Rush Limbaugh speaks out against breastfeeding - Page 2

[JessicaS]

From the CDC

Breastfeeding and Obesity Prevention

Indian Health Services

American Diabetes Association

A list of links from LLL

http://www.llli.org/cbi/bibobesity.html

[Sustainer]

I'm wondering if there's a semantics issue here. Is it understood that when we talk about breastfeeding preventing obesity, we're not claiming that no breastfed baby will become obese? Simply that it reduces the risk of obesity. Is anyone on this thread denying that it reduces the risk?

(Am I allowed to point out that formula contains high fructose corn syrup?)

[annettemarie]

Some formulas contain HFCS, and yes, that's fine to point out.

And I do think your point is a good one that gets missed sometimes-- saying statistically that A reduces the risk of B often gets interpreted as A prevents B, which are two totally different claims. It's a good reminder that we as breastfeeding advocates need to choose our words carefully!

[Arduinna]

Well I wish every child was breastfed and a part of me wishes that formula required a rx to get but that is probably subject for another thread. I just have a healthy skepticism of studies in general regardless of subject matter.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Well I wish every child was breastfed and a part of me wishes that formula required a rx to get but that is probably subject for another thread. I just have a healthy skepticism of studies in general regardless of subject matter.

There have been some articles that have refuted that research but they were written by the formula counsel so I do take that with a huge big enormous grain of salt.

IMO there is enough evidence that supports those claims.

[Sustainer]

I don't generally rely on studies myself. I place more importance on what makes sense to me. But Rush isn't simply saying that he's skeptical of the research. He's saying that breastfeeding DOES NOT prevent obesity. He's *ridiculing* Michelle Obama for promoting breastfeeding as a way of reducing childhood obesity.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Sustainer

I don't generally rely on studies myself. I place more importance on what makes sense to me. But Rush isn't simply saying that he's skeptical of the research. He's saying that breastfeeding DOES NOT prevent obesity. He's *ridiculing* Michelle Obama for promoting breastfeeding as a way of reducing childhood obesity.

I don't think it is ok to call a woman "MOO" because she is talking about breastfeeding. I don't care who she is. IMO to talk about women like that is sexist and gross.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by abimommy

There have been some articles that have refuted that research but they were written by the formula counsel so I do take that with a huge big enormous grain of salt.

IMO there is enough evidence that supports those claims.

That's great, I'm not saying others can't make their own decisions regarding the studies. I just don't think that not believing them by definition makes me anti BFing. That was my point. I object to the blanket statement. There are tons of other reasons to be pro BFing, this one argument doesn't negate those or the conclusion that BFing is best.

[mum4vr]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Saying that breastfeeding decreasing obesity is a myth is absolutely an anti-breastfeeding statement, regardless of what else he was harping on.

There are many things I am for and that I support, that do not decrease obesity.

Originally Posted by abimommy

From the CDC

Breastfeeding and Obesity Prevention

Indian Health Services

American Diabetes Association

A list of links from LLL

http://www.llli.org/cbi/bibobesity.html

Thanks for these links! I will check them out.

That said, just bc there is a positive correlation between BF and lower obesity does not mean that BF decreases the risk of obesity... I mean there is a positive correlation between increased ice cream sales and increased drowning deaths, but ice cream does not cause drowning (um... they both happen seasonally in summer!)

I admit I have taken only a brief look at the actual stats on this, but IMO BF does not so much decrease the risk of obesity as formula INCREASES the risk of obesity! It is NOT the same thing. BF is the norm for mammal infant food, deviant sources of infant mammal food carry risks (formula). This seems like a more balanced interpretation of the data presented, including not only these recent studies, but also centuries during which childhood obesity and type 2 diabetes was almost unheard of. What are these stats like in non-human mammals NOT in captivity (and not forced to eat human garbage bc their habitats have disappeared)?

Before I decide that I definitely think BF decreases the risk of obesity, I'd want to compare groups that were neither BF nor formula fed, like babies raised on goat's or sheep's (or in some countries camel's) milk. Anecdotally, I think obesity is quite rare in these groups as well, both in childhood and adulthood.

Of course, I see raw milk (same species whenever possible) as a practically miraculous superfood. Still, before I'd say it decreases risk of a disease or disease-related tendancy, I want all the angles covered.

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Well I wish every child was breastfed and a part of me wishes that formula required a rx to get but that is probably subject for another thread. I just have a healthy skepticism of studies in general regardless of subject matter.

hear hear!

Originally Posted by abimommy

I don't think it is ok to call a woman "MOO" because she is talking about breastfeeding. I don't care who she is. IMO to talk about women like that is sexist and gross.

agreed

blessings

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by abimommy

I don't think it is ok to call a woman "MOO" because she is talking about breastfeeding. I don't care who she is. IMO to talk about women like that is sexist and gross.

I thought he was saying MOOCH el, as in, to mooch. I never even thought of the MOO part!

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

I thought he was saying MOOCH el, as in, to mooch. I never even thought of the MOO part!

Oh you might be right.

[smeep]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Some formulas contain HFCS, and yes, that's fine to point out.

And I do think your point is a good one that gets missed sometimes-- saying statistically that A reduces the risk of B often gets interpreted as A prevents B, which are two totally different claims. It's a good reminder that we as breastfeeding advocates need to choose our words carefully!

Personally, I stay away from saying breastfeeding prevents or reduces anything. I prefer to word things as, "NOT breastfeeding increases the risk of..."

[smeep]

Originally Posted by mum4vr

I admit I have taken only a brief look at the actual stats on this, but IMO BF does not so much decrease the risk of obesity as formula INCREASES the risk of obesity! It is NOT the same thing. BF is the norm for mammal infant food, deviant sources of infant mammal food carry risks (formula).

Thank you! This is what I have been saying for years! It really bothers me how someone can be so pro-breastfeeding promote it by saying it has benefits. Talking about benefits do very little good because everyone assumes it to be the BEST and therefore formula must be "just fine" or "good." No one can be the best at everything...so that kind of makes the perfect "out."

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by smeep

Personally, I stay away from saying breastfeeding prevents or reduces anything. I prefer to word things as, "NOT breastfeeding increases the risk of..."

That's actually a good point.

[Sustainer]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

That's great, I'm not saying others can't make their own decisions regarding the studies. I just don't think that not believing them by definition makes me anti BFing. That was my point. I object to the blanket statement. There are tons of other reasons to be pro BFing, this one argument doesn't negate those or the conclusion that BFing is best.

I think the remark was directed at the original anti-bf quote. I doubt any of us would say to another, "Well, you may be a lactivist in every other respect, but if you don't believe this stat you're anti-bf." I think the point was that, in this case, the quote is in the context of a generally negative attitude toward breastfeeding. There was nothing to suggest that there was any pro-bf sentiment from him. In other words, if Rush had said, "don't get me wrong, there are lots of other good reasons to consider breastfeeding important, but I just don't think this is one of them" (like you said), then I don't think the resulting comment would have been made. But in the context of this particular speaker, it does seem to me to be evidence that he is anti-bf. That's the way he comes across, from every sentence in his assertion.

Originally Posted by mum4vr

IMO BF does not so much decrease the risk of obesity as formula INCREASES the risk of obesity!

I think you are quite right that formula causes obesity much more than breastmilk itself prevents it. But in this society, if a baby isn't breastfed, he is generally fed formula, so in a way it almost amounts to the same thing... although I completely agree that it's more accurate to phrase it "formula increases the risk of obesity."

Originally Posted by smeep

Personally, I stay away from saying breastfeeding prevents or reduces anything. I prefer to word things as, "NOT breastfeeding increases the risk of..."

I do agree with this. Definitely. It is more appropriate to phrase it the "increased risk" way, and we should try to phrase it in such a way as much as possible.

No one can be the best at everything...so that kind of makes the perfect "out."

Exactly. I usually make a point of phrasing it "formula increases this risk" or "refraining from breastfeeding increases that risk," but in this thread I was responding to a particular quote and I didn't make an issue out of which way the response was worded.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Mackenzie

His argument doesn't even make sense.

Does it ever?

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

I thought he was saying MOOCH el, as in, to mooch. I never even thought of the MOO part!

That's the way I took it also.

The only "plus" to this is the only people who listen to this man are old men. Not going to be breastfeeding any time soon

Maybe these statements will do more harm to his 'cause' than good. Like I didn't know Michele Obama was supporting breastfeeding. I like her even more now then ever. She had scored MAJOR brownie points with me for the huge garden on the white house lawn I think she is my generation's Jackie Kennedy!

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Sustainer

But in the context of this particular speaker, it does seem to me to be evidence that he is anti-bf. That's the way he comes across, from every sentence in his assertion.

To be anti-bf would mean that he is against women bf. Though he may not be supportive of measures that mandate others accommodate breastfeeding (such as a law requiring employers to provide a room for pumping) that doesn't mean that he is against the act breastfeeding--though we tend to say here that if one is not accommodating of bf than you are against it because not accommodating it can contribute to its cessation. There have been other public figures commented on here that have actually called breastfeeding gross or obscene, or that breast are for men not babies.

[Jenne]

Originally Posted by kriket

The only "plus" to this is the only people who listen to this man are old men. Not going to be breastfeeding any time soon

I not only was *listening* to his show when this came up, but I'm a *regular* listener.

If one was a regular listener one would know that one of Rush's soapboxes and regular talking points is how much money the US spends on researching obesity. One would know that he is a large man who has struggled with his weight. One would know that one of his goals is to prove that the only way to prevent obesity and lose weight is to eat less. He has talked a ton about how exercise doesn't cause weight loss, for example. He is all about personal responsibilty ie whether or not one breastfeeds their child, one could raise an obese kid if they fed them McDs every meal.

A pp (Catheryn?) I think nailed it straight on...
I also agree with EmmelineII that it is more about the government intrusion then the act.

Moochelle is his longstanding nickname for the President's wife. It has nothing to do with breastfeeding.

Rush will occassionally hit on topics like this. One of the reasons this one came up was because of his recent discussion of Obamacare. There is an entire section on breastfeeding in the bill. If it wasn't in the bill I doubt it would even have made a blip on his radar because he isn't a woman and he doesn't have kids.

Anyway, my guess is if he got a lot of feedback pointing out how fiscally conservative breastfeeding is he might be swayed to the "dark" side. But then again, he doesn't believe in special rights and nursing mothers are certainly that. So, maybe not. Either way, *I* don't think as a political entertainer that there is any woman (and there are many in his regular listening audience) that will make her decision to breastfeed or not based on his comments.

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by Jenne

Either way, *I* don't think as a political entertainer that there is any woman (and there are many in his regular listening audience) that will make her decision to breastfeed or not based on his comments.

Maybe not. But one of the biggest factors in whether a woman breastfeeds, and whether she continues to breastfeed past a few days or weeks, is how supportive the people around her are. Including the men in her life-- her partner, her father, her father-in-law, her brothers. And if they're listening, their attitudes are being swayed. We know already that very often when a woman gives up breastfeeding, it's because the people around her are either not knowledgeable, or not supportive, or are downright hostile about it.

[Jenne]

Llyra- I totally see your point. Absolutely.

But overall, I guess I like to give women as a whole more credit in this regard then others sometimes do.

It was very important to me to find a partner who was positive about my breastfeeding. I completely agree that having a positive, supportive partner would be crucial for most women. I can also agree that close friends and the mother's parents/in-law (if they are around on a regular basis) being supportive could be important.

I just can't truck with the idea that what some out-of-touch hollywood actress, a tv commentator (whether on The View or the nightly news), or a political entertainer (which is relevant to this discussion) says a word about breastfeeding or formula is important.

I guess I think that having a pediatrician, Ob/Gyn, or other consistent healthcare provider with awful information is far more destructive. Or cover-up marketing disguised as "helpful" developmental stages arriving in one's mailbox. These are some of the things I can see as being detrimental to nursing. Because these are things giving direct advice to a woman from a source she probably has trust in.

But again, I think by writing to Rush and letting him know about the cost savings that some women experience by breast feeding and the social/emotional benefits of breastfeeding that is the way to, from a lactivist standpoint and imo, to approach this issue EFFECTIVELY with this particular person. He is geared towards fiscal responsibility and preservation of the family. Breastfeeding can hook in nicely, I think, with both of those ideals.

Jenne