Nursing: On-and-Off breast every ~3 seconds

[germin8]

I breast feed my DD w/ Medela SNS tube #4 (larger tube). Sometimes she nurses for ~3 seconds, detaches, and reattaches. She does this over and over again. Sometimes I find that the tube is pinched in place. So, I remove it and that helps things along... other times I find she has a poopie diaper, so I change it... other times, she really wants to sleep instead... but sometimes, it's none of those, and she still detaches and reattaches. Anyone know why? Is the milk bad? Is she uncomfortable? I switch her to the other breast, and sometimes she does it there too... but, not always.

[ewe+lamb]

Hi, can you explain a little bit as to why you are using the SNS? Then we can go forward in working things out ...

[germin8]

I have a low milk supply and supplement with donated BM. I use the SNS every time except right before bedtime. She seems to detach more often on the left breast ...and she just did it again, so I switched her and is doing better.

UPDATE: I just discovered a lump under the nipple and posted about it below. Maybe that is the issue... but doesn't explain why DD does it on the right breast... however, not as bad.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...4#post15876424

[ewe+lamb]

OK - do you use a pump at all to help with the low supply? if so maybe the suction on the pump is giving you the lump - it could be too strong if it is a hospital grade pump. Just to continue on from there - who diagnosed you with a low supply? What are you doing to up the supply, you see it's either frustration that milk isn't coming quickly enough which would be surprising with the SNS tube you have or something else there - what was the birth like? Can you describe your first few nursing sessions - did you get any help latching on etc and if so what did they do? Have you been in contact with LLL or a LC (IBCLC) qualified. i know its a lot to answer with a little one but if you can it would be helpful to know what's going on.

[germin8]

Yes, I use the pump with a low supply! I think you are right... that it's the pump!!! I never would have thought of that. Thank you. I used to use the Ameda hospital grade; but now, I use the Medela Freestyle.

An LC directed me to certain websites about low milk supply. My breasts' shape are normal, btw.

My birth? Unmedicated vaginal birth. Labor for a total of 4.5 hours... with no prior Braxton Hicks and breast changes during pregnancy. I didn't get the "surge" of hormones and overwhelming love/excitement I heard about on "The Business of Being Born"... maybe I have hormone issues w/ oxytocin? My prolactin level is good... off the charts... but that's probably because of the domperidone.

When my DD was born, I took the whole 2 hours of second stage labor. She was put directly on me when she came out. We waited some time before my DH cut the chord. Then, off they went... It was a few hours before my baby was given to me to nurse. She had a strong suck. The LC even commented on it. But, I couldn't feel or tell anything was coming out... however, my uterus was contracting... so something was working! An LC helped us out and I started pumping with a hospital grade pump. It took a while to pump colostrum out and once we did, we stopped pumping and asked for our DD. I did pump from ~day 3 after every nursing session for 6 weeks... slowed down to 2 pumping sessions a day... and now, I'm back to 4-5 pumping sessions a day. (my DD is 3 months now) My milk (hand expressed or pumped) comes out like a slow trickle, not a water fall or spray... it is a lot of effort/suction to get that out. And, my DD can get about an ounce out WITH the SNS. But, if I just put her to breast w/o SNS, she is not interested. So, I pump and can get 1-2 ozs w/ the pump alone... why?!?!?! It seems I have both a low supply and slow flow. When I squeeze the nipple, only one duct/hole/whatever-the-term-is squirts out. It only happens once and then it is just slow. And, I know the baby has a better way of getting the milk out, but I seriously believe my slow flow to be a PROBLEM.

I can pump 1-2 oz of breast milk... but, my DD won't suckle it out of me b/c my flow is slow. *grumble*

I'm thinking of re-visiting an LC. But, I just don't see what "new" thing they can teach me... I have tried just about everything in the Mother Food book (except alfalfa leef, Guinness beer, and 'straight' fenugreek instead of tincture). Really... what more can they do for me? I guess I am just discouraged... but, I haven't given up!

[ewe+lamb]

http://www.makingmoremilk.com/
there is the book as well which may help you.

Do get in contact with LLL as well, just being surrounded by other mothers who breastfeed can boost your morale - which I'm sensing you need - I'm wondering if you are anxious when you are nursing or about to nurse/pump - if you wonder how she's going to react this time, are you going to pump enough all these things can play a part too, does this ring a bell at all?

Have you tried this too, www.biologicalnurturing.com it's a great website and could help you with the on/off the breast stuff too.

Other things such as carrying baby in sling or wrap or anything that you can breastfeed at the same time could help, offer as much as you can even when you don't think she'll take any more, you never know she may just stimulate your breast just that little bit longer and then it's all good.

hang in there, you're going to get through this, there are ways around that we find to work out our difficulties, surround yourself with supportive, loving and caring people - that's really important too. keep posting and we'll try and help as much as possible .... a bientot!!

[ewe+lamb]

my reply in red!!

Originally Posted by germin8

Yes, I use the pump with a low supply! I think you are right... that it's the pump!!! I never would have thought of that. Thank you. I used to use the Ameda hospital grade; but now, I use the Medela Freestyle. Yeah may just need to adjust the suction strenth on the pump and reduce it a little.

An LC directed me to certain websites about low milk supply. My breasts' shape are normal, btw. Are your breasts widely spaced? This can be indicative of milk supply - your LC may be able to help you out there.

My birth? Unmedicated vaginal birth. Labor for a total of 4.5 hours... with no prior Braxton Hicks and breast changes during pregnancy. I didn't get the "surge" of hormones and overwhelming love/excitement I heard about on "The Business of Being Born"... maybe I have hormone issues w/ oxytocin? My prolactin level is good... off the charts... but that's probably because of the domperidone. Don't worry about the love that you say you didn't feel - it doesn't hit everyone and we can feel alittle decieved sometimes expecting certain things to happen after or during birth or breastfeeding and when they don't happen it really can create a hole - not everyone feels this surge of love immediately it can take hours, days weeks, months or even years but your love for your baby is certainly there otherwise you wouldn't be going to all the trouble you are for her - never doubt yourself or your emotions

When my DD was born, I took the whole 2 hours of second stage labor. She was put directly on me when she came out. We waited some time before my DH cut the chord. Then, off they went... It was a few hours before my baby was given to me to nurse. She had a strong suck. The LC even commented on it. But, I couldn't feel or tell anything was coming out... however, my uterus was contracting... so something was working! Alot of newborns have a strong suck to begin with - it's the stimulation thing that they need to get all the colostrum out so that your body can prepare for the milk that's going to be coming inAn LC helped us out and I started pumping with a hospital grade pump. It took a while to pump colostrum out and once we did, we stopped pumping and asked for our DD. I did pump from ~day 3 after every nursing session for 6 weeks... slowed down to 2 pumping sessions a day... and now, I'm back to 4-5 pumping sessions a day. (my DD is 3 months now) My milk (hand expressed or pumped) comes out like a slow trickle, not a water fall or spray... it is a lot of effort/suction to get that out. And, my DD can get about an ounce out WITH the SNS. But, if I just put her to breast w/o SNS, she is not interested. So, I pump and can get 1-2 ozs w/ the pump alone... why?!?!?! It seems I have both a low supply and slow flow. When I squeeze the nipple, only one duct/hole/whatever-the-term-is squirts out. It only happens once and then it is just slow. And, I know the baby has a better way of getting the milk out, but I seriously believe my slow flow to be a PROBLEM. Yes you could be onto something here, but then the more baby is at the breast even with the SNS the better, she is also quite an eater - if the biggest SNS tube isn't satisfying her, so with a slow flow and a baby who wants a fast one - it can be a tricky situation

I can pump 1-2 oz of breast milk... but, my DD won't suckle it out of me b/c my flow is slow. *grumble* You're allowed to grumble - no one could say that you can't - you are doing a fantastic job

I'm thinking of re-visiting an LC. But, I just don't see what "new" thing they can teach me... I have tried just about everything in the Mother Food book (except alfalfa leef, Guinness beer, and 'straight' fenugreek instead of tincture). Really... what more can they do for me? I guess I am just discouraged... but, I haven't given up!

Before going to an LC - if you feel like you've tried everything - see about going to a LLL meeting as I mentioned before - it could be the support that you just need along with information of other mothers who have been through something similar.

[germin8]

Awww, thank you. I needed to 'hear' that.

My breasts are not widely spaced... but, I hear you can still have IGT with normal breasts! However, the fact that I can pump 2 oz in <20 minutes, means I can hold 2 oz! I would think that means I have enough glandular tissue. ...unless the glands aren't big enough to flow faster? (I don't know what I'm talking about... hehe...)

Thank you for those websites.

I'm buying that book right now!

[ewe+lamb]

Ok just one last thought - have you had your baby's mouth looked at - I mean really looked at for ties, palate problems? If you are pumping 2oz at a time it may not be an actual 'supply' issue it may simply be a transferral problem and it may have been that that has in turn caused the supply issues - ok just a suggestion - but worth thinking about.

[germin8]

Thank you for your thoughts and input.

I don't think there is anything wrong w/ DD's mouth since she can suckle very well between 3A and 5A when we get the best supply... and I can just see her and hear her swallowing well on both breasts. It doesn't happen every night... but it happens often enough... thus, I think her mouth is okay.

Thanks again for your thoughts and advice!