Help. Very long tantrums--MORE Help needed in POST 7

[Latte Mama]

I need help please

My DS tantrums, ok I know that is normal for the most part. But sometimes he gets crazy and obviously I am failing at handling it.

Last night we took a little walk before dinner and DS wanted to stop in the little store. The man in there is very nice and always gives DS a lolly (yes I'm ok with it). DS asked for an ice cream so i got him a little cup for after dinner. Usually he's fine with waiting. We got in the house and he wanted that damn ice cream. I SO regretted buying it and felt like an idiot for being snookered.

He was not starving as he had been snacking since getting home from daycare. He started tantrumming, screaming, crying, etc because i told him that he had to wait until after dinner for the ice cream . I thought he would stop after a bit but it went ON and ON, oy! I actually had to sit him in his room for a few minutes because him seeing me was upsetting him more.

So he calmed down in his room, came out and immediately started up with the freakin' ice cream again! This was going on for almost 1/2 hr. and he was sobbing and i just gave it to him . Terrible, I know but at that point it was like he could NOT get ahold of himself.

So obviously no more ice cream and he did calm down after eating 1/2 the ice cream and then dinner. But this has happened a few times now with different things, not just sweets or food. How long do you let a child tantrum for? Some things are just not my hill but some things, I think are kind of important not to let bad habits form, KWIM?

So, at the end, i yelled, felt badly and my DS had crap for half of his dinner. Not good.

Help?

[pbjmama]

When I see things getting out of control I ask myself if I'm going to choose the battle. Battles are over safety rules and few choice other things, but very few. Sometimes I catch myself too late but I try to follow through, then we can have a convo afterward about how it will go next time so the expectations are set.

[EzzysMom]

yeah I really try not to give in in situations like that and aim for a major change of scenery. But if you have already given in, next time he asks for ice cream I'd remind him of the fit and not buy it. Assuming he can remember that far you think? My DD has the memory of an elephant.

For your specific question re: Tantrum time, I let her go as long as she needs to. Yes I will leave the room sometimes if I am getting upset. Often some singing will help her snap out of it or a healthy food choice.

[Latte Mama]

Originally Posted by pbjmama

When I see things getting out of control I ask myself if I'm going to choose the battle. Battles are over safety rules and few choice other things, but very few. Sometimes I catch myself too late but I try to follow through, then we can have a convo afterward about how it will go next time so the expectations are set.

This is good to remember NOW , like you said I don't want to catch myself too late. And I also want to remain consistent. It's just hard when I don't know WHAT he's going to freak out over. I feel like if I didn't give in the other night he probably would have screamed about it for hours and that is too stressful for both of us.

[mamazee]

It's stressful to go through tantrums, but he's learning an important lesson that is really a cornerstone of maturity. That things don't always go how we want, and that it's OK for things to not always go how we want. He will have tantrums until he learns that, and giving into tantrums and avoiding them will just prolong the stage. And adults who have never learned that lesson become the ones who flip out and scream (adult tantrum) when they don't get the parking spot they wanted, and that kind of thing. Allowing him to experience tantrums and learn through them will make him a better and happier adult.

[ellemenope]

Originally Posted by Latte Mama

This was going on for almost 1/2 hr. and he was sobbing and i just gave it to him . Terrible, I know but at that point it was like he could NOT get ahold of himself.

I don't think it is terrible. I would have given him the ice cream before all the fuss. double lol

But, then, I don't believe self-control is something a toddler can be taught. Researchers have found that being able to delay gratification involves an area of the brain called the anterior prefrontal cortex which in normal developing children does not catch up the the rest of the brain until about 4 years of age.

Babies are born with the foremost part of the brain--the prefrontal cortex--almost completely undeveloped. For children developing normally, it takes about four years for that so-called "seat of higher reasoning" to catch up with the rest of the brain in size and complexity. (For children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, the maturation of the prefrontal cortex takes longer; for those with autism, the prefrontal cortex develops early.) This would explain why toddlers (and some with ADHD) are inattentive, distractible, do not remember what you told them 15 seconds ago, and "live in the moment": when developed, the prefrontal cortex plays a key role in suppressing impulses, focusing on the task at hand and setting priorities among competing demands.

And, this article also explains why this is a good thing.

Moreover, even in adults, where the PFC is fully formed, scientists have observed that increased 'cognitive load' affects a persons ability to show self control. And, that an adult can only resist so much temptation. The PFC acts like a muscle and seeminlgy weakens after so much impulse suppression. Scientists suggest that even adults should pick their battles!

I figure, why should I try and beat self control into her brain when it is simply incapable to respond appropriatly due to biology? That is not to say I don't give her oppourtunity to exercise that growing muscle. But, I will follow her lead and not push her into tantrums when I can avoid it in hopes to keep her brain as calm as I can during these important years when it is forming personality.

JMHO

And, more practically, don't buy ice cream in front of a toddler unless you are willing to give them some right then and there.

[Latte Mama]

Thank you so much for that information ellemenope.

Let me describe another scenario where he cried for an extended period of time and both DH and I were just perplexed on what to do.
On Saturday morning, I wanted to go out to the supermarket and was planning on leaving DS home with DH. But when he saw I was leaving he got VERY upset and wanted to come along, so no problem. I told DS to have daddy help him get dressed. I'm ready to go, they come out of the room and DS is dressed except he doesn't want to put shoes on.

DH told him "if you want to go with Mama, you need to put your shoes on". He threw his shoe . So then I told him "bye bye" and he starts freaking out. Okay... I told him the same thing DH did, thinking that because he wanted to go to the store, he would put the friggin' shoes on!!! Apparently, I am a moron

So DS starts melting down and now I had to go and leave him. DH said he cried for THIRTY FIVE minutes!! I am really not okay with this.

DS has been doing things like this. Sometimes he will ask for something and then when i give it to him, he refuses it. So i put it away and then he flips out. But if I try and give it back to him, he doesn't want it!!! WTH?

I understand that some of this is about control. but what exactly can be done so that I'm not losing my mind and my poor baby is not crying for 35 minutes?
I did manage to bypass a tantrum yesterday afternoon. I wanted to take him to a fair and he did the shoes thing again. He kept pointing to a pair of shoes when I asked which ones he wanted. but when i tried to put them on, he kicked me. Finally i just scooped him up and put him in his car seat shoeless. When we got to the fair, he let me put the shoes on with no problem.

[faithsstuff]

I am absolutely no help but am in the same situation. Ds is especially like this about anything that touches his body. Shoes, shirts, undies, food, blankies, water. I know it can't all be random, right. If I could only figure out the his processing techniques. On days that have a odd number as the square root, when the moon is waning and there is a plane flying 20 degrees to my left I will wear my shoes. Any other times I will say 'yes' to wearing shoes but will really throw them at your head and loose my mind. *sigh*

[Pavlovs]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

And, this article also explains why this is a good thing.

Awesome article! Thanks for sharing that.

[shanniesue2]

Originally Posted by Latte Mama

Thank you so much for that information ellemenope.

Let me describe another scenario where he cried for an extended period of time and both DH and I were just perplexed on what to do.
On Saturday morning, I wanted to go out to the supermarket and was planning on leaving DS home with DH. But when he saw I was leaving he got VERY upset and wanted to come along, so no problem. I told DS to have daddy help him get dressed. I'm ready to go, they come out of the room and DS is dressed except he doesn't want to put shoes on.

DH told him "if you want to go with Mama, you need to put your shoes on". He threw his shoe . So then I told him "bye bye" and he starts freaking out. Okay... I told him the same thing DH did, thinking that because he wanted to go to the store, he would put the friggin' shoes on!!! Apparently, I am a moron

So DS starts melting down and now I had to go and leave him. DH said he cried for THIRTY FIVE minutes!! I am really not okay with this.

DS has been doing things like this. Sometimes he will ask for something and then when i give it to him, he refuses it. So i put it away and then he flips out. But if I try and give it back to him, he doesn't want it!!! WTH?

I understand that some of this is about control. but what exactly can be done so that I'm not losing my mind and my poor baby is not crying for 35 minutes?
I did manage to bypass a tantrum yesterday afternoon. I wanted to take him to a fair and he did the shoes thing again. He kept pointing to a pair of shoes when I asked which ones he wanted. but when i tried to put them on, he kicked me. Finally i just scooped him up and put him in his car seat shoeless. When we got to the fair, he let me put the shoes on with no problem.

We have the same issue with shoes. Sometimes, it really helps for me to say something like "do you want to wear you tennis shoes or your flip flops?" or "do you want to put your shoes on or do you want mommy to put your shoes on?" I have even said, "do you want to put your shoes on before you get in the car or after you're in your carseat?" And sometimes (depending on the mood), I wait until we get to wherever we're going to put his shoes on while he's in the carseat so that I can avoid him just taking them off while we're driving to wherever it is we're going.

Becky Bailey (who authored Conscious Discipline and I THINK Easy to Love Difficult to Discipline) says that it's important to shift your focus from "how can I get him to...." to "how I can I help him more likely choose to...." So then if it's an issue of wanting him to put shoes on, then allow him control over how, when, or what kind of shoes. But he still ends up with shoes on his feet.

So those can be helpful in avoiding tantrums. But as far as dealing with long tantrums... sometimes with DS doing something to redirect him from the tantrum works (like taking a bath, going for a walk, watching a movie). And sometimes nothing works. We've had a couple of tantrums lately where any time we've tried to shift him to a new activity, the tantrum shifts... so for example, if we try to shift him to watching a movie, then he's throwing a tantrum over what movie to watch... if it's going for a walk then it's a tantrum over getting in the stroller... etc. Those situations are harder and sometimes I just have to sit by and ride out the storm. And a few times we have creatively given in... (the other morning he was tantruming because he wanted us to put his breakfast on his blue plate. The problem was that the blue plate had his leftovers in it from dinner the night before and was covered in cling wrap... but he absolutely refused every other plate in the house... and was seriously escalating over it... so in the spirit of picking our battles and in the spirit of not wating to rearrange leftovers... we put the pb&j sandwich that he had requested for breakfast on top of the cling wrap that was over his leftovers in the blue plate... he immediately calmed down and ate his breakfast... we put the leftovers back in the fridge when he was done and all was well)

I don't like it when DS is in meltdown mode for a really long time, but sometimes things are the way they are... and that just can't be helped. Sometimes we can have some influence over how things happen so that it is easier for our kiddos to deal with and sometimes we can't have that influence. And we do our best to love and support our kids through those times... and I think that they know that. Even if they do end up screaming for a while.