Circ presentation-help and ideas

[Toolip]

I'm doing a presentation on circ for a class.
I have to present both sides of the issue and then give my opinion. It's not a persuasive argument type thing. It's called an "issue presentation."

I want to give some history in the beginning and then an anatomy lesson. Then I'll present the "sides" and my opinion.

I was hoping I could get a little help with credible sources.

I need some info about the history
I need a good video of circ, something kind of short. 2-3 minutes.
Any other credible sources for facts about UTI rates, average retraction age, circ & HIV, etc...
proper care of an intact penis
Oh, also anything about Jews who don't circ and why. (there was a thread about this in spirituality that is now closed. maybe it is not ok to post this info.... please pm me if not )
I could also use images to put in the presentation

Any ideas are definitely welcome! I'm very excited and I have lots of material. I just want to make sure that I can site all my facts, I don't want to be caught with something unverifiable.

Thank you very much!

[serendipity22]

www.circumstitions.com

for:
incidence of circ worldwide
intact care
jews questioning circ etc.

Also Dan Bollingers timeline for the history
http://www.icgi.org/medicalization/

[Toolip]

those are great, thank you!

Keep them coming!

[PlainandTall]

What class is this? Did you choose the subject or was it assigned? Are you now "locked in" to the topic? Honestly I think you are approaching this all wrong if the purpose is to present the *issue* you are totally missing it! The issue is not about medical benefits, surgical risks or social statistics ...that's a smokescreen and you fell for it... the issue is about physical autonomy and the social and emotional barriers which prevent certain people from respecting that.
Google "James Atherton & learning as loss" and see what you come up with. He does not address circumcision but what he speaks of is *the issue* you need to take on.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by PlainandTall

What class is this? Did you choose the subject or was it assigned? Are you now "locked in" to the topic? Honestly I think you are approaching this all wrong if the purpose is to present the *issue* you are totally missing it! The issue is not about medical benefits, surgical risks or social statistics ...that's a smokescreen and you fell for it... the issue is about physical autonomy and the social and emotional barriers which prevent certain people from respecting that.
Google "James Atherton & learning as loss" and see what you come up with. He does not address circumcision but what he speaks of is *the issue* you need to take on.

I am locked into it and I did not choose it. I however disagree with you and I think that I will be able to present a lot of information to this class that will open their minds and also help them realize that the fundamental part of the issue is physical autonomy. I agree that the format is not ideal but it is what it is and I am trying to work with is. Physical autonomy is defiantly something that I will be addressing, however, it is too big of an "issue," this presentation has to be about something very specific.

[eepster]

Very often when the risks of circ are talked about, only immediate surgical risks are looked at (infection, hemorrhage, amputation, etc) and risk of long term side effects is ignored. So, make sure you cover meatal stenosis, adhesions, etc.

It's kind of funny (not in a ha-ha way) that one only hears about long term "advantages" , but always only the short term risks are given lip service in most mainstream pros vs. cons lists.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by eepster

Very often when the risks of circ are talked about, only immediate surgical risks are looked at (infection, hemorrhage, amputation, etc) and risk of long term side effects is ignored. So, make sure you cover meatal stenosis, adhesions, etc.

It's kind of funny (not in a ha-ha way) that one only hears about long term "advantages" , but always only the short term risks are given lip service in most mainstream pros vs. cons lists.

yes, definitely! It is very strange Thank you for pointing that out.

[serendipity22]

Lots of complications here
including ones that are often undetected

http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html

[smeep]

Just to throw it in, because I rarely see it mentioned, but the UTI stats are extremely iffy. From what I understand, most of the intact boys in the study were preemies...preemies who weren't circ'd because of increased risk of infection which, DUN DUN DUN!, includes UTIs. When adjusted I believe it showed an equal or higher rate for circ'd boys.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by smeep

Just to throw it in, because I rarely see it mentioned, but the UTI stats are extremely iffy. From what I understand, most of the intact boys in the study were preemies...preemies who weren't circ'd because of increased risk of infection which, DUN DUN DUN!, includes UTIs. When adjusted I believe it showed an equal or higher rate for circ'd boys.

thank you! do you have any sources for that?

[hakunangovi]

For anatomy information, try www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/ . In fact there is a huge amount of information on the cirp website, nearly all of which is referenced to actual studies etc. Check out the references at the end of each article.

[Greg B]

This is a great reference:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...tatement0.html

Remember, for your concluding remarks, the issue of deciding is not one of finding a single issue that compelss one, rather it is balancing the pros and cons:

"A common error made by those who want to justify infant male circumcision on the basis of medical benefits is that they believe that as long as some such benefits are present, circumcision can be justified as therapeutic, in the sense of preventive health care.

This is not correct.

A medical-benefits or 'therapeutic' justification requires that:

1) overall the medical benefits sought outweigh the risks and harms of the procedure required to obtain them,
2) that this procedure is the only reasonable way to obtain these benefits, and
3) that these benefits are necessary to the well-being of the child.

None of these conditions is fulfilled for routine infant male circumcision.

If we view a child's foreskin as having a valid function, we are no more justified in amputating it than any other part of the child's body unless the operation is medically required treatment and the least harmful way to provide that treatment.

From: The Ethical Canary: Science, Society and the Human Spirit by Margaret Somerville. Toronto, 2000"

And one of the big cons is the reduction in sexual function and feeling that RIC causes...

Regards

[MyBoysBlue]

Just type in UTI here and you will get lots of links about the iffy UTI stats.
http://www.cirp.org/cgi-bin/htsearch

[Toolip]

I did the presentation today and it was AMAZING. I am still totally on a high! People were thanking me so much for opening their eyes, they just kept saying how they had no idea! Several people told me they had always known they would circ and now they NEVER will! People were horrified, they cried and they were changed! Babies were definitely spared, it was fantastic.

I had about 60 different references, thank you so much for the help!

[Greg B]

Wow, that is great! Way to go!

[rabbitmum]

That is wonderful, Toolip! I'm so glad somebody is trying to put an end to this barbaric tradition!

[SleeplessMommy]

congrats! how many students in your audience?

[PlainandTall]

AWESOME! Just breaking the silence is such an important thing to do... getting ANY information out there is so much more than what is going on now... but it sounds like you are a VERY effective speaker, that not only the information you offered- but the way you delivered it must have been very profound in order for you to have had such a positive response. I hope that you gather strength from that experience and use your voice more when you have the opportunity (or make an opportunity) I wish we could see a video of the presentation because I'd really love to know how you did it- you are my hero!

[Toolip]

It was about 30 girls in the class. They are all early 20's and it was a perfect group to address. They haven't had kids yet and are really open to new ideas, no one was defensive about decisions that they have already made.

They are still thanking me today and telling me about how they went home and told their boyfriend's how they would NEVER do that to their sons. AND they had comebacks for all of their boyfriends arguments!! woo hoo!

Even the one's who already knew that they wouldn't do it had no idea how bad it really is, they all thought it was just a little snip!

[honey3]

Yay, that's wonderful!! Go you!