Tending to health from afar

[autumngrey]

Greetings all. I probably know what should be done in this situation, but I seek the advice of you all who have possibly gone through something similar. I'm afraid that I may be over-reacting to the situation and BF is becoming somewhat despondent feeling hopeless at his lack of "power" to influence the situation.

BFD is 6/1st grade and on and off for the past year has been experiencing problems with wetting during everyday activities (at school, playing with friends, at night). BM has accused that it's BF's fault because BFD experiences anxiety because she has to spend time with BF, though the accidents occur in both households. I sincerely don't believe it could be possible to be caused by anxiety because BFD is always so happy to spend time with BF at our house and, if anything, seems sad to have to go home. We only have her every-other weekend.

Lately, the wetting has gotten drastically worse in frequency (several times a day at school) and BFD is becoming very self conscious (for example, says that she doesn't want to get up from her seat because she's afraid someone will smell her). BF has previously expressed concern about the wetting to BM with no action other than BM taking BFD to the doctor to try to gain "evidence" that it's his fault.

I'm concerned that something is going on with BFD's health that should receive attention and be resolved with diagnosis and a reasonable treatment plan (whether it means paying close attention to soaps or diet or medication or whatever). BF and I just want her to be healthy and happy and be confident to go play with her friends.

The problem is that BM seems uninterested in finding a diagnosis (other than it being anxiety of having to see BF) and we only get BFD on weekends, so short of taking BFD to the emergency room, we're stuck.

Thoughts for how to proceed? Re-communicate to BM by email that he's concerned and then ... ? BFD lives an hour away, and with the every-other-weekend schedule, we don't get an opportunity to simply schedule a doctor's appointment and take her in for proper attention but I'm afraid if there's some kind of infection that it could turn serious (the odor after she has an accident is nauseating, worse than the cat box on the worst day by far).

[VocalMinority]

IMO, this sounds very unusual for a 6-year-old and if there's an awful smell with urine (and it can't be the strong odor of urine that's been held too long - since she's not holding it!), it is almost surely a physical problem, not psychological. Although obviously it could turn into a serious psychological/social issue, if she becomes known as the smelly girl who pees in class. I'm sorry to sound insensitive, but that is exactly what her classmates will be (or already are) saying about her on the playground. She's only 6. You simply can't continue to stand by while she's forced to deal with this on her own! If it's getting worse, then obviously whatever her mother's doing, to try to address it without medical help isn't working. And if Mom's not willing to take the next step, your BF must. She could have a serious infection that could result in long-term problems, if it continues to go untreated.

Find an Immediate Care Center that's open the hours you need. If you're in a smaller town, you may find you need to travel to the nearest big city. But the hospitals in most or all major US cities have these. They're open evenings, weekends, sometimes 24 hours (again, keep calling different hospitals until you find what you need). You get seen faster (and cheaper) than in an E.R., although she may be referred to the E.R. if anything beyond standard office-visit testing is required. Take her the very next time you see her. Isn't that what you knew you should do?

An additional thought: Arm yourselves with information about your BF's right to seek medical treatment for her. Is this addressed in their custodial orders? Do the local laws spell out this right? Many times, either parent - regardless of custody - is legally entitled to seek medical treatment, while the child is with them. However, doctors don't always understand that. So it might even behoove you to bring along a copy of the relevant custodial orders or law, when you take her, just in case. Specifically, it would be nice if you could make it clear to the doctor that you only have her for the weekend and that her CP can't be relied upon to take her to follow-up appointments about this...without the doctor saying, "Wait a minute! I can't treat her if you're not her CP!" Ideally, the doctor should understand the urgency of completing testing and starting treatment during your weekend, rather than just writing a referral for her to be tested later on, during the week, when she's with her Mom.

[Mummoth]

Your BF could also look into whether he can get a copy of DDs medical records. The Dr. you guys take her to see might want to know what tests have been done, and what the results of any tests were.

My daughter is also 6 & has had UTI's... because it's easy to collect, anytime someone comes in with a problem that might be detectable in the urine, they take a sample. Unless BM refused to allow DD to provide one, she's been tested for an infection.

[Super~Single~Mama]

I would think that your BF could file in court to ask for an injunction requiring the mother do either do something about it, or let your BF take her to the Dr. I can't imagine a judge letting that go like mom is. That may be drastic, but if it takes something drastic, it takes something drastic. Good luck.

[Smithie]

Urgent care on your weekend is definitely a good first step. Even if there's no physical symptom such as a UTI than can be revealed with a simple test, your DP's daughter will get the message that her dad can take her to the doctor when she needs to go.

Next steps? Your BF needs to assert his parental rights and get access to his daughter's medical records. He also needs to start attending teacher conferences, school events, etc etc. Since mom wants to get rid of him, he needs to draw the line NOW and demonstrate that he is not going anywhere and he will always be involved. A little militancy now, including the fact-not-threat that continued obstruction by mom will result in a petition to the court for a new custody order, will save a lot of pain and stress for his daughter in years to come.

[autumngrey]

Thanks all for the thoughts!

Jeannie - That her peers are labeling her is what I expect is already or will soon happen, and is exactly what I want to help her avoid. As a young child with psoriasis I was the "disease girl" to my classmates and it's something I think I still haven't gotten over. :-) It hadn't crossed my mind to bring orders with to the doctor--I hadn't even thought of the possibility they would refuse care because of not being the CP but worth doing as a precaution. Mostly I was worried that the urgent care would be unable to really help.

Things have been rough lately with BM's accusations, and feeling like the court can't respond fast enough if at all. Lately whenever BF tries to assert his rights BM gets really mad and texts him "words" and files with the court (lies, mostly so blatant that I think most anyone would easily see through them, but her text transcripts really give it away) and BFD comes to us crying that she won't be able to visit anymore, or with instructions that she's not allowed to play while she's at our house (an issue in itself!!). Now even with a partial court order she comes up with lame excuses to not follow it. So he's been trying to pick his battles (not that I'm suggesting this is an issue to budge even a millimeter on!) but stirring the pot is definitely a concern. BM has threatened to cut BF off and we don't doubt she would follow through by moving without providing a forwarding address or phone number (she's done it before).

I don't think BFD had any tests so far, at least the doctor's reports BM filed to the court didn't indicate anything happened except discussion with a side of "monitor the condition."

I agree, Smithie, that BF asserting his rights instead of letting BM continue being unreasonable could go a long way in terms of BM's attitude in showing her that he's not going to give up. I hadn't thought about it getting through to her in that way (though I'm not sure a person who's willing to toy with her kid's health can necessarily be reasoned with).

Thankfully BF has always tried and TRIED and tried again to be involved, has gone all the school events which BM informs him about, including school conference, first day of kindergarten, and school Christmas pageant. Now it's easy to know the scheduled dates/times with school schedules being posted online so we don't have to rely on BM or a too young to remember BFD.

I'm optimistic that it's just a phase or something that can be easily cured, but clearly all we can do is take her to the urgent care clinic to be sure. Obviously you only hear my version of the story but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks something's got to be done! Some people tell me that because I'm not a "real" mom, I don't 'get it." :

[Oh the Irony]

I think you get it and yes, something needs to be done. I don't know if it is physical because of the odor issues as Jeannie mentioned or psychological. Or a mixture of both. If it was only nighttime I wouldn't be that concerned.

Urgent care is a good step and your boyfriend can talk to the teacher. Perhaps the teacher could address it with the mom? Not sure how that would work out with all the politics of things...

But her mom is her mom--not her BM.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by autumngrey

Things have been rough lately with BM's accusations, and feeling like the court can't respond fast enough if at all. Lately whenever BF tries to assert his rights BM gets really mad and texts him "words" and files with the court (lies, mostly so blatant that I think most anyone would easily see through them, but her text transcripts really give it away) and BFD comes to us crying that she won't be able to visit anymore, or with instructions that she's not allowed to play while she's at our house (an issue in itself!!). Now even with a partial court order she comes up with lame excuses to not follow it. So he's been trying to pick his battles (not that I'm suggesting this is an issue to budge even a millimeter on!) but stirring the pot is definitely a concern. BM has threatened to cut BF off and we don't doubt she would follow through by moving without providing a forwarding address or phone number (she's done it before).

I agree, Smithie, that BF asserting his rights instead of letting BM continue being unreasonable could go a long way in terms of BM's attitude in showing her that he's not going to give up. I hadn't thought about it getting through to her in that way (though I'm not sure a person who's willing to toy with her kid's health can necessarily be reasoned with).

Thankfully BF has always tried and TRIED and tried again to be involved, has gone all the school events which BM informs him about, including school conference, first day of kindergarten, and school Christmas pageant. Now it's easy to know the scheduled dates/times with school schedules being posted online so we don't have to rely on BM or a too young to remember BFD.

If you think that BM will move and take BFD with her, and she's obviously trying really hard to poison the relationship, your BF needs to get his butt into court and demand it stop. You should start tape-recording your BFD so that you can prove what she's saying, and your BF needs to SAVE and DOCUMENT all texts/times/context that its being done in. BM's behaviour is absolutely out of line, and your BF has a fundamental right to have a relationship with his daughter. Fundamental means HUGE and interfering with that right is also HUGE and shouldn't be allowed to happen. Sitting by idly and allowing his relationship to be interfered with will look bad in court, even if he doesn't want to stir the pot.

And, the wetting problem could very well be related to stress, but from what you said it's much more likely to be b/c BM is trying to make the daughter feel bad about having a relationship with her dad.

ETA - the BM moved and didn't provide a forwarding address?????? WTH? How does she even have custody still??

[autumngrey]

Originally Posted by Oh the Irony

But her mom is her mom--not her BM.

I've got to call her something here. BFD is never going to have another mom, I'm not trying to argue here or to anyone else that I should be mom substitute.

I'd have the same concerns about some random kid with these symptoms.

Originally Posted by thyra

If you think that BM will move and take BFD with her, and she's obviously trying really hard to poison the relationship, your BF needs to get his butt into court and demand it stop. You should start tape-recording your BFD so that you can prove what she's saying, and your BF needs to SAVE and DOCUMENT all texts/times/context that its being done in. BM's behaviour is absolutely out of line, and your BF has a fundamental right to have a relationship with his daughter. Fundamental means HUGE and interfering with that right is also HUGE and shouldn't be allowed to happen. Sitting by idly and allowing his relationship to be interfered with will look bad in court, even if he doesn't want to stir the pot.

And, the wetting problem could very well be related to stress, but from what you said it's much more likely to be b/c BM is trying to make the daughter feel bad about having a relationship with her dad.

ETA - the BM moved and didn't provide a forwarding address?????? WTH? How does she even have custody still??

It's been reported as much as we could (the text transcripts, and personal affidavits of what BFD has said) but nothing absolute has come of it. The problem is that what BFD says BM says isn't necessarily reality and hasn't been allowed (understandably: I wouldn't want what BFD says about BF to hold up in court either--thus far the claims of what BFD has said to BM have been far from the truth).

As for sitting idly by, we've been warned by two lawyers not to report every little nuance or the court would think poorly of it. On the other hand, when BFD was first born and he solicited the help of community services to try to figure out what to do to get access to his kid, the services pretty much told him there was nothing he could do and that he should try to befriend BM to persuade her to let him see BFD. I can't go back in time and make BF get a court order when BFD was born instead of now, but what's done is done. All we can do is try to figure out what to do now and I know there's no single right answer.

As for recording BFD, at what point does it cross the line. I mean, how traumatizing is it to a kid to know that she's being recorded? At some point she's going to figure it out, no matter how carefully we try to keep it from her. Thus far we're focused on supporting her and helping her through whatever is going on whether it's us being biased and reading into the little things she says too much, or it's something bigger.


Just to get BFD every-other weekend has already put us way in debt. I know that the time can never be gotten back once it's passed, but we know we can't afford going for the "full battle" unless there's some real concrete evidence to present ... we'd be in debt to the lawyer for a long time for no gain without it.

Today was a major win: Today, after waiting for 4 months since the last hearing, BF was awarded parenting time for full summers. And now we have concrete order of his right to obtain medical records and care for BFD, we are more "armed" on the issue. Lawyer warned us about the backlash that BM will probably throw. We continue to log everything for the next phase, whatever that may be.

[Smithie]

"Today was a major win: Today, after waiting for 4 months since the last hearing, BF was awarded parenting time for full summers."



That is a big win, especially for a dad who never cohabited with mom and kid. I did not realize that the separation took place pre-birth. I hope that having her over the summer is a great experience for all of you!

The advice your DP got from social services when his daughter was born was terrible. What were they thinking? Is he not on the birth certificate and/or not paying child support? Did they think he was actually not the babydaddy for some reason? Anyhow, really wretched advice...

[autumngrey]

Terrible advice indeed. On the up side, the history files they maintained were submitted to show the court that he's been battling with BM to see his daughter from day zero. At least he didn't do nothing-nothing.

BF has been on the birth certificate and been paying child support since BFD was born.

Even when BM was unwilling to keep him informed, despite his calling her to find out how she and baby were doing, he did everything he could to be involved (talking to her friends to find out when the baby was born and going to the hospital that day no matter how much BM was mad about his being there) and he signed the birth certificate. He's been determined to be a dad from the day he found out about baby. It's just been a rocky road.

He looks back and is bummed about the years he had literally no more than 2 hours every-other month with his daughter. I look at it and am thankful that mom was cooperative enough to give more time (when she had to work on weekends while she was in school) in time for BFD to know him at ages she might remember him being there. I guess I mean I'm thankful BFD won't have the "where was my dad all these years" heartache.

[Smithie]

"I guess I mean I'm thankful BFD won't have the "where was my dad all these years" heartache."



If I live to be a hundred years old, I will never understand women who can take a monthly check from the guy on the birth certificate and then expect to keep him from participating in the life of the child he has fathered, acknowledged and supported. It's insane. I understand wanting to cut bait and run when a relationship goes to heck and you are pg - but staying in town and hitting the guy up for support and THEN acting like he's not the dad? Aaaaaargh. A little consistency, please, ladies!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by autumngrey

It's been reported as much as we could (the text transcripts, and personal affidavits of what BFD has said) but nothing absolute has come of it. The problem is that what BFD says BM says isn't necessarily reality and hasn't been allowed (understandably: I wouldn't want what BFD says about BF to hold up in court either--thus far the claims of what BFD has said to BM have been far from the truth).

As for sitting idly by, we've been warned by two lawyers not to report every little nuance or the court would think poorly of it.

I didn't mean to report every nuance as they come up - but to document document document document document for long periods of time - eventually it will all add up into enough to become a court battle. Or it won't - but if she ever takes you to court over anything, YOU will have the documentation to prove that SHE is in the wrong.

It will also help if there is ever a custody battle that requires the use of a custody evaluator - b/c they are allowed to use a person's journal as evidence of whats been happening. The best you can support it with text messages, emails, etc the BETTER. Get the Dr's records (certified copies) to prove as best you can that she is making allegations about you and BF to the dr. Get the records after you actually do figure out the problem - keep it with your documentation.

If you don't want to record BFD, you can record her mom - are there ever oral fights? Buy a tape recorder, put it in your pocket and turn it on when you or BF are around mom (check your state's eavesropping laws, its legal in most states as long as one party is aware of it) - that way if she lies about things she's said in court, you can pull it out and play the actual conversation to the judge.

As far as sitting by idly - what you don't want is for a judge to think your BF doesn't care. Thats obviously not the case, but if he's trying to not rock the boat to the extent of not going to court over not knowing where his dd is, thats a BIG problem (I know he wouldn't, but thats an example of a time when he needs to get into court immediately - even if he has to represent himself). It's important to pick your battles - but everything needs to be documented so that IF you need to, you can show a PATTERN of behavior.