GD and food waste/extreme pickiness - Page 2

[Essie]

msmiranda; maybe you can chk out the Ellen Satter book and see what YOU think. Don't worry about other peoples opinions on it.

Also, some foods that my son rejected a while ago he now eats. I'm always sure to show him how excited and glad I am about him trying new things and that I'm so glad he likes something he didn't before. When he tells me he doesn't like certain foods I casually say "well, maybe you will some day". I tell him about myself and how I didn't like mushrooms or avocado when I was his age, but I kept giving them a chance and now they are some of my favorite foods.

I think in terms of waste giving small portions is great. LIke another poster said, do this to avoid waste and I think it sends a message also that we don't just gorge on huge amounts of food. Also, that's a chance to use manners and for little kids to ask for what they want (if it's more).

[EdnaMarie]

I'm sure that kids in places where there is truly a shortage eat whatever vegetables are given to them because they know there is limited food.

I think kids that have true sensory issues will definitely still refuse food until they are quite malnourished (I knew a girl that only ate creamy foods, and she'd mash and mash her soups up, eat yoghurt, and not eat any meat, and who was as a result anemic and quite small for her age). However other kids may work out a deal with an adult, and eat all the rice from a dish to the exclusion of everything else, but since it's a common dish, it's not a big deal. Nothing is wasted.

I do think that a truly hungry child will eat vegetables if those are his only option, barring a serious developmental disorder. But if there is even one other option, the child may remain a bit hungry and half-fill up on potatoes. That does happen.

[provocativa]

my kids did the testing and control issues, and i made a lot of dips and smoothie popsicles during those phases. however, it should be noted to the op that mostly or only wanting to eat wheat and dairy can be a sign of food intolerance of those very items. wheat and dairy both contain opiate peptides, and when not broken down in the gut these actually give the eater a kind of a buzz. people are actually addicted to these foods for this reason. autistic and asperger's kids often have an exacerbated response to these peptides, which interferes with their brain activity. it's an easy issue to google, and it has come up on threads in the allergies section here.

[outlier]

Eek, I feel like I'm reading a thread that my parents could have written about me when I was younger. I was a very picky eater, and I think we're all somewhat amazed I made it out of childhood and grew into a healthy adult! In my case I honestly think it was mostly stubbornness. Even if I had never tried a certain food in my life, if I didn't like the look of it, there was no way it was getting anywhere near my mouth. My parents probably didn't help the situation when they would describe me to others as "their picky eater" while shaking their heads. It kind of became my thing after a while.

I have to say, college was a huge eye-opener for me when it came to food. Some of my favorite foods now are things I wouldn't have tried even as a high schooler, let alone as a young child.

[leighi123]

I would simply not make special meals.

For my ds, I always have just made whatever I feel like making for dinner, and he can eat it, have leftovers from lunch/last night or he can get his own food from his snack cupboard and eat that (his snack cupboard ONLY has very healthy foods like fruit, cut up veggies, plain soy yogart, etc).

That way he still has choices, but I dont go out of my way to make him something special. He is not going to go hungry, unless he chooses to. I dont want to make it a power struggle thing, he has his choices, he knows what they are, pick something or dont eat.

If he chooses not to eat, he is still welcome to sit at the table unless he is goofing around in which case he is allowed to go read books or play until the meal is over. Usually, even if he doesnt want to eat he still sits with us and ends up trying some of the food anyway!

He does have food allergies, but most meals we can make by taking his portion out before adding an ingredient he is allergic to or something like that, but most we just make allergy free from the start b/c its easier. He is a super tiny kid and I did have to 'make him eat' for a while when he was younger b/c he was way underweight, but now that his allergies are under control for the most part, its easier to not worry too much if he skips a meal.

Between meals, he can have food from his snack cupboard, but he knows he must eat at his table and clean up when he is done (so the dog doesnt), b/c of that, he doesnt mindlessly snack spoiling his dinner.

Also, deserts are not an every day thing, so there is no 'eat your dinner or your dont get desert' kind of thing, deserts are just a random special treat (usually when I want something!)

[The4OfUs]

OK, so I am way in the minority on this one when threads like this come up, but we drew a hard line on this one after a year+ of things slowly morphing into "kid food" and "adult food". I just plain got sick of making separate meals/lots of components, or them grabbing a yogurt or cereal or whatever when there was perfectly good, not highly unusually flavored food being made every night for dinner. It started innocently with me fiixing a separate starch if the kids didn't like the one we were having, or a separate protein...and snowballed over the course of a year to basically making 2 meals every single night because I wa sjust too emotionally spent form other things to have drama at mealtime. But I got tired of it and felt like it was ridiculously privileged for us to be living like that and the kids expecting to hav ehteir favorite foods at every meal and snack every day.

So the lightbulb moment came one day when thinking about "not liking" food. The lightbulb was that you don't have to like everything you eat. Some foods may not be your favorites, some you may not even like, but they are good for you and good fuel for your body and cooking and sharing a meal (not sharing a table with 2 different meals) is an important value DH and I wanted to pass to the kids. And we told htem EXACTLY that. We prepped them for several days that we would be changing things and had several conversations about food and likes and favorites and dislikes and things that truly are objectionable/make you truly ill. We would point out that maybe mommy wasn't in the mood for spaghetti tonight but it's what daddy made, and it's healthy and so I ate it and wound up enjoying it. Or that daddy doesn't like rice at all, but when mommy makes meals with rice he eats some because that is what's been made. None of the foods we make are unusual, so we just got to the point where it was ridiculous that they "didn't like" a chicken breast with potatoes and green beans and were getting a separate spread of food, so that's pretty much what they were given and what they had to eat. I made sure there was always one item they liked, and they only got a few small bites of the other things at first to ease them into it. But they did have to eat it.

I won't lie, it wasn't pretty for a few nights. There was LOUD protest from DD who was about 3 when we started this, and a few very LONG dinners. DS was a little over 5. We were sympathetic, but firm. In the beginning there was always one thing in the meal plan that they liked so they wouldn't starve, but they needed to have X # of bites of everything else, too.

Now, they both have some texture and flavor profiles that they truly, truly find objectionable and we do not force those on them - For instance, neither of them will eat casseroles, stews, or soups where there are a bunch of things mixed together in a creamy/liquidy medium, so we don't force that on them - they can have a PBJ or whatever those nights. I still, after trying dozens and dozens of times throughout my life, don't like fresh fish (I like shrimp, and tolerate lobster, but that's about it), and it's a texture thing - so I get that people can have true objections to some foods (but it's usually just a category and not MOST foods beign disliked) - and I also realize that some people have sensory issues or other medical reasons to not eat things. But for *most* people with no sensory/medical issues, having only a handful of foods you "like" I think has more to do with beign used to favorites and not pushing your comfort zone to broaden horizons, and less to do with actually "disliking" things.

Since we implemented "Operation Victorian Orphanage" (as DH and I called it in private), their horizons have expanded greatly. Just today my 6-1/2 yo son picked out spicy shrimp sushi for lunch out today and GOBBLED it down, to the amusement of several families nearby.

For regular old meats, starches, and veggies not prepared in really unusual ways, they each get as many small bites as their age. If they want more of anything they have to finish all their firsts before they get seconds of anything. And we always have a salad/raw veggies with every dinner, which they both have loved since before they were 1 year old.

They get to select their breakfast, their lunch, and their snacks every day from their favorite foods. And they each have a "choose night" for dinner every week where they pick the dinner menu. So for just 5 meals out of 21 (+ 14 snacks) every week, they eat what we prepare whether it's their favorite foods, whether they like it or not...I don't think that's unreasonable at all. :

I feel SO much better about mealtimes as a family, and things are so much more peaceful. For several weeks every night before dinner we would prep/remind them about what to expect and what we expected from them. I was feeling really......excessive....about catering to their tastes so much, it just felt very privileged to me and I didn't like the value it was passing to them. This feels WAY better, and everyone is truly OK with the foods we eat. They occasionally might try to pull a fast one on us, but we gently but firmly remind them that dinenr is dinner and they have a TON of choice all week, and this is what's being served and is what we'll all eat.

[Essie]

Originally Posted by outlier

Eek, I feel like I'm reading a thread that my parents could have written about me when I was younger. I was a very picky eater, and I think we're all somewhat amazed I made it out of childhood and grew into a healthy adult! In my case I honestly think it was mostly stubbornness. Even if I had never tried a certain food in my life, if I didn't like the look of it, there was no way it was getting anywhere near my mouth. My parents probably didn't help the situation when they would describe me to others as "their picky eater" while shaking their heads. It kind of became my thing after a while.

I have to say, college was a huge eye-opener for me when it came to food. Some of my favorite foods now are things I wouldn't have tried even as a high schooler, let alone as a young child.

Hey, that's great that you turned a corner with food! Some people seem to never want to try new things and to me it seems sad to miss out on foods that are so good since food is one of my fave things!

[mamazee]

First, I'm lucky that if there are leftovers in the fridge, they will absolutely get eaten, so we don't have much waste. That's where I'm coming from so you can decide how applicable what we do is to your situation.

I serve my dd some of what we have. If it's something with parts, I try to keep the parts separate for her before I mix them for us. I put a bit of it on her plate, and if she says she doesn't like it, she can fix herself one of a very few (and all healthy) things. The other things are not exciting, as if they were more intresting than what the main meal was she'd always choose that. And she has to get it herself, and did when she was 3.

I agree that the food has to be sitting in front of a child quite a few times before they'll feel comfortable with it, and eventually she always tries things, and at 8 she eats almost always what we have now. There are only a couple of things she still won't eat. And she knows if she won't eat it she has to get her own food.

[heartmama]

I don't think your child sounds picky for his age and the foods he picks are very healthy. Ds was about the same at 3 years old. I think variety is over-rated in the west. Most three year olds around the world survive on some breastmilk and the local starch, fruits/greens, and meat. This is usually the same choice at every meal, every day, all year long. And some of these kids are in the longest lived countries in the world.

Sometimes I think this idea that we need all this variety in the west is a way to make us good consumers, rather than good eaters.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Interesting perspective, Heartmama! On the other hand, I really liked Heather's perspective as well. Good thread.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by heartmama

I don't think your child sounds picky for his age and the foods he picks are very healthy. Ds was about the same at 3 years old. I think variety is over-rated in the west. Most three year olds around the world survive on some breastmilk and the local starch, fruits/greens, and meat. This is usually the same choice at every meal, every day, all year long. And some of these kids are in the longest lived countries in the world.

Sometimes I think this idea that we need all this variety in the west is a way to make us good consumers, rather than good eaters.

This is such a good point to keep in mind, and so relevant when the child gets almost only healthy choices.

[mamaofthree]

this is a topic close to my heart and every time it comes up i have to remember that everyone has different views on what is expectable and what is not.

i grew up in a house that forced eating, cleaning the plate and eating foods you didn't like (even when it was known) the punishment (in my mind then and to this day) was very harsh. i promised myself that i would never make eating a battle.

having 5 kids of all different ages and stages i have found that they all seem to go thru somewhat of a "picky" stage. with dd (our first) i would make her try bites, she would sometimes sit at the table for a long time to try a bite of this or a bit of that. it was awful. and to this day i feel bad that we did that. it didn't make it better, she wasn't less picky it just made meal time a HUGE PIA. and a time that i dreaded every single day. now dd (at 16) only has a handful of foods she actually dislikes (like most people have a few things they don't enjoy at all), the other kids are all in different stages of "pickiness" my 12 year old ds#1 is coming around and is really into trying new things. the younger boys (one who has texture issues) are all still in a "picky" stage and have foods they like much more then others.
I DO NOT make separate meals. i LOVE to cook and bake and experiment. (so sometimes i make stuff that even i don't like at all.) and if dinner looks unappealing and/or tastes nasty to someone there is always a sandwich or fruit if they want it. and they can get it themselves.

i guess i have come to the decisioned that i can not control this in my kids, this is an area that they have control over. and i would not like it if someone came to me and said you have to eat 38 bites of this food you dislike because i said so and you have to at least try this thing i know you don't like because i am bigger then you. if what is in the house is good to eat then i think most kids will eat what they need. if you don't want them only eating cookies, then don't have them in the house (or make them yourself and make them healthy so you don't mind if they eat them). have alot of good healthy food around and then let them pick for themselves.
i do like to have a sit down dinner every night and so we do. like i said i don't make special meals but 9/10 at least one thing being served is stuff they all like and they eat that. and if after dinner they are hungry for something else then they are welcome to it. with a big family (5 kids two adults) i don't normally have left overs and if i do dh takes them to work for lunch or dd eats them when she gets home from school or i eat them. lol so there isn't alot of waste.

h

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

with dd (our first) i would make her try bites, she would sometimes sit at the table for a long time to try a bite of this or a bit of that. it was awful. and to this day i feel bad that we did that. it didn't make it better, she wasn't less picky it just made meal time a HUGE PIA. and a time that i dreaded every single day.

See, and in our house it made a HUGE difference, they became LESS picky, and made DH and me STOP dreading mealtime. I think a lot of this depends on the kid and *why* they are in a picky stage.

[heartmama]

Yes it is always good to remember when reading threads that you are just mining for ideas, and you can't know which will work with your child. That is a good point, that the reason for a behavior varies, so the solution will vary. I have seen an approach work miracles with one child, and make another child frantic with distress.

[Essie]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

See, and in our house it made a HUGE difference, they became LESS picky, and made DH and me STOP dreading mealtime. I think a lot of this depends on the kid and *why* they are in a picky stage.

This is very true. Some kids are picky maybe b/c they are experimenting with control or lack of. Some kids (like mine) have sensory stuff going on and something that one kid loves (yogurt) may have a smell that is purely disgusting to another (like mine). Then 1-2 years later, they like yogurt again and try new things. Hopefully parents who enjoy a wide variety of foods will influence their kids eating. It just depends though. I love and try many things and my parents always have too. My sister on the other hand, will not eat certain meats b/c they are "too cute" like duck & rabbit. She won't eat lamb and rarely eats beef. She won't eat pork b/c her husband won't, and neither of them eat fish at all. I love all of the above, so go figure!

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by heartmama

I have seen an approach work miracles with one child, and make another child frantic with distress.

THis is like the playful parenting 'get outrageous' technique where a kid wants something and you go outrageous with it like, "yeah, I wish our whole house was made of cookies!" type thing to make it fun and light - my daughter loves it and gets in on it and we laugh hysterically. My son? ZOMG, makes him ANGRY like you're mocking him and/or saying his wants are ridiculous. We learned that the hard way.

[mamaofthree]

also, something to consider... not every person does well on the same diet. i know i feel better eating meat, but some people feel better being vegan. i think we (i know i have) think that just because they are kids they don't know what makes them feel good to eat. so maybe a big hunk of meat isn't ideal for them, OR maybe not eating meat isn't ideal for them.
i still believe that if you have in the house food you don't mind them eating all day (like the snacks and stuff) then they will make a "balanced" meal over a period of a few days. they will get what they need. so if the occational cookie comes in it isn't a big deal because over all their daily intake of food is good. maybe not each meal, but thru out the day/days.

h

[Essie]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

THis is like the playful parenting 'get outrageous' technique where a kid wants something and you go outrageous with it like, "yeah, I wish our whole house was made of cookies!" type thing to make it fun and light - my daughter loves it and gets in on it and we laugh hysterically. My son? ZOMG, makes him ANGRY like you're mocking him and/or saying his wants are ridiculous. We learned that the hard way.

That's a great idea. I'm gonna have to try that!