Helping my undiagnosed 7-year-old learn boundaries

[annettemarie]

Hi! I've posted before about my almost-7, Nicholas. We've never had him formerly evaluated. I'm fairly certain we're dealing with ADD and there's probably some other stuff going on as well.

One of his issues is that he really lacks an understanding of social boundaries-- he's constantly in people's personal space and he always needs to be touching and feeling people, climbing on them, feeling their faces. He needs constant tactile stimulation. I've having a heavy blanket made for him for Christmas and I try to do lots of back rubs and stuff for him, but I'm wondering what we can do to help him learn about not touching and grabbing people all the time. Just talking/explaining isn't helping.

He especially seems to have a thing for boobs. For some reason, he's attracted to them, touching, rubbing, etc. It drives me nuts and I'm his mother; I can't imagine how disconcerting it must be to other people.

I get that he has a high need for touch, and I don't mind providing it for him, although I do often wonder why God would give a sensory-seeking kid to a sensory-avoiding mama. But it can be very off-putting to someone who doesn't know him, so I'd really like some advice on helping him to learn when it's appropriate and when it isn't.

[amandanmv]

I don't have any advice, as we're dealing with this right now with my DS (ASD, ADHD and SPD). He'll get right up in your face and stand right up next to someone. He's not overly into boobs, but he did on a couple occasions grab someone's boobs. Once a lady who worked in a store that DH frequented (the girl often held him and let him "help" with the cash register) and the othe was a total stranger that started talking to him in wal-mart when he got a case of the giggles. I was mortified..but she blew it off..said she was a preschool teacher for many years. phew! hehe

[marge234]

Why are you reluctant to have him evaluated?

[annettemarie]

We homeschool, so services aren't readily available. He also seems to be mostly doing OK-- he's doing great with learning, he gets along well with his friends, and does well at church and in co-op. To be honest, the touching seems to bother me more than it does other people. He mostly seems to be a quirky kid, and while I wouldn't say I am reluctant to have him evaluated, I am concerned that the focus will be on "fixing him" or medicating him rather than accepting his quirks as part of who he is.

[karne]

I don't think that you have to fix kids or medicate them as an end result of an evaluation. I think it's not likely to be seen as quirky if your ds impulsively touches an area of someone else's body that generally considered off limits. Peple in your social circle might be accepting of unasked for touch, but someone else may not be quite the same way. That would be a real concern for me as a mom.

[annettemarie]

That's why I'm asking for help on asking him to understand this.

ETA: Unless you think this is something he can only learn about after having a diagnosis? I guess I am having trouble understanding what you're saying.

ETAA: And just to clarify, he's not walking around feeling out strangers.

[Linda on the move]

I think it is FAR easier to help a child if you know what is going on with him or her. It's easier to communicate with others, it's easier to find books that will help you, it's easier to understand their movitation and what might make sense to them.

It it also my experience as a former homeschooler, that if the situation changes and you need to put your child in school, it can take a long time, like a year, to get a solid dx. All of that time the school's hands are completely tied. No services or accomodations are available to your child. After our experience, I would HIGHLY recommend any homeschooler with a sn child create a paper trail.

I really think you should start the eval process.

As far as "fixing" him vs "accepting" him, eventually, this is going to impact his ability to have normal peer relationships, and he'll most likely want to be more like neuro-typical peers. My Dd will never be "normal." There is no "fixing" her. However, her ability to live a good life for her, to do things, to learn, to be a part of the larger world requires far more than "accepting" her.

Social skills class was realy helpful to my DD, and is appropriate for kids with ADD, ADHD, etc. You might start checking around and see what you can find in your city.

As far as the inappropriate touching at home, what happens if you get up and walk away?

[annettemarie]

Thanks, Linda! We went through a whole evaluation process with my first, who ended up with no diagnosis and just a bunch of different "issues" (well, he did get an anxiety disorder diagnosis, but we were basically told that was a throwaway diagnosis to get insurance to cover the evaluation) so I suppose I am a little suspicious of the whole process. And he ended up growing out of a lot of the things that seemed so alarming when he was this age. We're also moving within the next year, and where we are now there are not a lot of resources. I'm hoping we end up back home, where there are just more options. There aren't anything like social skills classes around here, unfortunately.

I'm pregnant with twins, so there isn't a whole lot of hopping up and walking away. I do ask him to please stop, and he'll do that. Or I'll hold his hand or rub his back instead (or ask him if he wants to rub my back or hold my hand.) That seems to help.

[karne]

Annettemarie, I guess my questions were really headed more toward what Linda referenced above. I think it can be different to view behavior as quirks, versus behavior as meeting a specific need, or arising out of a neurological issue. I'm referencing my own situation in which we initially told ourselves and our dd that her learning differences were developmental, or just her way of learning, or would be grown out of...all of which has been true, except that they happened to fall under the broad dx of dyslexia. knowing this gave us a deeper, richer understanding and way to frame her experience, which in turn allowed us to introduce the same framework to our dd. Does that make sense? It helped in that, at a certain age it just didn't feel helpful to be told 'that's just who you are, or how you learn". It's an ongoing conversation because you don't outgrow dyslexia.

We are currently in the ps system, so that is meaningful to our choices, but I undertand that it may be different if you are homeschooling.

Hope that clarifies my post.

[annettemarie]

That makes tons of sense. Sorry if I was prickly!

Like I said, with my first, we went through hell for half a year-- an evaluation by an occupational therapist, pediatric ophthalmologist, neuropsychologist, child psychologist, I think there were a few more in there-- and in the end he didn't fit anything. He was a highly gifted kid with anxiety issues and a fine motor skills delay. And now, 5 years later, other than lingering anxiety issues he is doing very well. I know I probably shouldn't base my decisions with Nicholas on my experience with Michael.

I also know there's a big cognitive shift that happens around age 7. Nicholas turns 7 this week, and I think part of me was waiting to see if something clicked with him.

Can I ask how old your kids were when you had them diagnosed?

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by karne

knowing this gave us a deeper, richer understanding and way to frame her experience, which in turn allowed us to introduce the same framework to our dd.

it makes sense to me. With the inappropriate touching example, understanding if this is sensory seeking, a lack empathy, just seeking attention in negative ways, etc could really help figure out a solution.

It's quite possible that the way you are responding is furthering the behavior by rewarding it, when he should be learning more self control.

It's possible that he either doesn't understand that it really bothers you (you sound overly nice about it and I think getting a little mad at him might help stop it) OR he lacks the ability to really care if it bothers you, which is a different red flag.

It's possible that if it is sensory seeking, getting him in some new activities, like swimming, karate, etc would help meet the need in a more appropriate way.

It's also possible that if instead of attempting to meet it yourself, you told him to go play with playdough (or other sensory activity in your home) that you could teach him to meet his own needs rather than relying on you.

But I think the more we understand, the better we can do as parents.

[annettemarie]

That's actually really helpful. I am too nice (OK, everyone stop snickering now, LOL!) I really am. I have my own issues with how I was brought up and I tend to overcompensate.

I do know that we get 6 free EAP visits for each family members through insurance. I wonder if a good start would be having him meet with the child psychologist we saw for our oldest and get his opinion on where we stand? The other specialists we saw with our first are all 1 1/2 hours away and I just can't do that right now.

[karne]

My dd was 9 at dx, but we "knew" much earlier. I also have a younger son, who sounds a lot like your first!

I love how you described your older son doing well except for YOUR lingering anxiety. I feel sometimes like this low level anxiety on my part is a permanent part of raising my children.

[RiverTam]

This social skills picture book has a section on space and physical boundaries. It's oriented towards older kids, but it works with younger kids if you read it to them and talk about it.

http://www.amazon.com/Social-Skills-...5623402&sr=8-2

I've used it and liked it. The author has a book for younger kids, but I haven't used it.

http://www.amazon.com/Picture-Teachi...5623402&sr=8-1

[peaceful_mama]

When I worked for the school district, there was a special ed teacher I worked with who wrote all kinds of social stories. I am fairly sure she got them off the internet, a basic format, and then was adapting to specific situations and putting in the child's/people's names, etc.

Google "social stories" or "social stories for kids with autism" something like that and see what happens. (I just say autism because many of the children she wrote these little books for happened to be autistic.)

They're *really specific* and often use pictures of the people or places involved.

for example, one that I saw was to help a child learn to use the toilet independently without making a mess. It was for a boy, and it got right down to "When I pee, I stand up. I put the seat up." (picture of a raised toilet seat) "When I need to poop, I sit down." (picture of a toilet with seat down) (I didn't know the kid in question, but I'm taking a guess there were messes happening on the bathroom floor often...) You get the idea exactly how specific it's supposed to be WRT your child and your thing you want to address.

it's meant to be read pretty much whenever you come across the issue in question.

And it's meant to be so specific that you might even have (for a school-going child) one that specifically talks about not getting in others' space while standing in line or in the circle for example, and another that talks about not touching people when/where they don't want to be touched.

Since *you* would be writing your book, you can adapt it however you want though WRT what the main things you want to address are, your child's understanding, the language you want to use, the way you want to convey the message, etc.
YOU can make it so YOU see it as respectfully addressing and teaching your child.

[annettemarie]

Thanks so much for the book suggestions! And I love the idea of making our own stories. That really fits in well with some stuff we already do.

DH and I talked and we're going to start with taking him to see the child psychologist we used with my oldest and see if he can give us a general direction in which to go,