CPS removed Illinois baby after homebirth - can it happen to any of us? - Page 4

[emc03]

Originally Posted by Valerie

Illinois does indeed license advanced practice nurses (as does every state), including CNMs, but licensure of a CNM is not the same thing as "protecting our rights to have homebirths." To the best of my knowledge there is no state or federal law that recognizes a right to give birth at home.

you have a right to give birth at home in NY state. moreover, by law, insurance is required to cover it at the same rate as a hospital birth if the plan offers midwifery care in general. and thanks to the Midwifery Modernization Act, CNMs no longer need a "partner doctor" in order to practice.

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by emc03

you have a right to give birth at home in NY state. moreover, by law, insurance is required to cover it at the same rate as a hospital birth if the plan offers midwifery care in general. and thanks to the Midwifery Modernization Act, CNMs no longer need a "partner doctor" in order to practice.

That is interesting. Could you cite the part of New York law that guarantees a right to homebirth? Thanks!

What I have said in previous posts (and in response to previous posters) is that a state's willingness to license midwives who attend homebirth does not establish a fundamental right to homebirth.

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by Valerie

That is interesting. Could you cite the part of New York law that guarantees a right to homebirth? Thanks!

What I have said in previous posts (and in response to previous posters) is that a state's willingness to license midwives who attend homebirth does not establish a fundamental right to homebirth.

Forgive the serial posting...

What we are really talking about here is the difference between a "right" and a "privilege," and it is a critical difference.

As an example of a fundamental right, let's use the right to freedom of religion. You have an absolute right to freedom of religion (with certain limitations), and the State cannot take that away from you. It was granted by the Constitution, and the only restrictions the State can put on it are those which prevent you from infringing on the rights of others.

Homebirth, on the other hand, may be a privilege in some states. The State allows the privilege in certain circumstances, the State can regulate access to homebirth, who can attend homebirths, and can even eliminate it entirely as an option. There is not, and never has been, an absolute fundamental right to give birth at home. We might disagree with that -- many people believe that the choice of birth place shouldbe a fundamental right -- but it hasn't happened yet.

[Lady Lilya]

Valerie, I agree with you 100%.

So I guess it would be more correct to say: if CPS has such a hard time with some parents exercising their state-granted privilege to birth at home, then it is no wonder that they also have a hard time with some parents making other choices where the state has not granted them a privilege. (Can you imagine having to get the state's approval of your sleeping arrangement!)

[Unoppressed MAMA Q]

A lot of voices here seem to not realize that obligation is actually on CPS to prove abuse/neglect...not of parents to prove innocence/do only things that are 'state-sanctioned'. This is where most of us run into trouble. They show up, don't have evidence, then we give them all they could want and more.

It's wise to assertively expect them to state their specific 'concerns', and address each directly. They have to spell out how it's abusive/neglectful. Judges can and (at least sometimes) do throw frivolous cases out of court.

[Lady Lilya]

I understand that that is how it is SUPPOSED to be. But again and again I hear about cases where that isn't how it is in reality. I am sure most of the time it works like it is supposed to, but I don't want to be one of the cases where it doesn't.

[Greenlea]

This story is a little scary for me, as I'm due in 3 weeks and am planning a homebirth in IL with a CPM. I truly trust my midwife and its sad that she cannot practice legally in this state. I just pray that everything goes well because I do not want to transfer to a hospital and have to explain everything without mentioning my midwife. Plus, my town has a large population of people living under the poverty level - and sometimes that can trigger a person or hospital staff to automatically assume neglect even if they take the best care of their cildren.

Also, I would hope if we do have to transfer that CPS would not get involved as I'm sure my DH would prolly kill someone before letting our child be taken away from us.

The sad part is, CPS will never get involved unless someone calls them. Someone at the hospital may have felt that child was truly being neglected, or just doesn't understand or care to understand the true facts about homebirth. Plus, once CPS is called, they must investigate. Why they chose to take this child when there are so many other children out there that don't get the help they need, is beyond me.

[smeep]

I'm following their story on their "Bring Ruth Home" page on Facebook. PER THE FACEBOOK PAGE (so not guesses or rumours), they had a court date yesterday and "did not agree to the terms that they offered" so they are going back again in two weeks (they didn't give detail on what those terms were but I would be guessing they were pretty crappy if it was bad enough for them to refuse it).

I find something else highly interesting. Again, going by what was written on their Facebook page, it seems that with their previous birth, they were planning a homebirth when concerns came up and they decided homebirth was no longer a safe option and CHOSE to go to a hospital for intervention (to put it in short terms). That to me speaks tons about their care of this child's safety. If they really were "irresponsible parents who didn't want to go to the hospital" then they wouldn't have transferred with the previous birth. Shouldn't that speak a lot to CPS and the judges involved? (That's more of a rhetorical question, obviously.)

I did send a message to the mother. I didn't ask any questions, just shared some experiences with her and lots of positive words and she replied along the same lines. It's kind of irrelevant, but I just thought I'd mention it. She sounds like she's standing really strong which is so important for her right now. I so wanted to jump through the computer screen and give her a big hug.