I'm out of ideas. I'm not handling this well. I need help.

[BarnMomma]

I posted a fewweeks back about our current situation. Not sure how to link it...

Long story short DS is 3, I had a baby DD 7/2/10, we sold our house(big house,big yard, pool) and closed and moved out by 9/1 and have been living in a hotel(small, no yard, no pool, industrial neighborhood) ever since because we can't close until this coming Tuesday (god willing) on our new house.

DS also just started school M, T, W from 8-12.

So obviously lots of changes for everyone and big time stress all around. Post partum itwas hard on me but I'm coping. New baby is wonderful but HATES her carseat(bucket and the new full size one we just bought to change things up) so I feel like I can't go anywhere unless I want to torture her.

DS has gone from my little angel who had wonderful manners, was cuddly and kind, sweet, agreeable, fun, and all sorts of wonderful to a total monster. I find myself truly disliking his company...and then disliking myself for thinking that.

He shouts at me, he talks meanly to me, he kicks, he throws things, he refusues to eat and mealtime is a battle. Bedtime is a battle. Getting in/out of the tub/shower is a battle. Any little thing that is not 100%his way or desire results in a nasty screaming fit. We had to leave a restaurant the other night because he was having a fit tothe point where he was overturning chairs.

He has picked up any and all adult slang/tone suddenly and he's using it to speak in a horrid tone to us. For example I asked him to keep his hands out of his mouth (we had just left the horse barn)until we were home and he could wash his hands...this was met with "Jesus, why don't you just calm down and stop talking to me you stupid mommy." I certainly don't talk like that to him OR my husband or anyone I can think of. The tone is NASTY.

He does however seem to adore his little baby sister andonlywants to hold and cuddle and kiss her...so that's one good thing.

I KNOW this has been hard on him. Really I do. I've been trying my best to keep things interesting and fun in the afternoons after school and on the other days. I know he hates the hotel, so do I. I've lifted our TV ban and let him watch movies. We've been spending weekends at our country house for familiar space and outdoor time. He's been taking riding lessons which he loves. I'm trying.

But he's getting meaner and meaner.

I don't know what to do. I hate his new behavior. I've tried talking, being loving, being hard, I've yelled( I try not to believe me), cried, done time outs and INs, taken privledges away, tried distractiuon, ignoring....I'm clueless.

I'm miserable. He's miserable. How can we get back on track? I miss my little guy who was fun and sweet and didn't call me a stupid mommy.

[alfabetsoup]

That must be a really difficult situation for all of you. I hope it's over soon and you get your new house!! First of all, you mention you have a country house. Would it be possible for you and the children to stay there instead of the hotel and your DH come on weekends? And just put preschool on hold until you're settled in the new house? Tricky without your DH during the week but for me it would be preferable to staying in a hotel in a bad area.

When my kids do unkind things (and they do plenty! DD1 went through a very mean phase when DD2 was born) I say the same thing every time. "We are kind and gentle to each other." DD1's aggression was mainly directed to DD2 so that worked well for us. In your situation I would say, "We speak kindly to each other in our family." Or you can find your own, something simple that is pretty much one size fits all and positive. "We use gentle hands, we use gentle words, we respect each other" etc. I really think that if you say it enough times the children (and you!) will come to believe it.

I would also time out for egregious offenses. Be calm, say "we speak kindly to each other. Sit here until the clock rings. When you're ready to speak kindly to me I am ready to listen." It's really, really hard to stay calm while being sworn at by a 3yo but if you have a plan it's possible!! Ignore anything that doesn't actively hurt anybody or damage stuff, just murmur "we speak kindly to each other" and move on. And I think lots of conversation about any old thing between you and him, about his day at school, an ant he saw yesterday, whatever, will help (I'm sure you do this already but OMG it's hard when they're acting out!!)

Good luck with your moving, I hope it's all sorted out soon!

ETA: the carseat. Are you anti-paci? If not, see if she'll take one for the car, worked wonders for DD2 esp if she also had a soft lovey like a taggie or other blanket/cuddly toy, even at that age.

[BarnMomma]

Thanks for the ideas.

I'm not anti paci, she is! lol. Bottle too. I have all this pumped milk that she won't drink.

I created a Time Out thing with DS that began with us saying "time out!" while making a T with our handsif we were feeling sad or angry, hugging, and then fixing the situation. It worked beautifully for 4 days then it was me saying "Time Out" and DS saying "I"m not doing that stupid mommy."

Really feeling low about this.

Oh, and for various reasons we need tobe downstate m-f.

[claras_mom]

different hotel? with a pool maybe?

nak

[Super~Single~Mama]

I have no ideas, but I wanted to tell you that my Aunt (who is a wonderful mother, and is like a second mom to me) hates 3 year olds. She loves 2 & 4 year olds, but can't stand 3yo's. She said its b/c they talk back, don't get distracted, won't go to sleep, don't listen, are testing testing testing testing and she just hates that age.

But, she LOVES 4 yo's. So, I would recommend saying, "this too shall pass" as many times as possible.

Also, trying to get some one on one time with your DS might help a tad if its possible. He's never had a baby sister before, and he could probably use some "mommy's all mine" time while daddy takes care of the baby. If thats possible. I hope it is.

[karanyavel]

Although I don't really much advice, I just want to say that this too shall pass. My daughter acted like this (maybe not quite as extreme but we never went through so many changes at once as you're describing) when she was 3, anytime she was under stress or was starting to feel unwell. It was often a sign that she was about to get sick, but sometimes it was for other reasons, like that her dad was gone more than he had been for a while (start of a new semester).

As you said, your DS has a lot going on -- living in a hotel temporarily, a new sibling, starting preschool. No doubt he is under a lot of stress.

What we did was a combination of things: doing our best to get DD to open up about what she was *really* unhappy about and letting her know, gently but firmly, that we could not be around her when she acted like this. I would tell her so (calmly) and then turn my back and refuse to interact in any way until she was behaving rationally. If she tried to grab at me or continually place herself in front of me after I'd turned away, I'd go shut myself in another room until she was ready to be kind. I believe what I said was along the lines of, "I'm sorry, but I don't want to be around you when you're like this."

Of course, that didn't work in public places, so we often had to just scoop her up and end whatever we were doing while she protested loudly.

And in the same vein as the previous poster, I really feel like the "marathon" ends right around a child's 4th birthday.

Best of luck.

--K

[Norasmomma]

Your situation is unique with the hotel, your son however is not. 3 year olds are pretty much the worst, really go over to the childhood years, there are threads upon threads about what a PITA 3 year olds are. It really is nothing new. I've said time and time again that I've resented my DD-it's true I have Does that make me a bad mom, ummmm no, it makes me a real mom. We love our kids, but we don't have to like their behavior, I'm sure my kids don't like me sometimes. I KNOW DD doesn't. The truth is you have a new baby, your life is in somewhat of disarray, and your son is being extremely difficult....it is trying.

I have to chime in with PP who said their aunt hated 3 year olds, I'm not that fond of the 2.5-3-ish crowd. DD was annoying, talking back, running away, saying I hate mommy, I only love Daddy, throwing fits daily, hitting.....generally everyday is a battle. Your son sounds pretty normal to me and I know that may not help you, but it's the truth. I too have to follow the mantra of "this shall pass". My DD just turned 4 and she has her days still(like today ) but in reality she is turning into a really fabulous little girl, she's fun, adores her brother and is much better than a year ago.

I use timers, little kitchen ones from the dollar store. We get out of the bath when the timer rings. honestly DD has kinda made me a hard butt, she just is one who needs a solid thing like a bell to let her know it's time for a new task.

I'm sorry things are this way, but it sounds like a severe case of the 3's.

[madskye]

Just a quick note...my DD was angelic til she turned 3. To this day, I can't think of her as a "difficult" kid or spirited or whatever word you want to use because she was such a sweet and EASY baby. Once she hit three--things got crazy! As previous posters have said, it was a tough year. They are learning so many things-language, manners, physical stuff, giving up naps, some are starting preschool, getting new siblings--there's just a lot for them to process every day. It does get better. DD is five and she is still throwing tantrums (we're working on it...) but I'd take five over three any day. But I will say, that her having been such an easy baby made the tantrums and bad behaviors of a 3 year old who skipped the "terrible two's" just that much more baffling to me. I would think "She knows better! She can do better!" but in actuality, she didn't know and she wasn't mature enough yet.

I hope you get in your house soon, and then maybe things will settle down and you can at least get some moments of rest.

[BarnMomma]

Thanks everyone!

But what do I DO?


For example last night- he's tired. He's saying he's tired and wants to go to bed. So we go in to put on PJ's and he just starts screaming "NO PAJAMAS! I DON'T WANT PAJAMAS! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! NOOOO!!!" all while flailing on the bed, kicking, and almost falling off the bed several times. We're in a hotel and the walls are thin so we just kept repeating "please stop, please stop, please be quiet, no kicking, please enough now, please calm down..." and then I lost it and stormed out of the room. I heard myhusband pleading with him for another 10 minutes.

I"ve tried saying "mommy will not talk with you when you act like this. When you are ready to be nice I will talk to you." No effect.

I've tried time outs and now he volunteers for them. "I"m doing a timeout. Leave me alone!" and he slams the door. I say no slamming the door. So he opens it and slams it again.

I need a new strategy. These fits make my blood boil and I really struggleto remain calm and not scream. I got so mad yesterday(after I made homemade from scratch waffles at his request in that little crap kitchen he threw them on the floor when I asked him to sit properly in his chair with no feet on the table) I kicked a kitchen cabinet and hurt my toe. Not good on mommy's part.

Seriously- what can I DO? I need a step by step plan when he'sacting like this.

[madskye]

Lurk on the Gentle Discipline forum. Read Playful Parenting, which is great for any age but I think 3 year olds really engage with that kind of imaginative redirection. Try to take it one thing at a time. Accept that even though it's sucky, it's age appropriate. Kids cry and throw tantrums. If he's going to throw them at bedtime, and you're worried about disturbing the neighbors, move bedtime earlier so at least you know he's not keeping people up. If he's going to throw his food on the floor, give him small amounts on his plate and refill it when he eats it up and doesn't throw it on the floor.

[GuildJenn]

Your situation is soooo stressful. In some ways my best advice is to muddle through as best you can. Really you can re-strategize when you're at home. Did the house close?

However you just said you need strategies so here are a few of ours that may or may not help - 3 year olds are tricky. I loved your Time Out thing, although I think it's the kind of thing that works when the child is not tired out, etc.

So here are some ideas.

1. Disengage. Pleading for ten minutes doesn't shorten the tantrum. Once a child is tantrumming, in my experience, it's pretty much game over for negotiation. Sometimes empathising works, if it's done sort of "caveman style" (remember that your child is completely overwhelmed): You're ANGRY about the PYJAMAS. You DON'T WANT them on."

At home I would just say let it go. In a hotel, I might carry him out to the car if it were not a case of going down 8 floors or whatever.

1. a) Disengage from eating struggles. I don't think he's going to starve. I would not try to get him to eat - I'd present him with food and then leave it. If he throws it on the floor then it's meal over (I personally would offer a snack about a half hour later.) The more he senses you care, the more likely he is to make an issue. If you want backup on this check out Ellyn Satter's books.

Leaving the restaurant is sometimes all you can do.

1. c) With the nasty language I will write more below but you could choose selective deafness. Like you just can't hear him when he does it.

2. See if you can minimize some of the arguing or at least embarrassment at the hotel by time shifting things around. For example, getting PJs on earlier in the day sometimes worked well with my son as then they weren't part of the whole bedtime issue. We would all get in our PJs for dessert (as long as it wasn't too messy.) We did baths in the morning (and not every day) or else right after a messy activity, because if he was cranky it was a battle. (Swimming helped too ).

3. This may or may not work but for both name calling and hitting my reaction was basically to stop the world - pull over, stop shopping, drop down to one knee, look my son in the eye and say in my sternest voice, "It is NOT OKAY to talk to me like that/hit/etc. We DO NOT do that in this family." I mean full-out parental disapproval. But then - disengage. I'm not sure what step two was 'cause we didn't get there.

If a toy was thrown for us it was the toy that went into timeout. One day we had 17 lined up on the piano. Soon they weren't being thrown. We did have throwable toys in the hallway. (Again, hard in a hotel.)

4. Proactively giving him some things to be in control of may help. Playing games where he's the boss/leader; giving him some responsibility for part of the mealtime or bedtime routine.

But ultimately - 3 involves a lot of loud struggle and that's hard in a hotel. Like I said, getting through this will be a win on its own.

[5gifts]

In the 'no pajamas' sit. - I would have said 'no pajamas!' back and taken them away playfully. Then said something like 'no pajamas! Yes shorts!' and stuck some shorts on his head like a hat.
hopefully that would difuse the fit, and then I'd cuddle him to sleep in anything/or nothing that he was happy to wear.
If it just made him madder, there's nothing to do but to try to stay mellow

[mouso]

Originally Posted by thyra

I have no ideas, but I wanted to tell you that my Aunt (who is a wonderful mother, and is like a second mom to me) hates 3 year olds. She loves 2 & 4 year olds, but can't stand 3yo's. She said its b/c they talk back, don't get distracted, won't go to sleep, don't listen, are testing testing testing testing and she just hates that age.

But, she LOVES 4 yo's. So, I would recommend saying, "this too shall pass" as many times as possible.

Originally Posted by Norasmomma

Your situation is unique with the hotel, your son however is not. 3 year olds are pretty much the worst, really go over to the childhood years, there are threads upon threads about what a PITA 3 year olds are. It really is nothing new. I've said time and time again that I've resented my DD-it's true I have Does that make me a bad mom, ummmm no, it makes me a real mom. We love our kids, but we don't have to like their behavior, I'm sure my kids don't like me sometimes. I KNOW DD doesn't. The truth is you have a new baby, your life is in somewhat of disarray, and your son is being extremely difficult....it is trying.

I have to chime in with PP who said their aunt hated 3 year olds, I'm not that fond of the 2.5-3-ish crowd. DD was annoying, talking back, running away, saying I hate mommy, I only love Daddy, throwing fits daily, hitting.....generally everyday is a battle. Your son sounds pretty normal to me and I know that may not help you, but it's the truth. I too have to follow the mantra of "this shall pass". My DD just turned 4 and she has her days still(like today ) but in reality she is turning into a really fabulous little girl, she's fun, adores her brother and is much better than a year ago.


I'm sorry things are this way, but it sounds like a severe case of the 3's.

I love you both, PPs. Just when I start to think that my 3 y.o. DD is just going to be crazy forever and I'll be pushing her out the door to go to college b/c it's going to be 15 more years of this and I won't be able to enjoy any of them I see these comments. And it makes me calm.

OP, I wish I had some great advice for you. It sounds like he has hit the Tyrannical Threes in a BIG way. I'm sure it will get better when you are in a more stable environment. New sibling, new house and age 3- Watch out!!!

Also, with the screaming- he probably now knows he can scream and y'all will just ask him to please stop b/c you are in a hotel and don't want to cause a ruckus. So he's got you stuck.
I would very likely pick up my DD and take her outside to the car. Put her in and sit there and leaf through a magazine while she got it out. Tell her I am available to talk when she is ready to talk about it. And tell her in a very calm voice we're sitting there until she's done but she is putting her PJs on. Oh yes, she is.

Good advice from GuildJenn and I just saw that she said the same thing about going to the car too.
Hang in there!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by BarnMomma

Thanks everyone!

But what do I DO?


For example last night- he's tired. He's saying he's tired and wants to go to bed. So we go in to put on PJ's and he just starts screaming "NO PAJAMAS! I DON'T WANT PAJAMAS! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! NOOOO!!!" all while flailing on the bed, kicking, and almost falling off the bed several times. We're in a hotel and the walls are thin so we just kept repeating "please stop, please stop, please be quiet, no kicking, please enough now, please calm down..." and then I lost it and stormed out of the room. I heard myhusband pleading with him for another 10 minutes.

I"ve tried saying "mommy will not talk with you when you act like this. When you are ready to be nice I will talk to you." No effect.

I've tried time outs and now he volunteers for them. "I"m doing a timeout. Leave me alone!" and he slams the door. I say no slamming the door. So he opens it and slams it again.

I need a new strategy. These fits make my blood boil and I really struggleto remain calm and not scream. I got so mad yesterday(after I made homemade from scratch waffles at his request in that little crap kitchen he threw them on the floor when I asked him to sit properly in his chair with no feet on the table) I kicked a kitchen cabinet and hurt my toe. Not good on mommy's part.

Seriously- what can I DO? I need a step by step plan when he'sacting like this.

You hang on tight and pick your battles. He doesn't want PJ's? What would he prefer? Let him wear whatever he wants to bed (b/c in the scheme of things, does it really matter?), but the food thing is not ok. It's not ok to treat mommy like that - so hop over to GD to ask there about that.

You can do this. Deep breath. You can do this.

[reezley]

I love so much of the advice the previous posters have written. Just wanted to chime in to agree with them. Playful Parenting is a great book. In a hotel where quiet may be higher on the list than pajamas, I would look at what things you can let go of, and just enforce the very important ones. And - you probably will get more quiet sooner if you disengage from the tantrum. Like, leave the room and say "I will wait until it's quieter and I can talk to you more easily". The noise may keep going in there, but ... you can't MAKE a kid stop. You just have to wait I think. Try to keep the even tone and calm and NOT match the kid's intensity, they do get the energy from you, it will all blow over sooner if you do remain the sane one. It's really hard to have an "angelic" baby and a preschooler. I remember those ages and the preschooler can seem so annoying! And it must be really hard to live in the hotel where you feel like you need to be quiet on top of everything else. Hang in there!!

[Norasmomma]

Originally Posted by thyra

You hang on tight and pick your battles. He doesn't want PJ's? What would he prefer? Let him wear whatever he wants to bed (b/c in the scheme of things, does it really matter?), but the food thing is not ok. It's not ok to treat mommy like that - so hop over to GD to ask there about that.

You can do this. Deep breath. You can do this.

So true this age it really become necessary to decide what really is important and what is just fluff. Is it really necessary to wear pajamas and have a scream-fest about it? Probably not, let him wear pants, underwear, whatever. I love the advice to disengage. Throwing food on the floor would NOT be ok, IMO. I could care less about pajamas, but food throwing after he asked for it? Ummm no way, I'd be pretty upset. Pleading with him will.not.work. It is developmentally appropriate for a 3 year old to do all of these behaviors, he's testing you and his boundaries.

I have to say my plan of attack when DD was in the thick of this was survival. I was pregnant, sick, tired every day was a battle and just when it seemed there was no end in sight, it just vanished, like I said before we have our days, but it's not every day.

[sarafi]

Originally Posted by BarnMomma

I posted a fewweeks back about our current situation. Not sure how to link it...

Long story short DS is 3, I had a baby DD 7/2/10, we sold our house(big house,big yard, pool) and closed and moved out by 9/1 and have been living in a hotel(small, no yard, no pool, industrial neighborhood) ever since because we can't close until this coming Tuesday (god willing) on our new house.

DS also just started school M, T, W from 8-12.

So obviously lots of changes for everyone and big time stress all around. Post partum itwas hard on me but I'm coping. New baby is wonderful but HATES her carseat(bucket and the new full size one we just bought to change things up) so I feel like I can't go anywhere unless I want to torture her.

DS has gone from my little angel who had wonderful manners, was cuddly and kind, sweet, agreeable, fun, and all sorts of wonderful to a total monster. I find myself truly disliking his company...and then disliking myself for thinking that.

He shouts at me, he talks meanly to me, he kicks, he throws things, he refusues to eat and mealtime is a battle. Bedtime is a battle. Getting in/out of the tub/shower is a battle. Any little thing that is not 100%his way or desire results in a nasty screaming fit. We had to leave a restaurant the other night because he was having a fit tothe point where he was overturning chairs.

He has picked up any and all adult slang/tone suddenly and he's using it to speak in a horrid tone to us. For example I asked him to keep his hands out of his mouth (we had just left the horse barn)until we were home and he could wash his hands...this was met with "Jesus, why don't you just calm down and stop talking to me you stupid mommy." I certainly don't talk like that to him OR my husband or anyone I can think of. The tone is NASTY.

He does however seem to adore his little baby sister andonlywants to hold and cuddle and kiss her...so that's one good thing.

I KNOW this has been hard on him. Really I do. I've been trying my best to keep things interesting and fun in the afternoons after school and on the other days. I know he hates the hotel, so do I. I've lifted our TV ban and let him watch movies. We've been spending weekends at our country house for familiar space and outdoor time. He's been taking riding lessons which he loves. I'm trying.

But he's getting meaner and meaner.

I don't know what to do. I hate his new behavior. I've tried talking, being loving, being hard, I've yelled( I try not to believe me), cried, done time outs and INs, taken privledges away, tried distractiuon, ignoring....I'm clueless.

I'm miserable. He's miserable. How can we get back on track? I miss my little guy who was fun and sweet and didn't call me a stupid mommy.

You have gotten really good answers and I just wanted to chime in with a "you can do it, and have been doing a great job!!!"

Oh my gosh, so much of this is just plain 3 and very little could have been prevented it. Of course some of it has also to do with all the changes. Hugs to you, you are doing an awesome job.

Coming from a mommy who has also lived in hotels/moved/completely uprooted her kids many times--none of this is surprising. We look at moving as a vacation, and the kids get to slack on stuff like being 100% polite (feet on table, chewing with mouth open--even when I know they are doing it to bother me), cleaning all the time etc. much like the adults do. This is stressful stuff right?

Even though you are getting into your permanent home soon, maybe just focus on one or two things you will die for and just plain ignore the rest. Yeah, it's lame if kids scream in hotels--but you are not talking about 3 in the morning and you are giving him a lot of power since he knows it bothers you. It is really hard to be a naturally polite person in charge of tantruming kids in this environment.

I fifth/sixth the whole let the kid wear whatever to bed. Unless you actually count on the fire-retardant in the jammies idea, or the other clothes are filthy, I don't see the problem.

For all the transitions (getting in out of bath, car, whatever is driving you crazy that they insist on either doing themselves or making a huge production of) I either try to always have a book, or take it as a great time to sit on the floor and nurse the baby. You are there and available, and if they ask you sweetly for help you can--but you don't have to feel stressed about ALWAYS waiting for them to hurry. If they ask you rudely, or tell you to help I would ignore them after reminding them that "I will not be talked to in that way"

A PP said just what I was going to say: DON'T ENGAGE So very hard to do, but at this age worth it's weight in gold. Ask once, if they want to argue/cuss you out/scream or whatever just ignore it and stop everything until they do what you need them to do--but remember only do this when you need something done. I always think of the kid who cried wolf story these days, I want to raise my children gently so that when I really make a stink (even if they are 3) they will MOVE!

Hugs again, this age and transitions like what you are going thru are really hard.

[2xand2y]

I haven't finished reading everything but what I see is a "choose your battles" situation. When he put himself in time out he slammed the door and you said "No slamming doors." and he did it again. In that split second before you speak you have to decide if it is a battle you are willing to engage in right then, if not let it go. Remembering of course that he is very prone right now (for reasons you've identified) to escalate things right now.

The waffle thing turned ugly when you asked him to sit nicely. I know it is hard because we want our kids to be civilized. Then there is the fact that this is a reasonable request and "who knew?" that it would spark a fit. I like to give choices because I feel like it gives me an out. So in this case it would be: "Do you want to eat your waffles on the table or picnic style on the floor with a blanket?". Then it would have been: "You chose the table can you please sit nicely?" . . . . "If you don't sit nicely you'll have to sit picnic style or choose to leave the table?" It really works my brain but I feel like I'm not perceived as the bad guy/stupid mommy this way.

((((hugs)))) What an incredibly rough time for you all.

[Xerxella]

I am a huge fan of the Secret of Parenting. When my child does any of those type of actions, I stop cross my arms and stare at him with the raised eyebrows. I can hold that pose for a long time. In the beginning I would have to tell him what the problem was (We do not throw food on the floor, please get down and pick it up, right now.) Then the, "NOOOOO, I don't want to" or "It just slipped out of my hand" or "YOU pick it up" begins. Then I just continue to stand there and stare and say nothing. You'll be amazed at how well this works. You may have to stand there through the screaming and crying and full blown tantrum.

[mouso]

xerxella- Yes! I call it the "teacher look." It's a powerful tool.