Comforting Bedtime Ritual Backfires into Sleepless Hell?

[Evie P.]

I'm on child #2, and I know that there were terrible sleepless patches with #1, but I don't remember anything like this.

DD has started interpreting all our wonderful bedtime rituals as the dreaded sleep time and completely freaks out every night after I go through what has always been a sweet and quiet time. It has gotten to the point where I can't get her to bed til 9:30 or 10, and this only by lots of walking with her on my back, finally tricking her onto the boob when she is totally exhausted. And the last few weeks she has started waking at night -- from midnight to three, or right now, from 4 am, wide awake sometimes or other times clearly exhausted by unable to let go of the world, crying like crazy if I try to get her back to sleep, won't really nurse. She has always woken throughout the night, but before she would always just nurse and then go back to sleep, even if it took a while. Now nursing doesn't work most of the time.

Most days naps kind of normally, though sometimes wildly late (sometimes related to the night before but sometimes not) and sometimes on time, for 1-3 hours.

She has been "about to walk" for MONTHS now, on the verge forever and ever, so I don't know if it's finally that. But I feel like I am going to have be hospitalized if I don't get some sleep. I usually am not able to go to bed myself til 12 or 1 because I work while the kids are asleep, after everyone is safe in bed. So I am going on 3-6 hours of not-straight-through sleep for many many weeks.

Am I forgetting something or do I just have to wait this out?

[cristeen]

Is she teething? Sleep turns ugly w teeth around here. Motrin is the only thing that gets us through.

[LCBMAX]

Can't remember when but there was a time when all our bedtime rituals backfired. We gave up, abandoned bedtime rituals, and did lots of walking (ergo on my front allowed for easy transition to nursing when he was ready.) The middle of the night things you describe sound like what we still have about monthly - we call it the 2 am party.

Stay loose, and when you least expect it, she'll be ready for a new bedtime ritual.

Sorry for your sleepiness. I really know about that.

[newbiemama09]

teething made bedtime impossible. i got to the point where i couldn't handle the screaming and kicking and fighting and would make DH put DD to bed. her screams were just too much for me to handle. it helped wonders to get Hyland's teething GEL (not the tablets so much), an Amber teething neclase, and California Baby bath bubbles (specifically the ones for fussy and overtired babies). it was like having a different child! try those to see if teething is the problem.

[redvlagrl]

I would continue with the ritual and try drugging her up with Tylenol as you start the routine (if you think it's teething) so it's kicked in by the time it is bedtime.

Also what time is bedtime? Apparently there is a magic window at 6.30-7pm where it is better for toddlers and babies to go to sleep. It's much harder after that.

We have had a few stages where bedtime has been un-fun. Does your DD understand much? What worked on 23 mth old recently and amazingly was telling her that I was going downstairs to help Daddy clean up and that I wasn't going to come back until sleep time was over. She stoping crying immedietely, lay down quietly and then I left the room. It was like a miracle. Now every night I remind her gently of this and there is no fuss and minimal nursing (10 secs on each side!).

[Evie P.]

Originally Posted by LCBMAX

Can't remember when but there was a time when all our bedtime rituals backfired. We gave up, abandoned bedtime rituals, and did lots of walking (ergo on my front allowed for easy transition to nursing when he was ready.) The middle of the night things you describe sound like what we still have about monthly - we call it the 2 am party.

Stay loose, and when you least expect it, she'll be ready for a new bedtime ritual.

Sorry for your sleepiness. I really know about that.

Thanks for this -- good to know there is a boat to be in the same with! Are you saying that you abandoned ritual for a while and then eventually went back to the old ones? I can do the walking, and in fact do, but wonder if I should be pushing something new (what it would be I do not know!) because now she is going to sleep at 10 pm, and then the daytime nap is late, she wakes up at 5 or 6 pm, and then the whole thing seems to become a never-ending cycle.

[Evie P.]

Originally Posted by newbiemama09

teething made bedtime impossible. i got to the point where i couldn't handle the screaming and kicking and fighting and would make DH put DD to bed. her screams were just too much for me to handle. it helped wonders to get Hyland's teething GEL (not the tablets so much), an Amber teething neclase, and California Baby bath bubbles (specifically the ones for fussy and overtired babies). it was like having a different child! try those to see if teething is the problem.

I can't tell if it's teething because rest of the day she is fine -- was it like that for you? I can try the gel for sure, and the bubbles though I am always scared of bubbles for girls as I had all kinds of infections from that as a kid. But there is no way she is gonna keep a necklace on! How did you get her to do that?!

[Evie P.]

Originally Posted by redvlagrl

I would continue with the ritual and try drugging her up with Tylenol as you start the routine (if you think it's teething) so it's kicked in by the time it is bedtime.

Also what time is bedtime? Apparently there is a magic window at 6.30-7pm where it is better for toddlers and babies to go to sleep. It's much harder after that.

We have had a few stages where bedtime has been un-fun. Does your DD understand much? What worked on 23 mth old recently and amazingly was telling her that I was going downstairs to help Daddy clean up and that I wasn't going to come back until sleep time was over. She stoping crying immedietely, lay down quietly and then I left the room. It was like a miracle. Now every night I remind her gently of this and there is no fuss and minimal nursing (10 secs on each side!).

Thanks for this note! The problem is that we are so far from that window that I don't know how to get back there! That used to be the time we at least started bedtime ritual but with older brother involved, it got later and later, and now because of her new crazy time at night, she goes to bed so late that she won't nap til late (same issue for naptime but I just walk her til she sleeps) that she is waking up from her nap only an hour or two before the magic hour! So I guess all I can do is try to do 15 min earlier each night until we get closer, though I think the problem might still be the same in terms of the ritual. She does not understand much and is still not able to get out of the bed without falling out, so your other idea sounds like a dream from another world. My 5-yr old wouldn't even do that! You are a lucky lady in that regard!!!!! (esp if it's true that Daddy is helping clean up : ) )

[LCBMAX]

Originally Posted by Evie P.

Are you saying that you abandoned ritual for a while and then eventually went back to the old ones? I can do the walking, and in fact do, but wonder if I should be pushing something new (what it would be I do not know!) because now she is going to sleep at 10 pm, and then the daytime nap is late, she wakes up at 5 or 6 pm, and then the whole thing seems to become a never-ending cycle.

Our thing was to totally abandon any ritual/ routine/ discussion of bedtime, and just deal in as happy a way as we could til he toppled over (usually while being walked.) After a while - maybe a month? - a new routine evolved, and the way I remember it is that he:
(one round of this) got more and more dissatisfied with the walking and went back to nursing down in the rocking chair,
and (another round of this - we've been through it a few times) started falling asleep in the ergo so fast that hardly any walking was needed, and then we could add in some bedtime type things again.

He was always the one to show us the way to the new routines, like when he got really into my lotion, and shea butter, and coconut oil - usually I would discourage playing with that messy stuff, but I realized this could segue into a bedtime massage, so I got him naked on a towel and let him go wild. PJs were easy to get into after that, etc. Or, he got attached (briefly) to a stuffed animal, and the animal could lead him through toothbrushing, etc. Or he'd scream at the sight of the ergo and run to the guest bedroom, and then daddy could read books to him in there for a few months. Like that. We just took what he was into and tried to let it be a bedtime thing even if it surprised our original ideas of bedtime.

If my guy slept past 4 (til 18 months) or now past 3pm at nap - forget it. We might as well go out for dinner at 8pm cause there is no bedtime on the horizon. So that's something you could change. Even if she just MUST crash at 3, try to let it be in the car on the way to the park and get her up and going again asap. Better a napless day and a bedtime that allows you to brush your teeth than a late nap and no time for mama. You could also try limiting even the early naps to <2 hours, and getting hyper-on-time with whatever routine you can manage.

The other things that have helped in general:
- get outside as early as possible (we're the crazy people at the playground at 7am) and stay outside as much as possible all day, regardless of weather
- keeping a serious schedule, even if it means you have to stay up til 1am getting the lunches made for the week - out at 7, back at 11, food til 11:30, books til 12, nap or rest til 1:30, out by 2, back at 6, food at 6:30, bath at 7, walk walk walk walk, or whatever. By bedtime you could play it looser since that can be a trigger, but otherwise let her expect everything on time all day for at least a week, and especially let the am wake up and "nap" schedule be constant.
- feed her up at bedtime, lots of fat. When all else fails I give him as much butter as he wants.
- nightwean? I know she's not really benefitting from the night nursing, but maybe that's actually a symptom that she wants/ needs to nightwean and is conflicted because it's still available? My guy gets contradictory like that when it's time for a change.
- the walking will definitely shift something... who knows what, though...

Wishing you lots of insight and patience and energy and caffeine. (Oh yeah, that's the other thing that helped me in the worst of times - changing my caffeine delivery system. I rotate through coffee, mate, black tea as needed.)