Hate being a parent these days

[Astraia]

I think this is more of a rant than anything. I've read through the other threads here and am seeing other parents in the same boat as me (maybe?) and have tried all the advice provided to no avail.

I'm exhausted and horribly sleep deprived. I'm awoken on average 10-15 times per 8 hour night, each time being awake for 20 min-2 hr. Some nights I get one to sleep (sometimes a long, drawn out, frustrating process) just in time for the other to wake up.

Orrin sleeps in our room in a Pack N Play (I can't co sleep any more, it makes my skin crawl to be touching someone all night), and Nigella is in her own room in a double bed. We've tried the family bed. We've tried them both in the same room, without me. We've tried all of us in separate rooms.

I've try not nursing when they wake up at night, and it turns a 30 minute waking into a 2 hour scream-fest, and then they whine and cling all day as a result. I try having my husband go in to soothe whichever other child is waking up, and they scream blue murder- not to mention that the hassle of getting my husband up and out of bed sometimes takes more time then settling them myself. I've pushed him out of our bed and onto the floor just to have him curl up and keep snoring. He is an incredibly heavy sleeper. He also works some morning shift, some evening shift, and some night shift so a lot of the time he isn't even home.

I've tried Jay Gordon, No Cry Sleep Solution, and some nights they end up crying by themselves for awhile because I just can't do it any more.

I can easily say I haven't slept more than 3 hours in a row since Nigella was born nearly 2 years ago.

I can't nap, because no one here will nap at the same time. If anyone tries to give me a break (DH, MIL) I can't sleep because of insomnia. If by some miracle the kids don't wake up in tandem then DH gets home from work and starts grabbing at me and wants to start a lil somethin' (not knowing that I've been awake for the last 3 hours and am *THIS* close to throwing things and screaming) or the dog decides he MUST go out RIGHT AWAY.

I don't know what to do- other than move back to my mom's for a week WITHOUT the kids.

Someone alerted me to the fact that we could be dealing with food intolerences (they both started sleeping worse once we started solids) so we're going to go dairy and wheat/gluten free starting tomorrow. If there's no difference in 2 weeks then I'll try something else.

I've also been considering going to a dr to get a prescription for an antidepressant. Maybe I can treat the mood even if I can't fix the problem causing the mood.

[bonamarq]

So sorry to hear this - yes you NEED support in whatever form you can get it - I highly recommend you see your doctor about this - you clearly cannot go on in this state

I always had a hard time napping when others were taking care of dd - unless they left the house - what if dh took the kids to your MIL? and you just rested a while?

Sounds like you have two tough cases on your hands and I'm sorry the co-sleeping thing isn't working I don't know what I'd have done if I couldn't do that...

I'm sorry I don't have much advice that you haven't already thought of yourself - but please get some help....

[Louisep]

Gosh, I really hope someone comes in with some btdt advice for you. Can you perhaps work on one of the kids first - it's too daunting trying to get both to sleep okay at the same time.

Definitely look into food allergies - your daughter is old enough to be tested I think? So start with her. Does she have her 2 year molars? If it were me (and it's not, so disregard but it's well intended), I would have my mother come to stay and night wean the oldest.

I had (still have as a result) insomnia issues and the only time I could ever get extra sleep guaranteed was first thing in the morning, just as every one wants to get up. Can you have someone come and help you for a bit and have them take your children in the morning for 2-3 hours so you can replenish some reserves? Put a white noise fan in your room, put in ear plugs, wear an eye mask and sleep uninterrupted.

I'm so sorry, this sounds so hard. I only had to go through it with one.

[Three~Little~Birds]

I feel your pain. That was me, too, a couple of years ago - and still now but not as much. It will get better, gradually, but you need to make it through until then.
I agree with the advice to tackle your eldest daughters sleep issues first. One thing at a time. I also agree that there are likely food intolerances, too. If you do an elimination diet, you also might want to consider soy. You'll have to eliminate the foods, too, as they'll get them through breastmilk. I am sure that you have checked out the allergy forums here already, but if not, you should; they are great.
It can seem overwhelming to tackle a project like night weaning or elimination diets when your reserves are so depleted.
I think that I'd tackle the food issues first, if not only to rule it out. That way, if you decide to nightwean it will either go easier once the foods are emilinated, or else you won't be wondering if she has something physical/neurological bothering her.
You are also in the thick of it motherting-wise. Haviing two little ones so close in age is hard. It will get easier, though.
Good luck, Mama.

[Learning_Mum]

No long term solutions, but short term, could you go see your doctor and get some sleeping pills and have your DH do night duties for a couple of nights while you sleep?

I know it's not very crunchy to suggest but as someone who suffers from depression, that is aggrivated by sleep deprivation, not having enough sleep can make things terrible. Sleeping pills can be awesome for just knocking you out and you wake up feeling refreshed.

[Astraia]

Originally Posted by Louisep

If it were me (and it's not, so disregard but it's well intended), I would have my mother come to stay and night wean the oldest.

My mom and MIL get way more frustrated than I do, so I don't think it'd work... it'd be nice though!

We've tried nightweaning (for my daughter) and she is a totally different kid the next day- in a bad way. Screaming, clinging, asking to nurse all day and having a fit if I have to put her down for a minute to nurse the other kid. I'm not sure which is worse- waking up 3-5 times with her at night, or being attached to her every waking hour. It has been about 6 months since we last tried, so it's probably worth it to try again. Even if she just reduces night nursing/wakings to 1x/night I'd be ahead.

Originally Posted by Three~Little~Birds

I agree with the advice to tackle your eldest daughters sleep issues first. One thing at a time. I also agree that there are likely food intolerances, too. If you do an elimination diet, you also might want to consider soy.

It can seem overwhelming to tackle a project like night weaning or elimination diets when your reserves are so depleted.

I think that I'd tackle the food issues first, if not only to rule it out. That way, if you decide to nightwean it will either go easier once the foods are emilinated, or else you won't be wondering if she has something physical/neurological bothering her.

We already avoid all soy. It kinda scares me.

I can't tell which I'm hoping for- allergies or not. Part of me doesn't want to even try this in case it ends up being permanent. It's hard enough to think what to make for meals without considering allergies.

I like your suggestion to do allergies first. I've been wondering for probably almost a year if we should be doing some elimination; there's a big history of food intolerances on both sides of the family.

Originally Posted by Learning_Mum

No long term solutions, but short term, could you go see your doctor and get some sleeping pills and have your DH do night duties for a couple of nights while you sleep?.

That's not a bad idea, either. A few nights of good sleep- heck, even 1- would probably make me feel like a new person.


Thanks everyone for your words of support.

Things always look better in the light of day. I had a couple of moments last night where I thought I was seriously going to lose it- almost called my husband home from work- but today I feel ok. We went to see my MIL and she did the bulk of the chasing after kids while I had a couple of cups of tea so I'm feeling calmer.

I'm on my own as my husband left early this morning and won't be home until late tomorrow night. We'll discuss things Sunday and see what we can work out. I feel like he's not taking me seriously when I say, "I am REALLY really tired" or "I'm not feeling so good these days. I think I really hate everything."

I don't want to tell him how I'm really feeling though, because then he might think I'm crazy or a bad mom or something like that (which... I might be. These days, it's definitely possible).

[Astraia]

Well, I was up for 4 hours straight last night...One kid, then the other, then the first, then them both, then the first one fell asleep finally. Add that into the other usual wakings before and after that and I'm ready to pack my bags and just get out.

Dairy and gluten free- it's REALLY hard! I haven't had a successful day yet.

Might end up just night weaning anyway.

8 months is too young to night wean, right? SIGH.

Days like today, I'm considering weaning cold turkey. To hell with it.

[Hannah32]

Originally Posted by Astraia

Days like today, I'm considering weaning cold turkey. To hell with it.

I'm all for breastfeeding, but if you really feel that way, I don't think it's wrong to consider it. You need to be able to function. Do what you have to do and don't feel bad about it.

[marybethorama]

Sleep deprivation is torture. You should not have to suffer like this. I'm a huge believer/advocate of meetings kids' needs at night, but I think in situations like yours, nursing on demand is just not working, and another solution should be found.

I think you need to do whatever you can to take care of yourself. Call on all resources you can find.

Good Luck.

[ACsMom]

Originally Posted by Astraia

8 months is too young to night wean, right? SIGH.

Wondering that, myself. In a similar boat with 8m/o and 4y/o. The night-waking see-saw. Astraia, hang in there. I think going to the doc is a good idea. Hope you're able to get a little rest, and soon. To help your dh take you seriously, get specific. Say things like, "I'm so tired I don't feel safe to drive, especially with the kids in the car" and "I'm on the road to a break-down of some kind and here are some ideas I have for making sure that doesn't happen - can you help by....?" And tell him exactly what you need him to do. This works with my dh, anyway.

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by marybethorama

Sleep deprivation is torture. You should not have to suffer like this. I'm a huge believer/advocate of meetings kids' needs at night, but I think in situations like yours, nursing on demand is just not working, and another solution should be found.

I think you need to do whatever you can to take care of yourself. Call on all resources you can find.

Good Luck.

This.
Is there anyone who could watch them for a night while you go somewhere else and take a long hot bath and get a good nights sleep?

[D_McG]

Can you take the baby away for a long weekend and leave your older child with your DH? I'd be interested to see if on the 2nd or 3rd night she sleeps better. I left my kids with my DH at about a year and by the end of the weekend they were sleeping much much better.

If you give nightweaning a really good try (like, a week of being consistent) with no improvements then maybe a sleep study is in order?

[EnchantedMamma]

It's quite possible that the kids do not have any true sleep problems and that the problem you really need to address is yours.

I too have sleep/insomnia issues that leave me at my wit's end.

An anxiety RX to quiet my brain is the best solution for me. It's allowed me to have a lot more patience for a LOT longer and now my son seems to have pretty healthy sleep habits.

[Astraia]

Thanks everyone for all your replies and support.

We were going to try nightweaning tonight, as DH has the next 3 days off, but somehow in the middle of the night DD developed a really really nasty cold, she's coughing and wheezing and sounds terrible. So nevermind, we'll try it next week if she's better by then.

I keep thinking, "just another week or two, and then I'll be able to sleep" and that's helping. I was up a long time last night with Nigella, but knowing there's a definite end to this is good.

DH is also on board. I tried to tell him this is really bad, but I started bawling in the middle and didn't need to actually say anything for him to realize I'm serious.

D_McG- I was thinking about bringing the baby with me to MIL's and sleeping there for a couple of nights while DH and DD figure out their routine. I know I'll be tied up in horrible guilty knots all night if DD is crying with him. At least if I'm gone I won't have any crazy urge to "help."

Enchanted Mama - Waking every 2 hours-ish is something I would consider normal- heck, I HAVE been considering it normal for nearly 2 years now! We're talking waking every hour, sometimes less than that. I'm talking being awake as the kids cycle awake- Nigella is up for 30 min, I just get back to bed then Orrin wakes up, I just get him settled and back in bed and then Nigella is up again. I think that each kid waking 5-15 times in an 8 hour period to be just a *little* excessive.

I agree that I have some insomnia issues that making napping nearly impossible for me. I have a lot on my mind and on my plate and feel pressure to get things done. It usually takes me about 20 min to fall asleep, but from something I was reading that's normal and healthy.

But I don't think that wanting to sleep for more than 20 minutes at a stretch is unreasonable. And I don't care what kind meds I might get on, if I am being woken up an average of 17 times per night- there's a problem.

Sorry if that sounded snappish... I've been awake since 4!

[D_McG]

You're not asking for too much

The kind of waking you're describing might well have some medical basis. Do they snore? Do they have normal stooling and eating patterns?

Originally Posted by Astraia

D_McG- I was thinking about bringing the baby with me to MIL's and sleeping there for a couple of nights while DH and DD figure out their routine. I know I'll be tied up in horrible guilty knots all night if DD is crying with him. At least if I'm gone I won't have any crazy urge to "help."

Instrumental in my 'success' at nightweaning my kids was my attitude. You really can't feel guilty. I mean of course I felt bad that they cried but kids WILL pick up if you are acting as if you're doing something wrong. You're NOT doing anything wrong. Some kids really do not sleep well while nursing. It disturbs their sleep (both of my kids outgrew their ability to nurse peacefully at night). To stop nursing them at night then is the right thing to do. It's a positive step in the right direction. You're leading them to where they need to be for THEIR health.

Of course, if may not help. But you at least will have given it your best shot, right? Your little girl will take the lead from you!

[Astraia]

Originally Posted by D_McG

You're not asking for too much

The kind of waking you're describing might well have some medical basis. Do they snore? Do they have normal stooling and eating patterns?

Eating- Nigella hardly eats anything most days, but nurses all night to make up for it. Orrin eats very well. Neither of them snore. They are both totally capable of sleeping with 1-2 wake ups per night- they've done it. Something happens that gets them into the habit (sickness, teething) and then they're stuck doing it until something changes those habits.

Originally Posted by D_McG

Instrumental in my 'success' at nightweaning my kids was my attitude. You really can't feel guilty. I mean of course I felt bad that they cried but kids WILL pick up if you are acting as if you're doing something wrong. You're NOT doing anything wrong. Some kids really do not sleep well while nursing. It disturbs their sleep (both of my kids outgrew their ability to nurse peacefully at night). To stop nursing them at night then is the right thing to do. It's a positive step in the right direction. You're leading them to where they need to be for THEIR health.

Of course, if may not help. But you at least will have given it your best shot, right? Your little girl will take the lead from you!

Thank you for this, you are very correct. I need to change my thinking. Obviously if it doesn't work or leads to extreme distress then we'll call it a fair shot and try something else instead, but there's no guilt in trying to help everyone sleep better- especially if it leads to better moods during the day, and an involved and patient mama.

[D_McG]

Neither of my kids at much until I nightweaned them! It was a bad scene. Kids should be busy and eating during the day. And SLEEPING at night. I swore I'd nightwean my second at a year but I didn't do it until 20 mos. Let's see if I'll do a better job with #3