I am horrible at being vegetarian

[karika]

I believe in the vegan lifestyle for the most part. The only part I differ on is I believe eggs from ethical sources are still meant to be part of the human diet, and honey (and maybe clothing made from the dead carcasses of those that died of old age... not achievable in this place, but still what I feel is our role).... but that is subject to change in 5 minutes, since I seem to change my mind constantly.

I want to live without eating mammals at this point. That was my goal for now. But I am failing. My ultimate goal is no meat except maybe occasional seafood. That is what I feel is 'right' for me. But in practice it just isnt easy. I am coming from a primal eating mindset, which includes mostly veg, fruit and meat. With the majority of diet being meat. I have loved bacon and ribs and all sorts of pork. All the meat we do eat is ethically raised/ slaughtered and organically fed.

I was doing good, eating only chicken (and only a breast every 4 or 5 days) and some salmon (about every 16 days)... then there was ham in the house. I ate some for the first time in a couple months or more and it actually tasted good, dammit. I wanted it to taste horrible, like a bite of cheese I tried one day after being dairy free for a year... it tasted so bad I spit it out... but the ham tasted good to me. Maybe I haven't been meat free long enough to get the good gag reflex from meat?

I am GFCFSF. I am actually considering examining my dedication to being soy free, because to eat some of the meat replacements may help me...

not sure why I wrote this other than to get some pointers on how to achieve my goal... and maybe to hear others stories of how the change took place with them

[Baby_Cakes]

Most of the time, what you crave and what you taste is in the preparation. Maybe some of it is texture, but mostly it's the flavor. You aren't "craving meat", you're craving the experience. A lot of this can be accomplished with meat analogues -- seitan is amazing for replicating beef or pork.

You may never get a "gag reflex" to meat. If you're waiting for that to happen, you might be waiting a very long time. Part of being vegan is deliberately avoiding eating animals because you think it's wrong/unhealthy/etc -- not because it necessarily tastes bad.

It might help you to research some things. Really get it in your mind why you are doing this. If its for ethical reasons, there are plenty of books, websites, and literature that can really help steer you in the right direction. I usually point people who are interested to Vegan Outreach.

Aside from that, I don't know if I agree any animal can be humanely slaughtered. I don't see how giving an animal a good life and then taking it in and of itself is ethical. But that's a whole different thread!

I'm sorry if any of this seems non-supportive -- I'm actually very much the opposite!! If you need help or want some recipes to help you on your journey, let me know! You can do this. It's not impossible. It takes some dedication, and some education, but I believe if you want to, you can get where you want to be (wherever that falls on the spectrum)!

[JamSamMom]

I second everything baby_cakes said. I also like vegan.com and subscribe to his blog. I am having trouble getting rid of honey. I use honey as a face mask in the shower for 5 minutes and then I rub baking soda into the honey as a scrub. My face feels amazing and this is so cheap. I got the recipe on MDC in the natural body care forum. I do not want to go out and buy an expensive facial mask, I like my honey for now. I am looking for hommade replacements to honey for a facial mask. Any suggestions?

[Baby_Cakes]

Honey. Hmm. I kinda sit on the fence with honey. I don't purposely use it, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's as unethical as say, milk. Are bees sentient? Do they suffer? Does that even make a difference?

On the other hand, have you looked into using the Oil Cleansing Method? This is also a very inexpensive way to cleanse and is natural.

[JamSamMom]

Thanks Baby_Cakes! I will give that a try this week. I need to go to the store tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Naturopath Mom]

Quick question, what is the main reason that you are faltering? Is it mostly just the pork products and when they are around you? Or do you crave them and buy them yourself?

[karika]

I think it is just having them in the home. I am living with my ex husband for now (big time carnivore), but just got my housing voucher so I can move into an apartment. I am going to recommit myself there. I am already GFCFSF. I think I am going to keep eggs and some fish for now, since I feel the need for protein for me and the girls. Also, the baby has got a taste for meat big time. She wants ham and bacon. I am figuring it out as I go. I wanted the meat so badly, I gave up for a while and just ate what I wanted (all organic of course). I feel a strengthening in my mind and body after ingesting meat sometimes too, like I was lightheaded before and didn't realize it until I grounded myself again with protein or something. I have noticed bad gas and BMs after eating meat again though, so that is a good discouragement. Thanks for checking in.

eta
i had to buy them because he wouldn't use the card (FS) due to pride, and he put meat on the list. then I was saying I am gonna get some bacon, ham, etc....

[umsami]

I can't help on a lot... as my diet has gone back and forth throughout the years. I can tell you that when I became a Muslim 15+ years ago, one of the things I missed most was bacon. I found Fakin' Bacon to be a great great substitution. THey're tempeh strips, made by LightLife. In some stores, I find them in the refrigerated case... in others, the freezer. One of my all-time favorite lunches is a fakin' bacon and tomato sandwich. I guess my advice is to try and find substitutes that work for you for when you're craving whatever. At this point, if I was to be told by God that I could eat all of the pork I wanted, I would still choose fakin' bacon over pig bacon. It just tastes yummier and more satisfying IMHO.

[karika]

this is one of my dilemmas. I live soy free at this time. Since eliminating gluten, casein, soy, canola, and corn (almost) from my diet, I have not had the same stomach troubles that I have had through my life. I am one of those that believes soy is not meant to be ingested the way people do. But I may reconsider that given that I feel eating meat is 'worse'. I am thinking I may use some meat replacement products instead of meat the next time I go crazy for wanting meat. I am not sure what reaction my body will have to soy, if any. I am also not sure what it will do to my children. dd2 has never had soy.

eta the product you linked contains wheat. we can't do gluten. that is one that will stay out of our diet for life I am fairly sure. since going gluten free I have had 2 infactions, and they really hurt.

[abbylotus]

I, too, also like the taste of meat but I just don't eat it. I never say never, so I don't know what the future holds, but as for right now I'm content eating faux meat. Whenever I feel the urge to eat some BACON (why is it always the damn bacon! ) I remind myself why eating it isn't healthy for my body or compassionate to the piggies. Also, I just don't buy meat. My DH eats meat and the kids, too, so if he wants it, he has to go and get it himself or order it when we're out. Best wishes, Mama!

[Naturopath Mom]

karika, maybe sprouted tofu wouldn't effect you as much? I definately believe it is much healthier and really doesn't taste much different. It is by wildwood and its called sproutofu. I think the soy substitues should be used only in transistion, so if that could help you temporarily then I would give it a go.

I would also commit to not buying any meat if at all possible. If it needs to be bought, perhaps someone else could buy it. Best of luck to you.

[karika]

new apartment and new things

I am committed to meat free here in my new apartment. I still use eggs and don't really have a problem with them, as long as the hens are taken care of. I get them from a local farm that has very awesome practices. I still use honey and am not really sure I will quit that either. Again, I get it from a local source of wildflower honey. I did buy wild caught shrimp and halibut for now. dd1 really wanted shrimp and I really wanted halibut.

dd2 asked for chicken the other night. I am torn on what to do. She has loved chicken in the past. I am still unsure if I think it is 'wrong' to eat chickens. Rosie brand chicken is known for its responsible practices. I struggle mentally with things like if we are all one (which I believe we are) and none of this fantasy of this incarnation is real, why does it matter if we eat meat? But I know all actions have a reaction in this place and the reaction of agricultural practices are messing up the environment. But eating from the forest is not something I can do living in an apt in a city. The best I can do at present is to support local small (emphasize small) farmers. I joined a local group that does just that. They are committed to local as am I. But anyway, I am still struggling about eating chicken. And when the nearly 2 yo is asking for it, I would like some idea of what to offer instead. I guess our situation is unique since we are free of so many things in our diet.

We have been eating well since moving in a week ago. Salads with loads of ingredients, juicing, smoothies, fresh fruit, fresh ground peanuts, lentils...

another question- I am craving the skin on chicken breast. I always make mine with heavy seasoning (just salt and black pepper)and it is the first thing I eat. I eat all of it before I even eat the meat, as in- off every piece. I am thinking it is a fat I am craving? I may still give in to chicken breast with skin, but no more mammals! I can say that now because I am in control of my shopping and my home again. However, I know when the girls go to visit the ex, he will offer them meat. He will make sure it is organic (the kind you can get at the local grocery store, not far off FLO I am guessing but fed organic grains), but he will offer them all types. I have to allow him his freedom to parent. I will not make the girls choose one parent over the other. I will continue to educate them however.

[Sol_y_Paz]

Originally Posted by karika

I struggle mentally with things like if we are all one (which I believe we are) and none of this fantasy of this incarnation is real, why does it matter if we eat meat?

Following that line of thought I do think if I was a chicken I would want a good healthy normal chicken life and not be eaten or mistreated by humans. If you believe all life is one, then it would be realistic to respect life for what it is, scared, special, valued, important. You wouldn't want your child, your pet, another child in another country, and so on mistreated just because they are not "you". Can you elaborate more on the concepts you are struggling with mentally? I think this can help. It makes sense if you are not totally on board because you are mentally not there.
Why do you believe in being a vegetarian,why does it make a difference for you or for me? It is overall health, less chances of cancers, better dental health, better for the planet, better for the animals to get to a live their own lives, what are some of the short reasons that you really believe make this way of living and eating worthwhile?

[karika]

I am rather distracted at present with children but the thought was left incomplete before. If we are all one, rocks, earth, trees, plants, animals, ocean, etc.... what is the difference between eating plants and animals? Our bodies do need fuel, but on a microscopic level- eating plants is also eating 'us'.

Part of my beliefs about why not to eat animals is it is the same as eating a human. I do believe that animals (including humans) should live 'free' lives. not in a cage or fenced in field. oh i am having trouble being coherent right now. I will come back later.