Serious Vaxing Dillemma

[alicia9178]

I am a ER RN. I stopped vaccinating my children after my now 6 year old had a vaccine reaction as an infant. My two youngest are not at all vaccinated and the rest are limited on what they have had. The problem is that I have recently moved to CA and there is a major outbreak of Pertussis here...I have seen a fair share in the ER I work in. My concern is whether I should consider myself more likly to transmit these things to my kids if I am exposed to them a lot more then the typical person. Especially with the fact that we will have a newborn this winter. I do not want to be the cause of injury or illness to my children, and I worry that the vaccines could injure them or I could potentially make them sick.

[chaoticzenmom]

That is a dilemma. I think in your case, I might get the dtap for myself, but still not get it for my child.

[alicia9178]

I was actually offered the Pertussis vaccine when I went to the Perinatologist, but I hesitated because I did not know the risks to the baby. I really struggle with this as I just want to do what is in my kiddos best interest and to be honest it is not like I can go to a Physician to get thier advice because it is all so biased. I must say though I very recently got a VERY sick baby in the ER with Pertussis and it scared me as a parent to think that I could cause my children that type of pain.

[xmasbaby7]

I agree that your situation isn't so black and white, just as everyone's isn't, really.

If you breastfeed and feed your family really healthy foods and you get the sense that your kids have good immune systems, then I would probably decline the vaccine more easily.

If I felt that the vaccine was the best choice, I would still wait until I was post-partum.

Good luck!

Remember that you are seeing the worst of the worst, and that there is a sea of normal cases of pertussis that never make it to the er.

[mysticmomma]

It's become a new "standard of care" just like offering a pap and the millions of different blood work (1st trimester screen, GTT, etc). They are pushing this vaccine on pregnant moms and newly postpartum moms because the child is too young for the vaccine. However, this vaccine does not prevent transmission, so you could still have it and pass it to your LO. This vaccine acts on the toxoid itself that is produced by Bordatella pertussis. It doesn't kill the bacterium. Oh, and erythromycin is VERY effective against this bacterium. And there is always an "outbreak" usually most of those with whooping cough have had 1 or more vaccinations.

[WifeofAnt]

Like mysticmomma said, as far as I've heard the vaccine won't prevent you from transmitting pertussis if you contract it at work. It will make your symptoms less severe but it only 'protects' the person who recieves the vaccine.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by WifeofAnt

Like mysticmomma said, as far as I've heard the vaccine won't prevent you from transmitting pertussis if you contract it at work. It will make your symptoms less severe but it only 'protects' the person who recieves the vaccine.

You would also be contagious before showing symptoms and since you would have few symtoms in the first place, would not even know you were a reservoir, in effect, making you more dangerous to your children and patients

[heathergirl67]

Although there is evidence that the babies of parents vaxed against pertussis are less likely to get pertussis.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/123/6/1446

[Fyrestorm]

There is also this weird little study showing that NICU babies who's parents were vaccinated had longer NICU stays than the babies of parents who refused the vaccine.....

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/122/3/e550

[carriebft]

I think people are reading that study way wrong.

The 54 infants whose parents were not offered vaccine had a significantly shorter length of stay, higher birth weight, and higher gestational age than parents who were offered vaccine.

these parents were not offered the vaccine...and they were not interviewed and none had their vaccine status recorded.

Seventeen percent of parents were not offered immunization. Most of their infants were term gestation and spent <72 hours in the NICU.

so you are incorrect in stating that this study claims that those who received the vaccine stayed in the NICU longer. They are saying that there was a group who were not even offered and they are the group the study authors feel need to be targeted as well, as that group demonstrated a flaw in this method of immunization delivery.


Also there is the issue that those who did refuse perhaps did so because their children were not at great risk and were not set to spend a long time in the NICU (because, for example, they had high birth weights and higher gestational age):

The infants of parents who refused immunization had higher gestational age, higher birth weight, and shorter survey days compared with immunized parents

These are things the vaccine did not effect obviously.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by carriebft

these parents were not offered the vaccine...and they were not interviewed and none had their vaccine status recorded.

Yes many were - there are 55 refusals noted - not just misses

These are things the vaccine did not effect obviously.

Perhaps the difference was due to prenatal flu vaccine - chances are the parents who accepted the TDaP also accepted the Flu vax - it would be interesting to look into that

[carriebft]

Yes I addressed those 55 as well...again, their stay had nothing to do with the vaccine. They were there for a shorter time because they had higher gest ages and higher weights. I just have seen a couple posts today connecting the time spent in the NICU with that vaccine.

There are studies on maternal flu vaccine and baby outcomes. Here are a few:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20524915 (see many citations of studies)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15846187

Though I think we need more study on this of course.

[mmhinton]

OP - I can relate! I worked at a very large hospital (as an SLP) when preg with ds1 and for 6 mos after he was born (after 3 mos maternity leave). I allowed them to give him his shots during that time because 1) I had not done enough of my own research to be a confident as a new mom to say no and 2) was worried about what "I might bring home" that was contagious to him (and, at that time, I was exposed daily to LOTS of yucky stuff). Every day, I regret that ds1 had his shots for that time...but I am also thankful that (overall) he is a healthy kid despite that. We stopped vaxing and ds2 has not had a single shot.

Somewhere I read or heard something that has just stuck with me - here it is:
"You can always decide to give your child a shot later / in the future; but, you give it to him or her, it is there forever." ( or something to that effect, but you get the idea

[chaoticzenmom]

I did not mean to get the vaccine while pregnant. But if you are truly bothered by the possibility, maybe a postpartum vaccine for yourself would ease your mind some.

Breastfeeding will help offer some protection. When are you returning to work? I find that my non-vaccinated children have less severe versions of the illnesses they do get. I've had them completely miss the flu when everyone else in the house had a severe flu. We had the swine flu last year and my non-vaccinated breastfed baby didn't get it and my 5yo (2 shots ever) child had a slight fever for a day.

Do you have a naturapathic dr? That might be something to look into. Mine is very reassuring on issues that worry me.

[Crazybean]

If I'm not mistaken.. isn't it the pertussis "season" right now? I thought it was more common during the fall and wasn't seen as much in the winter months. Regardless, if I were in your shoes, my whole family would be dosed up on SA and I would be carefully taking supplements to enhance my immune system during this time.

[caned & able]

Originally Posted by Crazybean

If I'm not mistaken.. isn't it the pertussis "season" right now? I thought it was more common during the fall and wasn't seen as much in the winter months. Regardless, if I were in your shoes, my whole family would be dosed up on SA and I would be carefully taking supplements to enhance my immune system during this time.

Pertussis also moves through the population in 3-4 year epidemics. We are in the midst of another peak; the last one was in 2006.

Dose up on Sodium Ascorbate, Vitamin A, cod liver oil, stay warm and dry, and stay away from coughing people; in other words, use common sense and you should be fine.

[13Sandals]

op: if you have been exposed via your work to the current strain of pertussis circulating in CA - you probably have that so untalked about mythical natural, real-life immunity to pertussis and don't need the vaccine! Of course, the immunity is temporary because we are talking about a bacteria here - but the vaccine is temporary as well.