with the older neighborhood boys ocassionally (not often).

So for now most of his peer interactions are transitory--he never sees the same kids twice (playground), but he doesn't really seem to mind. I wonder if at this age (before 6 or so) they don't really need 'meaningful' peer relationships--meaningful relationships for sure, but peer ones? Not sure how much that matters (and I have a very social kid that talks about big girls he met at the playground months ago).

Don't stress yourself out too much, she's probably doing better than you think with just you!

Thanks!! I really really agree with you. I honestly do feel that it's more important for daddy to be around than to have more friends. There is slightly more to the story, like the fact that I can't stand it here but yeah I agree (and dh agrees) that it's more important to keep our family together. (unless he deploys for 6 months-than you can bet I"ll be moving!).

Allthough I really honestly feel that if dd had at least one nice, mellow friend that she saw often it could help her get over her fears, anxiety, etc. Someone to help bring her out of her shell. But then again, we still do have time. We will make the best of it with the transitory friends and try to work on finding more along the way! Thanks for the boost.

But I'm still looking for ideas on how to make the best of it. BTDT with shy lonely kids who wishes for a best friend

[jenfl]

Another one here having problems finding other kids for my quiet 3 year old. As a PP said, I've also heard that 3-4 years is the toughest time for many homeschoolers because the kids are old enough to want some interaction, most peers are in preschool, and homeschool groups aim older.

I'm trying to cultivate a friendship with a mom with a similar personality daughter who only does preschool twice a week, but I'm pretty sure she's avoiding coming over. We do library storytime and have tried a few classes (too expensive, no other kids attending). I've even tried starting my own preschool art group!

I'm hoping that as DS gets older and tolerates his car seat better, we can start making the 30-60 minute drives to the part of the city where there's more activities for her.

For now.... no advice, just commiseration.

[laohaire]

I think it's totally fine to go to a mom and say "hey, our girls seem to play really well together, here's my number if you'd like to get together again!"

Then there's no pressure or weirdness... if she's not interested, you'll never hear from her. But if you do, you know she wanted to!

I still do wish our kids could play together though, my girl is so mellow and easy going and also very happy and willing to go along with whatever.

[karanyavel]

Might be an unpopular view, but I'd relax for now.

TBH, I never even MET another child until I was nearly six years old and entered K. We lived in a very, very rural area (way down a gravel road, eight miles away from the closest town, which had a population of under 100). My parents were terrified about my social skills but I never had a bit of trouble (at least until we moved in 5th grade but that's another story...)

My daughter is six and doesn't have any friends in real life, although she enjoys playing with other kids at playgrounds -- and has GREAT social skills -- and she has a bunch of online friends (mostly slightly older than her) in a kids' game she plays daily. She does want RL friends and when we move in a few months, that will be much easier to make a reality. Where I live is similar to what you describe... the only homeschooling group is tiny and requires a signed statement of faith... pretty much everyone is religious and, without exception, everyone we've met thinks we are crazy freaks for homeschooling.

But at 4? Especially at just-turned-4? Let's just say we deliberately stayed away from social situations with other kids because it was incredibly stressful for everyone involved and it did NOT work out well. DD just needed more time to mature before she could handle social situations. "Highly Sensitive Child" describes her to a tee but we didn't put a label on it, just "She's not ready for other kids yet".

I don't think having friends at 4 is necessary, though it may be desirable for some or most kids. Definitely -- IMO -- it is a lot more important that she can spend time with caring adults, like yourself, her father, her art & ballet teachers (or so I hope), etc.

And I think what you are doing is plenty, certainly more than enough. We just piddled around at home at 4... no classes or anything, no structured activities, nada. I read to her a bit, played some games with her, visited grandparents occasionally (at most once a month), answered her questions, kept her loved/fed/clothed/clean and that's really all.

Also, IMO, there is no such thing as progressing too quickly. It's great that your daughter is reading at a 1st grade level at barely four years old!

I truly hope I don't cause offense but what I'm picking up from your post more than anything is your own anxiety that somehow your child will be harmed if she doesn't have friends or frequent contact with other kids at 4 years old. I assure you that is not the case and that I seem to have turned out okay

Fun quote on my first day of Kindergarten (a month shy of my 6th birthday):
Me: "Hey, look Mom! A bunch of other little people like me!"
Mom: "Those are other children, honey. They're little because they haven't grown up yet, either."
Me: "Whoaaa..." (a la Keanu Reeves)

I would also like to say that I learned more valuable social skills by interacting with adults when I was a child than I learned by interacting with other children. Politeness, tact, friendship, etc., were all things I picked up by being around my parents and other adults.

What I learned from other kids (in a PS setting) was mostly things like:
- Your value is determined by the brand of jeans you wear.
- Girls shouldn't do anything fun because they might get dirty and that would be TERRIBLE.
- It's easier to get along with people if you pretend to be less intelligent than you are.
- NEVER admit -- no matter how respectfully -- to having any beliefs different from those of your peers (religion, politics, etc., etc.).

I was greatly relieved when I re-entered the adult world at 16 or so and was able to discard all that I had picked up from my same-age peers in school.

Certainly I enjoyed spending time with other kids -- from K to 5th grade, anyway -- but it wasn't a huge deal to me. I don't think I missed out on anything special by not being around other kids until I was older.

Moral of the story? Relax! Unless your daughter's lack of friends is really making her unhappy, it's probably not a big deal. There's no magic age that will pass by and leave your child socially stunted, and I think some kids are just not ready for peer-to-peer interaction at your DD's age. (My kid certainly wasn't, nor was my husband, and I suspect I wasn't either... I was *awfully* sensitive to having my feelings hurt at 4. One grumpy word towards me (or one word I *thought* was grumpy) and I'd be upset for the entire rest of the day.)

--K

[marimara]

I MDC! Thanks Karanyavel! I wasn't offended at all. There is a lot of anxiety on my part of course because how we live our lives is so vastly different from everyone around here it's hard to feel validated. On the other hand, dd does have some sensory issues but I'm not sure they are so big after all. I'm thankful for all the replies and it does make me feel that everything will be ok after all. She does wish really bad for a friend but it will happen in it's own time. She def. has her own time table for sure, she just now fell asleep by herself for the first time ever last night. With a glowstick I think I'll take her to the park today.

[karanyavel]

Different can be good

I grew up in a very "different" household than most. I had TWO stay-at-home parents (my parents were small business owners and I would stay at the business with them while they worked). Never once had a babysitter -- not even extended family -- nor did I ever attend any kind of daycare or after-school care. My dad was really proud of that.

Mom and dad are 25 years apart in age (Dad is now 85 and still going strong!) and have been happily married for 42 years.

We lived right in the buckle of the bible belt (SW Missouri) and never went to church. My dad identifies as a non-practicing Mormon of some kind or another, and I never really figured my mom out, religion-wise. She probably would fit well into a UU church, though. They were determined to let me make my own decisions as far as religion go, and I dabbled in various religions until I was 8 or so. I've been an atheist since.

I do have one sibling and he is 8 years older than me but we never really fought and were always quite close. But he was more like a third parent to me than anything.

My parents DID send me to public school (I wanted to go) -- until I became miserable with it after we moved. My mom pulled me out of school in 8th grade and I was unschooled from then on. Never had, nor desired, any kind of extracurricular activities or classes. However, throughout my childhood my parents always supported my interests by buying me things to teach myself subjects not offered in school or to supplement the subjects I liked. So I had a lot of art supplies, a microscope, a telescope, chemistry sets, musical instruments, etc. Also, when I was in PS, my parents would frequently pull me out for weeks at a time to take long family vacations... and they let me skip school as often as I wanted. I don't think they had truency officers back then, or at least not in our patch of the woods.

I had a wonderful, rich childhood and loved almost every minute of it. The only bad memories I have are of PS after 5th grade.

My husband, on the other hand, had a super-mainstream upper-middle-class upbringing. Two parents working full time, one sibling about a year younger than him, daycare at 6 weeks old, preschool, Pre-K, after-school care, PS through 12th grade at what is supposed to be one of the top schools in the nation. Required to play a musical instrument, go to church, participate in the handbell choir, take swimming lessons, soccer, gymnastics, etc., etc.

His childhood SUCKED (his words, not mine). Oh, and here's the funny part: he has terrible social anxiety even today, and even when the anxiety part is controlled with meds, he is socially clueless and only interacts with others when it is absolutely necessary. At home he is outgoing and a wonderful husband and father -- but in public? Yikes. He freezes if the cashier asks him how he's doing today. He does fine with my parents and my brother (after a lengthly warming up period) but struggles to interact well with his own.

I find this really interesting as DH doesn't seem to have Asperger's or anything and we are both very, very similar people in many ways except that we were raised completely differently. His parents pushed him like crazy, especially on the social front, whereas mine didn't really give a crap if I had friends or not unless it was a problem for me.

Needless to say, DH and I chose to be "different" when it came to our kids. We have a 6 year old DD and another on the way and we deliberately spaced them that far apart. We've swapped back and forth between SAHM and SAHD but it's always been extremely important to us that one of us is at home with our child. We're relaxed homeschoolers, atheists (but open to the idea that our children may choose differently), and just generally "weirdos" compared to mainstream parents. DD hasn't had any extracurriculars so far (no interest on her part) but recently decided she wants swimming lessons and karate lessons we'll be doing that once we move in a few months.

Oh and she nursed until nearly four, still falls asleep with me most nights, and wants company in the bathroom (!) if it's dark outside because she's recently developed a fear of the dark. She still sleeps in our bedroom, but in her own bed, so we're definitely on our own timetable too We're AP-types and figure she'll be in her own room before she goes to college (if she chooses to) so it's no big deal to us.

I'd probably be pulling my hair out if I was raised by mainstream parents but I am VERY glad I wasn't, and our family is happy as can be. DH generally tells me to call the shots, parentingwise, because he wants our kids to have a lifestyle as much like the one I had and as little like his as possible.

I hope this makes you feel a bit better about your family's differentness. Since it matters to your DD, I hope she does find a friend or three, but the world won't end if she doesn't do so until after you move in a couple of years.

--K

[Linda on the move]

I'm going to be the odd one out. I think it is GREAT that you have an eval scheduled and I think that her lack of social interaction is a flag. Coupled with the sensory issues and anxiety, it *might* mean something.

This is the paragraph I find most troubling:

Originally Posted by marimara

DD, even though she likes the girls, does not play well because one of the girls is really loud and touchy. So we do it just because me and the mom are friends and because at least dd KNOWS her kids, so she has some kind of continuity with them. But dd will only play indirectly with them (on the playground, adult directed, me standing nearby, etc.)

even in a very small group with kids she knows, she isn't interacting with them.

Being where there aren't very many things she can be involved in may be making the problem worse, but it sounds like even if there were more people and activities to chose from, the problem would still be there.

She is very young, and it's possible that she'll outgrow this, but it is something that I think you should be honest with when talking to the evaluator.

I also highly recommend the book Quirky Kids: Understanding and Helping Your Child Who Doesn't Fit In -- When to Worry and When Not to Worry by Klass. It discusses Sensory Integration Dysfunction, Aspergers' etc.

[karanyavel]

I think evalution is reasonable but I do think there's a good chance she'll outgrow it. Of course I'm just speaking from anecdotal evidence, as I was like this and so was my DD, and we both outgrew it by age 5-6.

I wouldn't stress too much over it, though. I wouldn't *personally* get her evaluated based on what you've said, unless these issues persisted through age 6 or so, but that's just me and you should do what you think is right -- you're the mama.

Best of luck.

--K

[marimara]

Well my evaluation packet was supposed to be in the mail this week and it hasn't got here yet anyways. Linda on the move-yeah I agree it is strange that she won't play with C even though she's known her all her life. But C is really loud, touchy/grabby, etc. On the other hand she DOES play with other quiet kids. Her best friend was a girl with Aspergers who didn't talk much at all though. She also plays with her cousins when we visit who are mostly quiet types. If any kid gets loud or yells or cries or tries to grab her she will freak out though. I *do* think she has some sensory issues.

I'm currently reading The Out of Synch Child and The Highly Sensitive Child. They both describe dd but HSC rings more true of the two. It seems that the author of HSC wants to normalize sensory avoidant and sensitive emotional behavior and The OoS child wants to pathologize it. I'm not sure that dd's sensory issues warrant treatment.

If I ever get that packet for the eval I will still consider doing it. But dh and I (sort of agree) that maybe we could wait another 6 months - 1 year and if her "issues" are worse we can ask for an eval then.

I think I might start a new topic somewhere about the differences/overlap of the OsS Child and HSC.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by marimara

If I ever get that packet for the eval I will still consider doing it. But dh and I (sort of agree) that maybe we could wait another 6 months - 1 year and if her "issues" are worse we can ask for an eval then.

it can easily take over a year from the start of the eval process to having the results, so if you want to wait a year, start now.

If you wait a year, you could have answers in 2 years.

It might go faster for you, but for many families it doesn't.

[marimara]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

it can easily take over a year from the start of the eval process to having the results, so if you want to wait a year, start now.

If you wait a year, you could have answers in 2 years.

It might go faster for you, but for many families it doesn't.

Ha, I'm responding to you in 2 different threads

The lady on the phone said she was mailing the packet on Monday and it's like 3 miles away so it should have been here by Friday. So I guess I'll call on Monday if it's not here by then. Also on Mon is dd's 4 yr checkup/shots. So I was planning on asking the ped for a referral to an OT or a Ped Psych.

[Holiztic]

Like karanyavel's DH, I also have social anxiety. I am great at just meeting you, but then I cannot hold a friendship to save my life, I back out of everything and general cannot get myself to stay friends with anyone. I also see my sisters (they are step-sisters, but from when I was a toddler!) a few times a year and don't call them. I am soooo socially inept.

I started daycare at 1, then full time preschool/daycare, school with aftercare. Okay, so maybe I'm the other extreme, but the point is that more early socialization does not mean more ability to have meaningful social relationships!

[LuxPerpetua]

My child (4.75) is very much like yours. Highly, highly sensitive child with sensory issues. At most, we've only done 1 friend at a time, and dd has never wanted more. We do occasional playdates--at most twice a month, usually once a month. Dd tried gymnastics this past summer and although she loves gymnastics (she built her own home gym, climbs everything, jumps on everything, has great balance, etc.), it was just too much structure, which is what my gut told me at the forefront (we're Waldorf-inspired but her one friend's mom talked us into giving it a try). We don't do any structured outside activities now. She occasionally plays with the neighborhood children outside but only if I play too. Part of the issue is that dd has very good language skills herself and has difficulty understanding other kids under age 6. She's always asking me, "What did they say?". I was like this as a child, too, and as an adult I am very introverted. I definitely don't have social anxiety, I just don't really like being around a lot of people. I have always hated big groups. One-on-one I'm great, but in a group, I get overwhelmed. I'm basically saying all of this to let you know that some kids are just not very social at 4. At 4.75 my child is a lot more social than she was last year but she doesn't like kids much at all, she prefers adults. I remember being 5 and wanting to hang out with my teachers at recess instead of playing with the other kids. I think that's okay. I would say to not worry about the social front unless your child asks for a friend or something. If she's happy having transitory encounters with other kids (my child is!) then I would just leave it alone for now. I didn't have a good friend until 6 or so and I think with a healthy child/adult attachment that is quite common. Anyway, I hope you find some answers in your evaluation!

[karanyavel]

Originally Posted by Holiztic

Like karanyavel's DH, I also have social anxiety. I am great at just meeting you, but then I cannot hold a friendship to save my life, I back out of everything and general cannot get myself to stay friends with anyone. I also see my sisters (they are step-sisters, but from when I was a toddler!) a few times a year and don't call them. I am soooo socially inept.

I started daycare at 1, then full time preschool/daycare, school with aftercare. Okay, so maybe I'm the other extreme, but the point is that more early socialization does not mean more ability to have meaningful social relationships!

I wonder, though, if being pushed into social situations before a child is ready might actually make social anxiety worse. Because that is exactly what my husband went through, except that he was put in full-time daycare at 6 weeks old.

I wasn't really ready for other kids until I was 5 or 6, same with DD, and I suspect both of us would have a lot more problems with socialization if we had been in daycare or preschool.

Makes ya wonder...

--K

[marimara]

Originally Posted by karanyavel

I wonder, though, if being pushed into social situations before a child is ready might actually make social anxiety worse. Because that is exactly what my husband went through, except that he was put in full-time daycare at 6 weeks old.

I wasn't really ready for other kids until I was 5 or 6, same with DD, and I suspect both of us would have a lot more problems with socialization if we had been in daycare or preschool.

Makes ya wonder...

--K

This is my gut feeling too.