More school vents... PLEASE tell me if I am being unreasonable...**UPDATE post 16**

[Mackenzie]

Thanks to all who have given input on my concerns with my daughter...Now I have a couple of concerns with my boys school and would like some objectivity on if my expectations are asinine or not...

DS #2, first grade: His class is on teacher #3 for this year (they started school August 11). We got notice when teacher #2 took over and a phone call from that teacher introducing herself. When teacher #3 took over, we didn't get any notification from the school. It wasn't until after I asked DS daily for a week and a half if his teacher was back that the told me that Teacher #3 told him she was his teacher for the year. I emailed the principal inquiring and he sent a note home the next day. Since this teacher has taken over Macario (ds) has gotten a "reteach" letter sent home every day nearly. These have mostly been for talking (usually when he is done with his work) and one for "pushing another student" (which was actually that he moved the students had away from the slide so he could go down... but w.e. He needs to keep his hands to himself regardless). I do not doubt for a second that he talks at inappropriate times. He does get done with his work fast and he gets bored. However, what I was having a hard time believing is that he would do this ignoring redirection from his teacher. Considering that "reteach" is not even a noun, I have no idea what constitutes one but I figured that for it to be severe enough to have a full size paper sent home on the daily about it, it had to be an ignored correction. I did ask my boys and they said that there is no warning or number of reminders, that its a "reteach" if they are told once. That peeves me, if it is the case. I honestly don't care. Reserve the requests for at home correction for severe issues. On the one that I signed this morning, I asked for clarification. I asked if he gets a note sent home the first time that he is corrected or if it is only after multiple reminders. Her return note said that a "reteach" is anytime a behavior is retaught... Uhm.... thanks. That really tells me nothing. So, my issues here are 1. Poor communication/clarification from Teacher #3 and 2. Daily notifications of minor wrongs my (obviously bored) first grade child has committed...


DS1, 4th grade: I signed him up for orchestra through the school within the first few weeks of school. I never heard anything about it, when he was going to get the instrument (the information said that the school had them), if there was anything that I was going to need to do or anything. I didn't worry about it for a couple of weeks thinking that they were getting things ready. I began asking Damiyan if he had been told anything and he said no, that some kids go somewhere that he thinks may be orchestra but he wasn't sure. He said he would ask his teacher. He forgot so I emailed her at the beginning of the week. She didn't get back to me so I emailed again this morning saying- Hey I emailed. Maybe you didn't get it or something. Here it is just in case... yadda yadday blah. She emailed me tonight saying that its Mondays and Wednesdays and he must forget to go. Uhm.... in what world is a 4th grader solely responsible for their whereabouts at school? What if he "forgot" to come in for lunch, or get on the bus home? Shouldn't a teacher be ultimately responsible for making sure students are where they are supposed to be?


So...those are my issues... I am very frustrated with this school year so far. I really wish I was in a place to home school again or have them go to private school at the least (and I am actually looking into what kind of financial aid we may be able to get for that... the only private school that is acceptable to me aka non religious, would cost me about 50k a year for my three).

[Wild Lupine]

Here's my take, as someone who has worked in public schools for a long time:

Originally Posted by Mackenzie

1. Poor communication/clarification from Teacher #3 and 2. Daily notifications of minor wrongs my (obviously bored) first grade child has committed...

Taking over mid-year after one teacher is hard. Taking over after mid-year after two teachers is brutal. I'd hate that job assignment!

It may be that the school is instituting a new policy of 'notify parents of every.little.thing' (perhaps because some parents complained that they didn't find out about issues soon enough and the school is swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction). Or it may be that the teacher is new to the profession and still figuring out classroom management techniques. Meaning she doesn't yet know what to do with students who finish early, doesn't know what's a big deal and what's not, doesn't yet know what needs to be communicated to parents nor has she figured out the best way to do it. This stuff isn't generally taught in teacher education programs and is generally learned on the job. You may find she is a very different teacher at the end of the year once she's figured all this stuff out.

Your big issue here is that there have been 3 teachers in a very short space of time. It's rare for a teacher to leave mid-year. It does happen, people get sick, decide the job isn't for them, do something horrible and get fired, but it's rare. In ten years of teaching in several different public schools I've seen it happen maybe three times (excluding maternity leaves). What's up with this turn-over? Maybe it's an unfortunate coincidence of illnesses, but more likely something is going on in the school atmosphere that's making for such a high turn-over. If this were my child's class I'd be making an appointment with the principal to discuss why there's been such a turn over and what the school is doing to support the new teacher.

The discipline isn't what you want it to be, though it could be much worse, honestly. At least it's there (meaning recess isn't a Lord of the Flies free for all). Some questions to consider when figuring out if this is a good class for DS are: is your son being treated fairly, that is, are the other students also getting similar treatment? Is he learning? Is the classroom a generally comfortable atmosphere? That's the stuff that will affect him in the long term, the notes home for the small stuff will probably be forgotten if the big stuff is happening as it should.

Originally Posted by Mackenzie

She emailed me tonight saying that its Mondays and Wednesdays and he must forget to go. Uhm.... in what world is a 4th grader solely responsible for their whereabouts at school? What if he "forgot" to come in for lunch, or get on the bus home? Shouldn't a teacher be ultimately responsible for making sure students are where they are supposed to be?

Yes, I agree that DS should have been directed to go to orchestra at the designated time. But given all teachers need to be responsible for I can understand how one child might have been forgotten. Not that it's excusable, but it does happen, especially if DS's class is large. And it's orchestra, not coming in from recess; generally there are attendance checks at times when a student not being in the correct place would be a huge safety issue. None of your kids have been left outside at recess or let off at the wrong bus stop or otherwise unsupervised, have they? That would be a much bigger red flag of a problem than missing orchestra.

It sounds like somehow DS didn't get the memo about when orchestra was, maybe he wasn't given it, maybe he lost it or wasn't paying attention. But what matters here is what happens next, if now that the teacher has been reminded that DS wants to go to orchestra will she make sure he gets there. All teachers can make mistakes; the good ones will correct them once they become aware of them.

The problems you've mentioned in this and your other thread sounds like the kind of problems that can happen in public schools - once in a while. What is the balance between 'good stuff' and problems like these? Do the problems ever impact safety or a students' learning? How does the school respond when you bring up issues? That will tell you how good a school you're dealing with, and it might take months to see all the strengths of a school so you can make your conclusions.

[Mackenzie]

At DDs school (6th grade) I feel that the teacher that I had an issue with in the end did a good job of assuaging my concerns. There have been other little things that have peeved me, such as when I inquired why I wasn't notified of some things I was told "It was on the website"... When I advised them that their website is not Mac friendly, they looked at me like I had a third head... but whatever. I can deal with that.

How they have responded when I have raised issues? Well I think its safe to say that communication with the boys school sucks. When I initially inquired who Pickles (Macario) teacher was (after him telling me that Teacher #3 told him she was going to be his "teacher for the year") to the principal his response was "when can we talk?"... Uhm...how about you tell me who my kids teacher is, then we can decide when we can talk. And as I said, that prompted the notification letter of the newest teacher change and part of it mentioned how quickly they notifiy parents of changes. Uhm. No. You don't. It has been two week and I had to ask. When I asked what necessitates a "reteach". I got another non answer- we send home reteach letters whenever a behavior needs to be retaught... Well, that would be dandy if I knew wtf a "reteach" is (ie how does the "reteach" system work). Why are they assuming that people just know what stuff like that is (stuff they make up)? Its a school wide thing too, not a teacher specific one. My older ds has gotten a couple. We can't be the only new family to the school... And with the orchestra thing. I could understand if it had happened a time, maybe two. But orchestra has been going on for weeks, apparently. Why did not one check? Either with him or with me?

Are they learning? Damiyan has. I can't say that Pickles knows anything now that he didn't know before, or wouldn't have learned naturally.

[Wild Lupine]

I really should get to bed since DS is sleeping horribly and will be up at dawn, but I just quickly, it sounds like your school is using a school-wide behavioral plan called positive behavior interventions and supports.

It's becoming more common to be used in schools these days. A lot of people love it; I'm ... not in love with it .... maybe it's great for elementary, I don't know (I'm middle and high school). Probably when your school switched over to using this system they sent a memo home about it, then they started using the system with all the lingo forgetting that 1) not many parents read the memo to begin with, and 2) new families would need to be given the memo too.

In PBIS lingo, I think 'reteach' is code for 'remind students what the rule is.' I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that the letter that was sent home about the reteach was just letting you know they needed to remind your son not to push. Why the tree-wastage for something like this, you ask? It's part of a paper trail. If someone gets several of these 'reteaches' for minor infractions they progress to a bigger intervention.

[Mackenzie]

That makes sense (not the system itself but in relation to whats being used at school). At the beginning of the year, I remember getting class information sent home from Teacher #1 that said that they would not be participating in the school wide behavior plan. When he was with her and Teacher #2, he had a monthly calendar in his folder that would get colored each day with the typical color codes. I much preferred that because it gave me an idea of how his whole day was instead of how a particular moment was. And yes, not to mention the paper waste. That bothers me greatly.

Well, I have got follow up emails to this teacher and Damiyan's teacher about orchestra so hopefully I will have more info soon

[SunshineJ]

Wow that sounds really frustrating for you! For the younger child, I would schedule a meeting with the teacher to discuss the "reateach" stuff that comes home daily. Obviously there is an issue (your child finishes his work quickly and then talks) and it sounds like you need to help the teacher figure out what to do about it. Heck it could be something simple like having him read a special book when he finishes early, but for this to keep happening on a daily basis is pretty silly imo. Just going by what you posted she sounds really inexperienced.

For the orchestra, I would contact the school directly and find out what needs to happen. If he's out of it much longer they may say it's too late for him to even join. Just call and let them know the situation and that you never received any further word, still want him involved, and ask what steps you need to take next.

It sounds like the school is really disorganized to be honest. That doesn't mean your children will have a bad year or not learn anything though and unfortunately it also doesn't mean you'll emerge with your sanity intact! Good luck!

[Wild Lupine]

Just one more thought, the orchestra thing might have nothing to do with DS's teacher. It's possible someone forgot to send out a list of orchestra participants, or forgot to put your son's name on it and the teacher didn't find out your son was supposed to be in orchestra until she was in the middle of a very awkward conversation with you. I'm not saying this is any better than the teacher forgetting to send him, just that this episode isn't in and of itself evidence that DS's teacher is disorganized. Someone in the school made a mistake, but it might not have been his classroom teacher.

[CarrieMF]

The Grade 1 issue. The Re-teach is just what the pp said. It is something that they're working on re-learning. With 3 teacher changes in just over a month I can see why a child may be not listening to a teacher. What makes him believe that this teacher will still be around in 2 weeks, yk.

If you want clarificaton IMO it is better to walk in & talk to the teacher.

The Orchestra. Here in Grade 4 yup you are responsible for remembering when a club you join is. There may have been a letter home, there may not have been. That is the first clarification you need. Here parents have to sign permission slips for children to join Choir. Every morning at announcements they say what clubs are at noon. It is the child's responsibility to remember that they have xyz at noon hour. This goes for Grade 1 & up.

[Lisa1970]

What you are seeing is standard in schools now, but it is also unreasonable. That 3rd teacher for your 1st grade sounds awful. And I am sick of 4th graders being expected to keep their own schedule and act like miniadults. The teachers is failing to take responsibility for her own job and the kids in her care.

So you are not being unreasonable, they are.

[CarrieMF]

The teachers is failing to take responsibility for her own job and the kids in her care.

I disagree. Unless the orchestra is part of the Grade 4 curriculum then the teacher is not failing to take responsibility for her job. Teachers end up having to take on extra curricular projects with the kids. Often these are done at noon so the teachers & kids don't have to spend more time at school. There will be 1-2 teachers in charge of these projects. IF a child has made the committment to this then that child is certainly responsible to making it to practice. It is not the job of 1-2 teachers to round up all the kids in the grades who choose to participate in this activity. In some cases this can be 6 grades with 2+ classes for each grade. The teacher can't be getting all these kids AND supervising them in the room at the same time.

When I was in Grade 4 I was perfectly capable of remembering which days I had to catch the bus to get home & which days I had a committment after school and to stay for it.

[EdnaMarie]

I don't know but as for the radio / fundraising / neighbors issue, if you listen to the radio on the computer, you don't get the fundraising and you can just send in your donations through direct deposit and not hear about it all freaking year.

Good luck, it sounds tough. I mean with the school.

[Mackenzie]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

I disagree. Unless the orchestra is part of the Grade 4 curriculum then the teacher is not failing to take responsibility for her job. Teachers end up having to take on extra curricular projects with the kids. Often these are done at noon so the teachers & kids don't have to spend more time at school. There will be 1-2 teachers in charge of these projects. IF a child has made the committment to this then that child is certainly responsible to making it to practice. It is not the job of 1-2 teachers to round up all the kids in the grades who choose to participate in this activity. In some cases this can be 6 grades with 2+ classes for each grade. The teacher can't be getting all these kids AND supervising them in the room at the same time.

When I was in Grade 4 I was perfectly capable of remembering which days I had to catch the bus to get home & which days I had a committment after school and to stay for it.

It's not afterschool. It's in the middle of the day. You don't think that between two teachers, one should not notice that they don't have a child that they should or have a child during a time that they shouldn't?

[CarrieMF]

It's in the middle of the day. You don't think that between two teachers, one should not notice that they don't have a child that they should or have a child during a time that they shouldn't?

Is this an assigned class or is it like a club during noon? If it's an assigned class then someone should notice, but they may have asked your son if he was sure he was supposed to be there too. If it's a club & the child originally signed up & then never showed up then I'd presume that the child changed their mind.

Grade 4 is old enough to know to show up & where they are supposed to be.

[Mackenzie]

No, it's not a club during lunch or something, that he would absolutely be responsible for. So he is staying in one class when he should be in another. No one ever asked him "hey Dami. You're signed up for orchestra. Did you or you mom change their mind?". Which also means that te orchestra teacher, if she is the one in charge of such things and not his primary teacher, never communicated to his primary teacher one of her students was signed up but not there. That would also concern me too because what if child X has been signed up and leaving class as if to go to orchestra and never actually goes...

[CarrieMF]

Originally Posted by Mackenzie

No, it's not a club during lunch or something, that he would absolutely be responsible for. So he is staying in one class when he should be in another. No one ever asked him "hey Dami. You're signed up for orchestra. Did you or you mom change their mind?". Which also means that te orchestra teacher, if she is the one in charge of such things and not his primary teacher, never communicated to his primary teacher one of her students was signed up but not there. That would also concern me too because what if child X has been signed up and leaving class as if to go to orchestra and never actually goes...

Yes this is different. What class is he going to when it is supposed to be orchestra time? Are there other kids in his class who are going to orchestra?

[Mackenzie]

Update! UGh...

As for Damiyan and orchestra, I never heard back from his teacher BUT he comes home with a cello today. He now knows when he is supposed to go and where so all is well. Or so I thought. I was asking him how he liked the class and if he is sure he knows when and where and he told me that he does but that his teacher told him that I am blaming her (which I never did. My email to her was asking for more information and I explicitly told her that an frustration she was reading in my email was with everything overall but primarily what is going on in my first graders class) and that I am mad at her for him not going . So now I am pissed at why she felt my child needed to be told anything of the sort. Even *IF* that was the case, Damiyan certainly does not need to be in the middle of it .

And Pickles came home with another very vague "reteach" again, without me having ever received more information like I had contacted the teacher for (at the encouragement of her). So, it is not getting signed and sent back

At this point, I don't know what to do. I've contacted the principal and am waiting to hear back from him. I don't want to be branded as THAT parent (whoops... prolly too late ) but I don't feel that I should have to lower my expectations either...

[Bekka]

You need more communication. THE END. I'm sorry this is so frustrating for you.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that's all I really want. I value that they (the teachers) don't have much free time during school and I don't want to take up a lot of home time so I try to make my concerns clear and my questions to the point. They just seem to be on another plane...

[Emmeline II]

I would contact both teachers and schedule a conference in the next two weeks; I think you've done all you can with e-mail.

Ds' current teacher is awesome and we can e-mail without causing problems; though we did have an 1.5 hour talk, in person, in the first week (because we wanted to head off any problems regarding ds' behavior/ADHD). If it seems like we aren't understanding each other by e-mail we might take a minute when the children are lining up outside for home.

However, it didn't work as well with ds' teacher last year.

[CarrieMF]

I agree you need more communication. I also think you need to go in & talk to them. So much can be taken wrong in an email, it's always better to go in person.