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is this what happens when one becomes assertive?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I've recently become aware that I have not been acting assertively, to my own detriment, and probably for the common purpose of avoiding conflict and pleasing others. This summer, I decided to do something about it. Perhaps it was that not being assertive started to cost more than what I thought it would cost to be assertive.
The biggest fear of a non-assertive person is what will happen if she asserts herself, and one of the exercises that can be done to help with this worry is for the worried person to imagine the worst possible outcome: What is the worst that can happen?

In my case, I feel like the worst possible case is happening now that I'm asserting myself.

Briefly, I am noticing that "friends" are responding very defensively to my assertiveness, and I am now second-guessing whether I'm doing it "right". For instance, am I too assertive, to the point of aggressive? On examination, I really don't think so, but how would I know?

There is one person in particular that is responding very defensively and whenever I assert myself with her, she minimizes my feelings and somehow tries to make it sound like the problem lies with me, that I'm over-reacting. For several years, I have played doormat in this friendship, so perhaps it's a shock to this person?

I was hoping that I would feel empowered after asserting myself a few times, but instead I'm left feeling more nervous about doing so again because the response has been so negative.

Basically what I'm doing is saying "this isn't okay with me. I feel disrespected when you (don't show up when we've made plans, etc.)." And then I get back something like: "well, I have x excuse, and it isn't a big deal anyway." Then I say: "it matters to me because I spent a lot of time and energy getting ready and coordinating things so I could meet you, and I feel disrespected when you just don't show up." And then, back: "well, sorry about that, but I can't believe we're even having this conversation. You're making a big deal out of nothing."

Is this what is going to keep happening when I assert myself?

Perhaps this will keep happening until I surround myself with people who are much more respectful and mature and who value my friendship?

How do I get to a place where this response doesn't hurt my feelings, where I can just say to myself that it's not worth my tears? I guess I'm just disappointed about realizing people I thought were friends really weren't.
post #2 of 21
I'm sorry. It's hard when you suddenly start to assert yourself and others don't allow you to and don't allow you to have your feelings and disrespect you. I think you should keep being assertive and respect yourself. Maybe give your friend some time to adjust to this new you or take some time off from her and see how it goes.
post #3 of 21
When we have formed unhealthy habits, and we start forming new, healthy ones, the people around us cannot suddenly be expected to grow healthy habits to go with ours. Your friend sounds like she isn't in a very healthy, respectful place at this point. So, you asserting yourself is certainly going to cause her discomfort, which she is obviously dealing with by trying to make it your problem and not hers. Perhaps your friends will learn to grow to accommodate your new healthy habits, and/or perhaps you will find that more healthy people are attracted to you as you become more healthy yourself. I know that I have certainly struggled with friendships as I have shed my unhealthy habits, but I'm finally finding myself naturally surrounded with people whom I really appreciate and who are in tune with my healthier habits.

Good luck! And do keep asserting yourself.
post #4 of 21
"When you say that my feelings are nothing, I feel ..."

People are jarred by change. And it's extra hard when the people to whom we would usually turn for support are the people we're having conflict with!

I would say let it go for now. Next time you have plans, decide how long you're willing to wait, make a back up plan, and leave after your window has passed. This is not a passive-aggressive, set-her-up-to-fail scenario. Simply go about your business and if she asks where you were you can calmly explain that you were there until X:XX and then had some other things to do. Either she will get with the program or she will fall away.

This is super hard, but you are giving her power to hurt you that you should not be giving. You are letting her actions -- being late -- define who you are -- someone who is not respected. Her tardiness is not about you, it's about her. She doesn't value punctuality.

You've tried the I statements: please stop doing this, essentially. Now you might consider not letting her do it anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguine_speed View Post
I've recently become aware that I have not been acting assertively, to my own detriment, and probably for the common purpose of avoiding conflict and pleasing others. This summer, I decided to do something about it. Perhaps it was that not being assertive started to cost more than what I thought it would cost to be assertive.
The biggest fear of a non-assertive person is what will happen if she asserts herself, and one of the exercises that can be done to help with this worry is for the worried person to imagine the worst possible outcome: What is the worst that can happen?

In my case, I feel like the worst possible case is happening now that I'm asserting myself.

Briefly, I am noticing that "friends" are responding very defensively to my assertiveness, and I am now second-guessing whether I'm doing it "right". For instance, am I too assertive, to the point of aggressive? On examination, I really don't think so, but how would I know?

There is one person in particular that is responding very defensively and whenever I assert myself with her, she minimizes my feelings and somehow tries to make it sound like the problem lies with me, that I'm over-reacting. For several years, I have played doormat in this friendship, so perhaps it's a shock to this person?

I was hoping that I would feel empowered after asserting myself a few times, but instead I'm left feeling more nervous about doing so again because the response has been so negative.

Basically what I'm doing is saying "this isn't okay with me. I feel disrespected when you (don't show up when we've made plans, etc.)." And then I get back something like: "well, I have x excuse, and it isn't a big deal anyway." Then I say: "it matters to me because I spent a lot of time and energy getting ready and coordinating things so I could meet you, and I feel disrespected when you just don't show up." And then, back: "well, sorry about that, but I can't believe we're even having this conversation. You're making a big deal out of nothing."

Is this what is going to keep happening when I assert myself?

Perhaps this will keep happening until I surround myself with people who are much more respectful and mature and who value my friendship?

How do I get to a place where this response doesn't hurt my feelings, where I can just say to myself that it's not worth my tears? I guess I'm just disappointed about realizing people I thought were friends really weren't.
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice! I appreciate it.

I'm finding with this one particular person that so far each individual thing that I assert myself about is unique. For example, she has not been late habitually, there was only the one time she didn't' show up. It was her response to my telling her that I didn't like that she didn't show up without an explanation that I find upsetting. There are other things that have come up that I'm not standing up for myself about, and I guess only time will tell if there is an opportunity for me to not allow her to do those things again.
post #6 of 21
I don't know...I would not stay friends with someone who confronted me about my being late. Even if I was late a couple of times. I am quite assertive, but I don't confront my friends much, I think of friendship as a relationship built on grace and kindness. If someone habitually does something that bothers me, I stop hanging out with them. My mom is a great person but she confronts friends and now she has no friends. Every time she confronts someone it has been valid and respectful, but why stay friends with someone who takes your mistakes personally?

I don't think it is okay or kind to be very late and make someone wait for me. I would be very apologetic and feel terrible. Actually, this happened recently. My babysitter didn't show up and I didn't figure it out until my friend had waited at a restaurant for 40 minutes. Ack. She ended up getting food to go and bringing it to my house. It was partly my fault, I hadn't verified things very well with the babysitter.

Anyway, how late was your friend? Did she apologize? I am just wondering what the circumstances where. It matters because your actions may have been assertive or aggressive depending on the circumstances.

It takes a lot to self-examine and consciously change your actions. Good for you! This person may just be inconsiderate and it was time for you to assert yourself...

oops, I just noticed, she didn't show up at all? And didn't call? Was it an honest mistake? Does she do stuff like this often?
post #7 of 21
I notice this alot when I make friends with moms who are younger than I am. Maybe its the 'decade' or something but honestly if we made plans I expect the other person to show up. If you're not going to show call me, email me, text me... be a responsible ADULT. Yes things happen but you should have a pretty good idea of where you need to be and when.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their own feelings, while the other person may not agree with them they should understand that everyone has feelings and varied feelings.

As much as I hate to say it, friendships for me don't work out too well with folks under the age of 30 or so. Its a 'decade' thing or something. (im in my mid 30's)
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azgirl View Post
oops, I just noticed, she didn't show up at all? And didn't call? Was it an honest mistake? Does she do stuff like this often?
No, she didn't show up or call at all. And when I asked her about it, she said it was no big deal. It was at that point that I said "I feel disrespected by your response..."
post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra15 View Post
I notice this alot when I make friends with moms who are younger than I am. Maybe its the 'decade' or something but honestly if we made plans I expect the other person to show up. If you're not going to show call me, email me, text me... be a responsible ADULT. Yes things happen but you should have a pretty good idea of where you need to be and when.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their own feelings, while the other person may not agree with them they should understand that everyone has feelings and varied feelings.

As much as I hate to say it, friendships for me don't work out too well with folks under the age of 30 or so. Its a 'decade' thing or something. (im in my mid 30's)
I'm not sure if you think this is age-related, but neither of us is under 30 and we both have children, families, advanced educations, careers...and are generally responsible. This particular friend has just been disrespectful on a few occasions recently and when I've called her on it has become defensive.
post #10 of 21
I think it's good that you said something, and it wasn't respectful of your friend to not show up. I do think the wording "I feel disrespected" is likely to cause defensiveness - even though you are saying I feel, it comes across as an accusation. I feel hurt, or I feel angry, are more about your feelings and generally get a better response in my experience.

Also part of it is that when you set new limits with anyone, kids or adults, they may have a hard time with it at first.
post #11 of 21
Yes, actually, this is what happens when you become assertive. (At least with some people.) Remember, even though technically you're making changes and not asking her too. You really are asking her to change as well. Not everyone wants to change and a lot people certainly don't want to change on someone else's timetable.

But being assertive can help you weed out the people you don't want in your life. If you don't mind her not showing up, then there is no problem. But she's clear, she does not mind not showing up and doesn't want to be called on it. So the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to be friends with someone like this?

I do think it's good that you're being conscious about being aggressive. It's really easy for those of us that have been passive to swing past assertive right into aggressive. It's a tricky balancing act and discovering it is harder for some people than other. But really, aren't real friends the ones that love you even when you're a bit crazy? Rather than the people that just like you because they can walk all over you?
post #12 of 21
I wouldn't say you're even being assertive. You're just voicing how your friend's actions (or inaction, as it were) left you feeling. Talking about how you feel and treating each other with respect are two key things you need for a good friendship. If your friend doesn't care about your feelings, then she's no friend.

Not calling when late or not showing at all are huge peeves of mine. I once had a friend who would complain to me ALL THE TIME about a "friend" of hers who constantly blew her off, and she was miserable. She said she loved hanging out with me b/c she knew that no matter what, I'd always show. And that's true. I'm very reliable, and very respectful of other people's time, and we had a great friendship b/c we were both very punctual. Then something happened in her family, and she vented to me about it a lot. I tried to help, but really in hindsight I shouldn't have; I should have just empathized. I thought I was supporting her, but maybe not. At any rate, I'll never know exactly why (this is just my suspicion in hindsight), but she blew me off for plans one day. I called her to make sure she was okay, and she said, yeah, something happened, sorry. I said no problem, and we made plans again. Before we were supposed to get together that time, she called and cancelled. I asked her if there was something wrong, since it was so unlike her to do this (and during these conversations she'd been telling me about going out with other friends, so it's not like she was cancelling all her plans, just those with me). She said no, she just felt overwhelmed and couldn't go to THIS thing. Okay, fine. I gave her some space, thinking she'd call to get together when she felt better. Nope. So after a few weeks I called her again (at this point we'd had a standing weekly workout "date" that we'd missed for awhile) and asked if she wanted to do it this week. She exploded, saying I was putting too much pressure on her, and that she felt that I was very rude to demand an explanation of why she didn't show the day she blew me off. Seriously, I called to make sure she wasn't sick, and when she said she was fine, I just said, "Okay, b/c you blew me off, and that's not like you, so I wanted to be sure you were okay." NOTHING about being mad/annoyed/whatever, NOTHING about how inconvenient it was for me and how rude it was of her. And yet I was pressuring her.... I think she wanted out of the relationship, thought that since I *HATE* rudeness like that so much that if she did it, I'd be pissed enough to yell at her, fight with her, dump her as a friend but I didn't. So she just flipped out on me instead, and that was it.

That was ages ago, and I haven't tried to contact her since. I got the message. I would love to know why, as I can only guess, but really, in the end, it doesn't matter. She was a lot of fun to hang out with but she was also a self-absorbed drama queen who was truly unable to be a real friend due to her own insecurities and family issues. So even though I'm the one who got "dumped," in the end it was the best thing.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by azgirl View Post
I don't know...I would not stay friends with someone who confronted me about my being late. Even if I was late a couple of times. I am quite assertive, but I don't confront my friends much, I think of friendship as a relationship built on grace and kindness. If someone habitually does something that bothers me, I stop hanging out with them. My mom is a great person but she confronts friends and now she has no friends.
So rather than confront and risk losing a friend, instead you "keep" the friend by never seeing them?
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
So rather than confront and risk losing a friend, instead you "keep" the friend by never seeing them?
Hmm. I just NEVER EVER confront my friends. I don't think I have ever had someone not show up and not call, though. If that happened I would probably call them and express extreme worry that something must have happened to them. If it happened more than once I just wouldn't make plans with them again. I have two friends that have disappointed me many times over the years. I could have confronted them many times. Instead, I chose to let it go. Both friendships are now almost 20 years old now and they are now reliable, deep friendships...people who would fly across the country if I needed them to. Granted, most flakiness and hurtful behavior occurred long before our thirties...both have expressed how much it means to them to have a friend who stuck by them through thick and thin...and, since I am far from perfect, I feel the same way.

I have many deep friendships now (after being a lonely child, teen and young adult) so I feel like I have some perspective.

I was in a situation a few years ago where I hurt/disappointed a good friend. (I did not realize I was doing it at the time and it WAS disrespectful) I heard about it after the fact (our husbands are close) but she never confronted me (we were in some conflict at the time, so it wasn't fake-y, just she was frustrated and tense with me during the situation, she also did a couple of dumb passive-aggressive things in return) Anyway, we are now just so so close (I haven't gone a week without talking to her in over 4 years) I don't think we would be this close if she had confronted me. She just chalked it up to the circumstances of the time and let it go. In retrospect it was a tense, awkward time that brought out the worst in both of us. That's what I do. I assume my friends are going through something and that is why they are being flaky or a bit rude. If someone builds me up and makes me feel good, I stay friends with them. If someone tears me down or makes me feel bad, I keep my distance. I guess I feel like toxic people don't respond to confrontation, so why bother? And if they are decent and non-toxic, they probably don't need or deserve crap from me. We all have so much crap to deal with already in this life. I want to be a refuge for my friends, not another source of stress.

I have some friends that are always late. 20-30 minutes. If I didn't want to wait I wouldn't make plans with them. I don't think decent people make plans and just not show up unless they are confronted with an extreme emergency.

But, yeah, even my super-flaky friends have never just not shown up...I don't even know what I would do. I wouldn't confront, though unless they pushed to hang out and wanted to know why.

I have one friend who has confronted/expressed displeasure at my actions a couple of times. Sigh. She considers me a close friend, but I feel pretty distant from her. I feel like if I did something bad enough to confront me about it, why the heck does she want to talk to me so much or hang out with me so much. It weirds me out, honestly. The second time she confronted me I stopped speaking to her (granted, the confrontation was immature, passive-aggressive etc. but most people are not experts on non-violent communication). She sought me out and apologized profusely because she desperately missed our friendship. Ironically, she has trouble being a doormat and a people-pleaser too...hmmm...(FTR, she was deeply disappointed that I didn't throw her a thirtieth birthday party)

I have another friends who did something a year ago that really hurt my feelings. I even talked to my mom and husband several times about it. In the year since I have realized and discovered more about the situation. I am so glad I didn't say something snarky. We weren't close enough at the time for me to confront her even if I was the confronting type. It may have been something she could have explained, but it probably would have put a damper on our friendship (at the time I wasn't even interested in developing a friendship, but it has blossomed nonetheless).

I have a good friend that I lived with for a couple of years. In two years we never had a confrontation even though she did plenty of annoying things. A few years later we were really really drunk and I mentioned to her that she probably didn't know all the things she did that really bugged me, because I never said anything. She replied that she never said anything either and up until that point I assumed I was a perfect room mate...In that moment I realized that all along I was irritating her sometimes too. Maybe we would have weathered confrontations just fine, but ten years later and living in different states we are still close, so not airing grievances worked just fine.

I guess that's it: over the course of time I have always figured out the reason for flakiness after the fact. In almost every case we have been able to talk about it later; like "ah, so that's why you didn't return my calls for two months!!" I have NEVER not been very glad I was a forgiving, faithful friend. I am constantly humbled that I, for the most part, have friends that return the favor.

I should add that I have a pretty good radar for toxic, dysfunctional people. I have plenty of them in my family. I am also extremely assertive, and am not a people-pleaser.
post #15 of 21
I don't get it. Why are confrontation and non-violent communication/forgiving/faithfulness mutually exclusive? No one ever said confronting someone about something they did annoying/hurting your feelings ever had to be toxic. But you and your roommate were very lucky that all the annoying things you did to each other didn't ruin the friendship. So many times I have seen good friends move in together and then the friendship ended b/c of "annoying" roommate stuff that neither wanted to bring up with the other. They finally got fed up and moved out and ended the friendship. Ridiculous, when you can just clear the air and move on. And I, too, don't get how you can be friends with someone you have no desire to get together with.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katwoman View Post
Yes, actually, this is what happens when you become assertive. (At least with some people.) Remember, even though technically you're making changes and not asking her too. You really are asking her to change as well. Not everyone wants to change and a lot people certainly don't want to change on someone else's timetable.

But being assertive can help you weed out the people you don't want in your life. If you don't mind her not showing up, then there is no problem. But she's clear, she does not mind not showing up and doesn't want to be called on it. So the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to be friends with someone like this?

I do think it's good that you're being conscious about being aggressive. It's really easy for those of us that have been passive to swing past assertive right into aggressive. It's a tricky balancing act and discovering it is harder for some people than other. But really, aren't real friends the ones that love you even when you're a bit crazy? Rather than the people that just like you because they can walk all over you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by swd12422 View Post
I don't get it. Why are confrontation and non-violent communication/forgiving/faithfulness mutually exclusive? No one ever said confronting someone about something they did annoying/hurting your feelings ever had to be toxic. But you and your roommate were very lucky that all the annoying things you did to each other didn't ruin the friendship. So many times I have seen good friends move in together and then the friendship ended b/c of "annoying" roommate stuff that neither wanted to bring up with the other. They finally got fed up and moved out and ended the friendship. Ridiculous, when you can just clear the air and move on. And I, too, don't get how you can be friends with someone you have no desire to get together with.

to both of those. And perhaps it is because the deepness of intimacy varies for different people and a confrontation, explanation, emotional recovery is closer than some people want to be with their 'friends'.
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by swd12422 View Post
I don't get it. Why are confrontation and non-violent communication/forgiving/faithfulness mutually exclusive? No one ever said confronting someone about something they did annoying/hurting your feelings ever had to be toxic. But you and your roommate were very lucky that all the annoying things you did to each other didn't ruin the friendship. So many times I have seen good friends move in together and then the friendship ended b/c of "annoying" roommate stuff that neither wanted to bring up with the other. They finally got fed up and moved out and ended the friendship. Ridiculous, when you can just clear the air and move on. And I, too, don't get how you can be friends with someone you have no desire to get together with.
Yah, they absolutely should not be mutually exclusive...but...I don't know many people who are great at non-violent communication. I have experience very few instances where someone aired grievances in a non-violent productive way...

I totally agree that I am lucky. I feel incredibly lucky for all my friendships!

I simply haven't had a friendship end because I failed to "clear the air and move on". I guess I "clear the air" in my mind and heart and move on. Maybe I am missing something...

I am not sure what you guys mean about having friends I don't hang out with...I just said that, rather than confront, I: get over it or stop hanging out. What is weird about that? What does it mean to "have friends" do you guys think I should give people notice that I am not their friend anymore? That seems petty and hurtful. Maybe I am not communicating well. Don't we all have friends that we don't hang out with because of various reasons? Distance, time, schedules? What difference does it make why? Sometimes people just drift apart. Either way, it's been over 10 years since I have chosen to stop hanging out with someone, so it isn't an issue that comes up much anymore.

So, I know my way is not the norm and the way I do things (or describe what I do, at least) seems weird to some of you. Fair enough. But I just wanted to offer my perspective I am here a lot because there are so many areas of my life I need help/growth with. Friendships are just something I AM successful at. As measured by what my friends say and write to me about our friendships as well as how nurtured and supported I feel by my friends.

Also, I don't totally trust that I am the best communicator (I don't think I do the best job of communicating in posts, that's for sure) and I would rather just give people the benefit of the doubt unless they do something too egregious to ignore, and it's been over 10 years since anything like that has happened... I don't sit around seething and not saying anything. I just choose not to get too angry, or annoyed or irked. Is that really so weird? I am just so happy with the state of my friendships, many of them 10 or 20 years old at this point...

Now I just need to master family relationships....in those I somehow manage to be too confrontational and aggressive, ugh. My non-violent communication skills are improving though!!
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
to both of those. And perhaps it is because the deepness of intimacy varies for different people and a confrontation, explanation, emotional recovery is closer than some people want to be with their 'friends'.
This makes it sound like you are saying that I must not have very deep relationships if I am not going through the process of confrontation, explanation and emotional recovery. Am I misreading? I have intensely deep relationships. As an introvert, casual relationships are uncomfortable and difficult for me.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by azgirl View Post
...
So, I know my way is not the norm and the way I do things (or describe what I do, at least) seems weird to some of you. Fair enough. But I just wanted to offer my perspective ...
I don't think you're weird, I'm just trying to understand. I think you clarified a little bit in this last post. I admire your ability to move on and find ways around the things that annoy you.
post #20 of 21
I think when one has been a "doormat" for the entire relationship and suddenly starts asserting themselves people wonder if they somehow crossed a huge line that was not well marked and thus get defensive. It's not necessarily clear to people that you have just changed your personal policies, you know? But beyond that, it's possible that some of those people just... prefer to be friends with "doormats"... that is, you may be being used I guess I'd watch what happens and decide how important the relationship is to you...


ETA... and ftr... I'm in my 20s and HATE being late and would be extremely annoyed/hurt if someone didn't show up when we had made plans. I have a couple friends who are like 40 minutes late every time... and I've sort of just decided to take it for what it is... because it's every time, I guess. But if someone's really late and they're not usually that late, I do expect an explanation/phone call, though I don't usually ask for one. For instance not that long ago I thought I had a playdate w/another mama, but she didn't show. A couple hours later, we left and went home... turns out we had our wires crossed and she didn't realize I was going to be there. I can live with that. It's life, it happens. I just posted something like "oops, somehow we missed you!" on her fb and she said she didn't realize (I had said something semi-cancel-y), and it was no big deal. If she had gotten angry/defensive I would have seriously wondered if I actually wanted to be friends.
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