GD and food waste/extreme pickiness

[msmiranda]

I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but ... my 3yo is a picky eater beyond belief. It's possible that we caved in to it too much in the past, but it has basically gotten to the point where he eats the following: ww bread, ww tortillas, cheese, ww pasta (only with alfredo sauce my DH makes from scratch, no tomato sauce, sometimes will eat macaroni & cheese), and fruit -- grapes, bananas, apples, strawberries, blueberries, pears, and kiwi. He knows what other foods are because he sees us eat them and sees his baby brother eat them, so he'll say "that's broccoli. I don't like broccoli." and the same for every other food you can imagine. He will not try anything else, puts his hand over his mouth. Oh, I forgot bacon -- that's a new one, and I think he stopped eating chicken at about the time he decided he liked bacon (which he hardly ever gets because we don't eat it very much, occasionally on the weekend with breakfast). And he will eat pizza (but that falls under cheese and bread) and french fries, which are a rare treat or when we are traveling -- but he will not eat potatoes otherwise. Another recent addition is pb&j. He also drinks milk.

I'm of two minds about the situation. One is that I don't want to make food into a power struggle. I do not bring junk food into the house, so while his diet is not ideal, it's marginally acceptable and a sight better than what a lot of kids get. We do not do any type of juice or sweetened drinks at all, no cookies, no candy (except Halloween and other special occasions), no potato chips ... or I guess I should say very, very rarely. I kinda feel like he's the one who is missing out and that food is wonderful and should be its own reward, and that if we keep humoring him and setting a good example, he will come around.

The other mind is annoyed. I was not a picky eater as a child at all -- like everyone, I had a few things I didn't like, but for the most part I ate what was put in front of me. I would like to start doing real family meals, and so I've toyed with the idea of throwing down the gauntlet and saying you eat what we serve or don't eat (and offering something plain like toast as the standing alternative).

But part of me thinks -- especially given that his brother eats pretty much anything put in front of him, which my older son never did -- that picky eating is born more than made and I should just put up with it. And, throwing down the gauntlet would mean even more food waste than we have now (which is considerable as the boy refuses to eat bread crust), and wasting food makes me insane both from a financial perspective and a moral one.

Sorry to go on and on ... the short question is, what does GD have to say about food?

[MamieCole]

I have a similar situation with my 4 year old.

[lilith1]

DS1 (2) just turned from eating whatever is in front of him into a picky eater. Standing alternative is butter sandwich which I know he likes. On days he is refusing that I know he either isn''t hungry or testing his boundaries. The original plate I save and offer with the next meal, if applicable.
I do ponder on how to cut down on waste. I also refuse to be a short order cook for him. I keep trying to offer what we eat, modify for a toddler's taste buds who keep changing anyway.

I'm interested in other responses.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I can tell you what I think GD is...and then I can tell you what I do. ;-)

I think GD would be the parent leading on finding ways to help your DC eat as best as she/he can. There's lots written on this. Things like introducing the same food frequently, providing dips and etc. All kinds of things! I've read them all at one point or another. I do think my actions contribute to the lack of variety of foods that she eats but the job of changing my basic feelings about food and DC's inclinations about food is too much for me.

In the end, I do what you do. I just make the healthiest food for DC that I can get her to eat and don't stress. I let her pick the portions and often finish her food.

[sunnmama]

First of all, that is a decent list of healthy foods your ds eats. It looks like a nutritionally complete diet to me. I see no reason to battle food with him when he is eating a healthy diet.

Second, it looks like he is adding new foods, but slowly. Focus on the positive: he is adding foods! He will continue to add more.

Third, I read that it can take up to 30 exposures for a child to try a new food. I found this to be true with my dd (my ds tries everything the first time!), but I didn't think of her as a picky eater. I kept telling her she was an adventurous eater, lol, even when she was giving my casserole the hairy eyeball.

I think it is important to avoid serving the child a separate meal, reinforcing that some food is for them, and some food is for others. When dd was this age, I would put some of her favorite healthy foods on the table for every meal: small plates of cut cheese, cut tomatoes, grapes, and a small bowl of yogurt, for example. Those small plates would be set out along with the casserole and salad I made for Dh and I. Everything is served family-style (food in the middle of the table, each person choosing what they want and how much). Negative comments on the food, or what others are or are not eating, are not allowed. We will sometimes point out "You only had pasta. How about choosing a fruit or veggie next?" to open up conversations about food groups and nutrition.

I do this at lunch, as well, on a smaller scale. I'll serve a "platter" for me and the child, loaded with small amts of many healthy things--some of their favorites, and some things new. Let the child choose what to take from the platter.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by sunnmama

When dd was this age, I would put some of her favorite healthy foods on the table for every meal: small plates of cut cheese, cut tomatoes, grapes, and a small bowl of yogurt, for example. Those small plates would be set out along with the casserole and salad I made for Dh and I. Everything is served family-style (food in the middle of the table, each person choosing what they want and how much). Negative comments on the food, or what others are or are not eating, are not allowed. We will sometimes point out "You only had pasta. How about choosing a fruit or veggie next?" to open up conversations about food groups and nutrition.

Very nice solution, I think!! Still one that's too complicated for my life...we're grazers and DH and I even eat different foods...oy. But I LOVE the idea!!

[just_lily]

We do something similiar to sunnmama, other than the fact that I plate foods in the kitchen (can't be bothered with serving dishes unless we are having company). I have a fairly picky kid, so I always make sure to put a couple of things on her plate that I know she will eat - fruit, cheese, crackers or bread, certain veggies. And then I also give her a very small amount of what we are having if I don't expect her to dive in.

I got some advice a while back that if you load up a kid's plate they find it very overwhelming. If you give them a huge plate of some casserole they have never had they will automatically think they can't and won't eat it. But if you give them just one or two bites of the new food, along with some familiar foods, they are more inclined to try it... or at least think about trying it. This also has the benefit of cutting down on food waste if they decide not to touch it.

[NellieKatz]

My DS is 7 and is the same way right now. It seems like he's gotten pickier over the years....he seems entrenched in his beliefs. It gets very frustrating. But then I realize that he really does get an overall good diet....he likes plain hummus and organic corn chips or flour tortillas, he likes ww pb&j, or pb & honey, so that's good. He likes lots of cereals and unfortunately (in my newly vegan opinion) turkey hotdogs and grass fed hamburg, I'm blessed that he loves broccoli (because I make it SOOOOO good and yummy....I'd be happy to tell you how). He likes apples with peanut butter or apples and cheese, drinks orange juice once in a while and loves yogurts and soy milk and organic cow milk. He likes rice and black beans and corn. (reading this, I now wonder why I call him picky.....oh that's right. nothing "mixed" -- no soups, no deli sandwiches, no tacos, no casseroles...there's no chance for me to puree and "hide" anything because he likes all his ingredients separate and identifiable....LOL....he would live on mac & cheese if he could) Oh and he likes sweet potatoes and regular potatoes and likes fruit and once in a while eats carrot sticks....hey what's my problem. My kid isn't really that picky! Hmm....thanks for giving me the opportunity to see this....

Bottom line is that he doesn't need to eat a whole "balanced" range of foods at every meal. If your child is eating healthy things over a period of a week or whatever, it really is fine.

My experience has been that the bigger a deal I make, the more he will dig in his heels about something. Kids don't have control over that much of their lives, so it makes sense that they want to control this, I think.

That being said, I do insist that he "eat a balance" at meals if he wants dessert afterward....not finishing all his stuff but at least having a BITE of all the reasonable things I've put out. In other words, I know he likes broccoli and rice and fish sticks. If he snarfs his fish sticks, ignoring the rest, and thinks he's getting cookies for dessert, he is wrong. He must eat at least one bite of rice and broccoli too. He likes them so I'm not forcing him to eat something horrid. I just won't let him get into the habit of skating through dinner and going straight to dessert. His body needs to see good things come through the door on a regular basis. :-)

Oh, and Just Lily, we don't use serving dishes either, but we don't "plate in the kitchen" as you say. We drag the pans to the table and put them on trivets. Probably uncivilized in the eyes of some, but it beats running back and forth to the kitchen to get second helpings. :-)

[freestylemama]

Not allowing negative comments about food is huge. My kid is a really good eater and we've been pretty adamant that she try things, so I really don't have advice about how to get him to eat other things, but I think not talking badly about what is served helps kids have a more positive attitude.

Does he like to help you cook? My daughter has been making our smoothies since she was a young toddler. She puts in the fruits and veggies and presses "on". It's very exciting for her to help and she sees veggies and fruits in a good light because she helps. We also go to farmers markets and I buy any veggies she wants. The other day she put everything in the food processor for pesto and was very proud of "her" creation.

Her former daycare teacher was a genius and did this great thing where she would ask the kids to be quiet and then listen to the sounds their foods made when they ate them. 12 2 year olds would chomp on green peppers or celery or carrots. Sometimes if she doesn't want to eat a crunchy veggie we'll ask her how it sounds and it works really well.

[Mosaic]

I dunno. I used to think pickiness was just a phase. Then I went to a specialist who knows way more about this and has decades of experience showing that in some cases, it's not just a phase but a very challenging issue that needs to be addressed early and aggresively. I think all kids go through times where they won't eat certain things or are reluctant to try new things; but when it continues, and if you feel your feeding your LO things that are not nutritious or balanced, it doesn't hurt to get some outside help. In some cases, it's an oral aversion or some other kind of issue that requires help to work through.

I'd trust your momma gut on this. If it seems like it's just a kid thing, I wouldn't worry. If you're concerned about the patterns that are developing, seeking out a specialist wouldn't hurt.

[catters]

Originally Posted by sunnmama

I think it is important to avoid serving the child a separate meal, reinforcing that some food is for them, and some food is for others. When dd was this age, I would put some of her favorite healthy foods on the table for every meal: small plates of cut cheese, cut tomatoes, grapes, and a small bowl of yogurt, for example. Those small plates would be set out along with the casserole and salad I made for Dh and I. Everything is served family-style (food in the middle of the table, each person choosing what they want and how much). Negative comments on the food, or what others are or are not eating, are not allowed. We will sometimes point out "You only had pasta. How about choosing a fruit or veggie next?" to open up conversations about food groups and nutrition.

Struggling with a picky eating three year old here!

This is an awesome idea. And while I do not ever make "special" meals for the kids, as I don't want to start down that slippery slope (watching this occur with my nephew and nieces made it CLEAR to me that I shouldn't do that, yikes! My poor SIL) anyway... I offer whatever we are eating. The only time I make something special is if what we are cooking is a might too spicy or exotic, so I usually pare down the ingredients for their food. I do tend to be pretty hard core with the notion that he'll eat what we're eating or he'll have to wait until breakfast... Which, of course, is hard, as I obviously want my child to eat! I like the idea of putting everything out family style, including things that he'll like, but not make it "special". I do tend to fix my children's plates for them prior to sitting at the table, and I really do think I need to stop doing this ASAP! I can clearly remember a few months back my son simply popping one after another of brussel sprouts straight from the serving bowl because my husband and I were doing this and they were SOO good and he just started eating them too. Augh! Why don't I learn from these things more!? LOL

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Sunmama's idea also reminds me of this great book, "French Cooking in 15 Minutes". It's a great book!! Lots of the ideas involved cooking just one item and the rest is things like a simple salad, cut carrots, olives, bread, anchovies, butter and other interesting things. When we used to eat together (we've been way off track as I said) I used to do a lot of that.

[jake&zaxmom]

NellieKatz, PLEASE tell us how you make broccoli!!

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by catters

I can clearly remember a few months back my son simply popping one after another of brussel sprouts straight from the serving bowl because my husband and I were doing this and they were SOO good and he just started eating them too.

Yes! My 3 yo does this, too. The other day, he ignored the roasted okra on his plate that I carefully cut and cooled for him, but ate it by the fistful off the serving dish

And I am another one who frequently plops the whole cooking pot on the table, instead of always using a serving dish....

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

Sunmama's idea also reminds me of this great book, "French Cooking in 15 Minutes". It's a great book!! Lots of the ideas involved cooking just one item and the rest is things like a simple salad, cut carrots, olives, bread, anchovies, butter and other interesting things. When we used to eat together (we've been way off track as I said) I used to do a lot of that.

Interesting, because I was hugely influenced by my MIL to serve meals this way. She's Greek, and her tables always look like that. She always has olives, bread, cut veggies (tomatoes and cucumbers), cheese, and spreads like tzaziki and taramosalata on the table I love it! Maybe it is a Mediterranean thing?

[NellieKatz]

Originally Posted by jake&zaxmom

NellieKatz, PLEASE tell us how you make broccoli!!

That made me smile.

Here's what we do: Frozen broccoli florets from Trader Joes, and the 3-pepper frozen "Melange a Trois" mix from Trader Joes. Ok, and a cube of Dorot frozen crushed garlic from Trader Joes. Oh and their olive oil too (organic extra virgin). Tee hee. I guess it's all TJs! Easy to make.

We sautee the ingredients together in the olive oil until the broccoli is very soft. Oh one more ingredient you can't get at TJs, and this is awesome and my son insists on it on all his veggies, and his rice and his potatoes too (we all do): Bragg's Liquid Aminos. Sounds odd as heck, but it's just sort of a soy sauce-like product that doesn't taste Asian. Google it. Once you try Bragg's you will never want to use salt again and won't know how you lived without it.

Available in Whole Foods , (sadly NOT Trader Joe's), natural food stores, and regular stores like Stop & Shop. I know Big Y doesnt have it though.

Good luck!

[Essie]

Originally Posted by msmiranda

I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but ... my 3yo is a picky eater beyond belief. It's possible that we caved in to it too much in the past, but it has basically gotten to the point where he eats the following: ww bread, ww tortillas, cheese, ww pasta (only with alfredo sauce my DH makes from scratch, no tomato sauce, sometimes will eat macaroni & cheese), and fruit -- grapes, bananas, apples, strawberries, blueberries, pears, and kiwi. He knows what other foods are because he sees us eat them and sees his baby brother eat them, so he'll say "that's broccoli. I don't like broccoli." and the same for every other food you can imagine. He will not try anything else, puts his hand over his mouth. Oh, I forgot bacon -- that's a new one, and I think he stopped eating chicken at about the time he decided he liked bacon (which he hardly ever gets because we don't eat it very much, occasionally on the weekend with breakfast). And he will eat pizza (but that falls under cheese and bread) and french fries, which are a rare treat or when we are traveling -- but he will not eat potatoes otherwise. Another recent addition is pb&j. He also drinks milk.

I'm of two minds about the situation. One is that I don't want to make food into a power struggle. I do not bring junk food into the house, so while his diet is not ideal, it's marginally acceptable and a sight better than what a lot of kids get. We do not do any type of juice or sweetened drinks at all, no cookies, no candy (except Halloween and other special occasions), no potato chips ... or I guess I should say very, very rarely. I kinda feel like he's the one who is missing out and that food is wonderful and should be its own reward, and that if we keep humoring him and setting a good example, he will come around.

The other mind is annoyed. I was not a picky eater as a child at all -- like everyone, I had a few things I didn't like, but for the most part I ate what was put in front of me. I would like to start doing real family meals, and so I've toyed with the idea of throwing down the gauntlet and saying you eat what we serve or don't eat (and offering something plain like toast as the standing alternative).

But part of me thinks -- especially given that his brother eats pretty much anything put in front of him, which my older son never did -- that picky eating is born more than made and I should just put up with it. And, throwing down the gauntlet would mean even more food waste than we have now (which is considerable as the boy refuses to eat bread crust), and wasting food makes me insane both from a financial perspective and a moral one.

Sorry to go on and on ... the short question is, what does GD have to say about food?

Omg---this sounds much like our house but we just have DS. He would EVERYTHING when he just started eating solid foods. Then slowly he started rejecting foods and got really picky. Part of it for him was sensory b/c he was repulsed by certain smells of foods. Now, slowly he is trying new things and eating more things and actually says to us that he will try something. He's 8 now and I think 5-6 was when he was most picky.

I would say----I hear you! don't give up b/c he could always change. You never know. I know how annoying it is because personally I am annoyed at adults who are really picky eaters and I hate wasting food just like you. If there's any way you can not let him see that you are annoyed that's good, but I know it's really tough. I always said I would never make different stuff for everyone, but I've kind of wussed out. NOt too much, but when we have stir fry I make ds whole wheat spaghetti for his and rice for us.

Also, I've heard that a good approach is to say "just take 1 bite and try it. If you don't like it you don't have to eat it" You know how if we keep trying things over time that we don't like then eventually we may develop a liking?

I think picky eaters evolve from never "trying" new things, so maybe if you take that road things will improve.

[EdnaMarie]

My daughter was a fantastic eater until she turned three. Then she hit a wall.

We do something along the lines of the Ellyn Satter method. We choose what and when, she chooses whether and how much. She gets a multi-vitamin and DHA. I prepare a wide variety of dinners and we have predictable breakfasts and lunches. The only snacks available from me are fruits.

We don't ask her to try anything, but we do talk it up, and no, she's not allowed to say anything bad about the food. She can say she doesn't like it (though we are teaching her the more diplomatic, "No, thank you") but not, "It's disgusting" because that is rude to the rest of us at the table.

As for bread crusts, my first goes in and out of it, so finally I just started saving them and giving them to her little sister for snacks. LOL That might not work for you. But I also freeze them and we feed them to the ducks some days.

This summer I made popsicles and I'm thinking of doing it again. Basically, I make a smoothie however I'd make it, and then I freeze it in the shape of popsicles. Kids love popsicles. So that's always a big win in terms of nutrition, though massively expensive.

We don't waste because they can't play with food, so if they don't eat it, we put it back in the dish for leftovers. Maybe that's gross but yes we are just about that poor.

[Essie]

I think another thing we often tell our son is that we do NOT waste food and that it's reaally iportant. We say that's why mom and dad go to work, b/c that is how we get $ and you need to actually PAY for food. Hopefully this is sinking in slowly.

[msmiranda]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

My daughter was a fantastic eater until she turned three. Then she hit a wall.

We do something along the lines of the Ellyn Satter method. We choose what and when, she chooses whether and how much. She gets a multi-vitamin and DHA. I prepare a wide variety of dinners and we have predictable breakfasts and lunches. The only snacks available from me are fruits.

We don't ask her to try anything, but we do talk it up, and no, she's not allowed to say anything bad about the food. She can say she doesn't like it (though we are teaching her the more diplomatic, "No, thank you") but not, "It's disgusting" because that is rude to the rest of us at the table.

As for bread crusts, my first goes in and out of it, so finally I just started saving them and giving them to her little sister for snacks. LOL That might not work for you. But I also freeze them and we feed them to the ducks some days.

This summer I made popsicles and I'm thinking of doing it again. Basically, I make a smoothie however I'd make it, and then I freeze it in the shape of popsicles. Kids love popsicles. So that's always a big win in terms of nutrition, though massively expensive.

We don't waste because they can't play with food, so if they don't eat it, we put it back in the dish for leftovers. Maybe that's gross but yes we are just about that poor.

I have totally given my younger son the crusts from DS1's grilled cheese sandwiches! And I put things back in the dish for leftovers, too, if I can.

He never says things are disgusting, he seems to totally understand that we love [broccoli/tomatoes/peaches/whatever]. He seems really open to the concept of vegetables -- we grew some tomatoes on our deck this summer (which I know are technically fruits ...) and he was totally invested in them and super interested in watching them grow, watering them, harvesting them, etc. ... but still wouldn't try any.

It really bothers me that he intuits that we have "endless" food so he can get away with waste. I'm sure that kids in places where there is truly a shortage eat whatever vegetables are given to them because they know there is limited food. There's a lot less waste now because I don't try anymore to serve him anything I know he's unlikely to eat. He has a rotation -- grilled cheese, quesadilla, pb&j, alfredo pasta ... I can't believe that he isn't sick of this stuff but he doesn't seem to be. At his in home day care, he was served whatever was for lunch there, a much larger variety, and very consistently would eat the bread item, cheese, and fruit, and leave the rest. Sigh. Occasionally he would try a bite of something else.

I have heard of Ellyn Satter and was thinking of checking her book out of the library. But it sounds like there is a range of opinion about what to do on this issue ... I will have to give it some more thought.

[Minxie]

Around three children seem to hit a phase wherein they wish to control things so...try giving him some control. I negotiate with my (now)four-year-old son what goes in his lunch box and what we are eating at other meals. It helps that we discuss types of foods such as proteins, vegetables, fruits, and starches. He knows that he needs one of each of these, so we negotiate which he will have. It has created some weird meal combinations but so what? He's eating.

We have lot of discussions about what are healthy foods and what are not, especially when he is looking for a dessert. "Sure, you can have a frozen yogurt for dessert after you eat your green beans. Green beans are VERY healthy and your body needs them to grow."

He helps me grocery shop and cook; sometimes he is the sous-chef and sometimes I am. Cooking dinner gets him VERY excited about eating what he's cooked.

Take the idea of repetition to heart. For the LONGEST time, my son swore he hated green peppers in his scrambled eggs; one day, he asked me to cook them that way and now he always wants them that way.

I cook most of his veg very simply, without spice even. I usually just steam the veg or serve it raw. For example, as a salad he will take spinach with croutons or bacon bits but no cheese, no tomato. I put a tiny bit of salad dressing in a carry container that comes home with most of the dressing still in it. We do use cinnamon a lot though; sweet potatoes, butternut squash and cranberries, dusted on top of fruit salad, etc.

My son also doesn't eat bread crusts so we either put them in the compost bin or don't use bread. One of his favorite lunches right now are ham-and-spinach-rolls, created when he kept taking the ham and spinach out of his ham and cheese sandwiches. He wouldn't eat the cheese or the bread so...I stopped putting it in there. I take three slices of thinly cut ham and lay them on a cutting board. Drop a few spinach leaves on each, roll and cut in half for six rolls. He LOVES them!

We are very big on not wasting food here also; I avoid that by giving him small amounts and using salad plates instead of the large dinner plates. If he has food left on his plate, he puts it into a small container and saves it for later in the fridge. Sometimes he eats it, sometimes I eat it, sometimes it goes into the compost bin.

For weird pickiness anecdata, my son refused to eat french fries for the longest time; they were just a ketchup delivery service. Occasionally, he might deign to try one but it's more likely that he will eat a salad; I, however, LOVE french fries and force myself to eat salads.