Kids Questioning One Another About Religion

[mammal_mama]

I actually think this thread fits better here than in Spirituality, because I'm not trying to open up any kind of doctrinal discussion. I really just want to get input about an issue that's lately come up -- the issue of other kids wanting to find out our kids' religious beliefs, for whatever reasons.

We have lately been dealing with a situation at our neighborhood playground where some kids were targeting my 10yo and verbally bullying her. Thanks to some really good advice on another thread here, this situation seems to be getting better, and now some of the kids in the bully-group are actually being (sort of, maybe) nice to my 10yo.

For example, a couple of these girls who look slightly older than my dd just spent some time tonight pushing dd and one of her friends while they were doing a Banana Split on the swings. Then later they started asking dd some questions, and since seemed like they were being nice, dd wanted to be nice, too, and was just matter-of-factly answering them.

They wondered about her dad's and my employment status. They wondered whether dd goes to the store and whether she'd be going any time soon. They wonderd if she knew about skinny jeans (she doesn't like wearing jeans; she prefers soft pants).

Then one of the girls wondered if dd believed in Jesus. Dd kind of jerked her head in surprise, and one of the girls said, "Hey! You just shook your head no!" At this point, dd decided to go talk to me about the situation, and she came to me where I was, way across the field with her sister.

I told her they might think it was normal to question people about religious beliefs, and they might really have been trying to be nice -- but, at the same time, she still doesn't need to answer any questions she doesn't want to answer. She could just say, "That's a really personal question" or even say, "Yeah" but just not discuss it any further if she doesn't want to.

Dd is not exactly sure what her religious beliefs are at this time. She discusses this topic a lot with me, but isn't really comfortable going into it with people who might react badly to her being undecided.

I'm wondering if there are others here who don't exactly fit in with the mainstream religious majority in the U.S., who have maybe encountered some situatins like this. How have you helped your kids navigate their way through these kinds of questions/interrogations?

[Theoretica]

I'd say start with helping her figure out what she DOES believe, so she can work towards having the courage to stand up for that belief...whatever it is.

We have a neighbor girl who actively tries to convert my 9yoDD (we're atheists, she's very comfortable in the atheist mindset). She usually takes it head on and pretty much argues every point with her. When the girl tells her she's going to hell, DD asks her where hell is exactly. The girl points to the ground and says 'under there', so DD grabs a book on the earth and shows that the idea of fire and sulfur comes from volcanic activity and gasses below ground. When told she should 'want' to go to heaven, DD says she doesn't think there is a place, because it doesn't make sense. When told that God answers prayers, she asks what happens when two people pray for opposite things.

Other kids have cornered DD on her beliefs, and if the crowd is large enough she'll go along with agreeing just to get out of the spotlight. If it's a couple kids, she'll talk to them about why there isn't a god...she'll even trot out books on mythology and ancient beliefs, and show them how supernatural beliefs have evolved over eons and years.

I want my kids to be confident in their beliefs, regardless of what they are, but ESPECIALLY when our beliefs don't follow the main stream of societal expectations.

[ImaSophie]

They are still bullying your child those questions are meant to make her feel bad and it is most likely working. I really do think it would be better to find a new place to play at this point.

[eepster]

I remember having many discussions about religion with other kids growing up. It is something that is a pretty standard question at that age.

It first has to do with the need to categorize, which is very prevalent from 5 to 12 yo, kids want to know each others religions so they can know if is something they share in common or something that is different.

It also is part of establishing how they want to separate their beliefs from their parents beliefs. As children enter early adolescence and start learning that parents make up stuff like the tooth faerie and what not, they need to establish their religious/spiritual beliefs as separate from their families. Whether they stay in the family religion or find a new belief, they need to find their own path to that belief. Since this is about finding a path separate from the parental path, they seek to discuss this with age peers (probably why youth groups in churches are so popular.) This tends to start around 8 yo and last till adulthood.

So, talking about religion is just a very normal part of growing up.

Also, if the other girls are actively religious, they may be trying to convert your DD. They may invite her to their church's youth group. Since they brought it up specifically as "Do you believe in Jesus?" and not as a more open ended "What religion are you?" this is a definite possibility.

[mammal_mama]

Thank you for these thoughtful responses!

Theoretica, I do want my dd to feel confident -- but I actually want her to feel confident in this space of learning and becoming, too. I am 46 and began, a few years ago, rethinking many of my views and I'm realizing that "figuring out what we do believe" is an ongoing, continually-evolving process.

I am very firm in my belief in love, and the reality and power of love is something I'm working very hard to impress on my children...but I can't honestly say that I'd do a great job of "defending" this belief, or my belief that it's okay to be continually-evolving in our beliefs, to a bunch of preteens.

Of course it's great that your dd can defend her beliefs. I just believe that not-sureness is also okay ... but I realize that among proseletyzing-types, to be not-sure is to kind of open a door for them to try to make you sure of what they are sure of. In which case it may be better to not even engage in discussions with them, though of course it's my dd's choice whether she wants to engage or not.

ImaSophie -- Judging from the other two posts here, it looks like this is not an issue unique to one particular playground or one particular group of kids. I think that wherever we go, we're likely at some point to encounter something similar.

eepster -- I think you make a good point that this is an age where kids will be trying to categorize one another. Which makes me realize that it's important for us to get connected into some sort of a community. I don't know if this means joining something, or what.

Regarding other kids' attempts to convert my child, I want her to feel free to explore as I am doing, and I realize this may mean she'll come to different conclusions than I have about some things. But, at the same time, I don't want her to feel pressured to go along with someone's conversion attempts just because she's craving connection, community, and answers.

So I want to provide her with the best love and spiritual reality that I can right here at home, so that whatever choices she makes down the line, they will be genuine choices and not something she is unwisely driven to out of some sort of lack on my part.

[fairymom]

I can see good points to all the replies and agree w/them each. We do not follow a mainstream path for our spiritual path either. But where we live there are others around w/simular feelings and my children do not feel alone or the need to fit in.

I remember last holiday season my then 10 yr old didn't want to celebrate our holiday w/us- she complained about not being able to celebrate Christmas, and we found we needed to talk to her about how she was feeling and why all of a sudden the need to convert. When we got to the root of the issue we did find it was because other children in her class where bulling her and making her feel "too different" (something every important to children this is to really fit in and not be too different- having you're own personality is ok but there is still an expected mold to fit when it comes to the mainstream. I find all this a bit off esp for the school she was attending, which had very progressive views- like yoga for the main phy ed class and daily meditation and teaching children how to connect w/the earth on a more personal/spiritual level. But then I realized it may be a progressive school- w/parents that are a bit off the mainstream but kids are still kids and they still look for how to belittle each all around. Something that comes w/middle school, early high school in my OP and exp.)

But I agree w/you to teach your daughter good ways of avoiding the convo if she's not comfortable or ready yet. It's one thing to talk openly to your bffs about this topic and another to a bunch of kids that you have a history w/being bullied by. I honestly would encourage her not to talk about anything personal (even your and your DH's job status) simply because you never know which thing will be used as the next teasing item. Yeah if a deeper relationship/friendship developes then talk freely.

I like your first response- That's a really personal thing and I'm not willing to talk about right now. GL

[Mackenzie]

I have not yet read responses but my 12yo dd deal with this every few months at school it seems. I am soooo proud of her because she calmly, and rationally explains, or attempts to anyhow, that she believes that no one has a monopoly on the truth and that she does not believe that the bible is 100% accurate due to the fallibility of man (not her exact words but close) and she gets a lot of crap for it, and told that she is going to hell. It's a lot for a young girl to deal with. This happened again this week and she came home very upset about it. So we talked it out, and I reinforced that what she believes is reasonable and valid and she felts better. She has told me that knowing that I support her and will talk stuff out helps her (I think that I don't try to force ANY religious believe, or lack of, on to her has helped too) deal with these judgmental conversations with her peers.


Oh, and political discussions are suuuuper fun for her here too, in Kentucky.

[mamazee]

It sounds like if she would have answered that question how they liked, they would have kept asking questions till there was an answer they could use to bully her with, so I think the big issue here isn't religion.

I've told my dd that most people don't talk about religion with people outside of church because it starts arguments. I told her if she does discuss it, to be careful to talk about it in a way that doesn't make other people feel wrong about what they believe. We are not in the norm here (UUs in southern Illinois) but I haven't heard any big issues come up. There was one discussion I overheard about whether Noah's Ark could possibly have happened as written, but it blew over quickly without conflict.

[eepster]

I really don't think this is about fishing for things to tease the OP's DD for. If these girls wanted to tease her, they would have started already. The whole skinny jeans thing seems like much better teasing fodder than what her religious beliefs are.

[Tjej]

Eepster - read the teasing thread. It really does sound like more teasing.

I think you handled it well having your DD tell them that it is private and she doesn't want to talk about that.

I think, though, that even though you and your family have changed your mindset about the bullies, they have not changed their mindset about you all yet. So the children talking to your child are very likely baiting her and trying to make her feel bad. I personally think you should treat them like they are invisible, and your DD should too, but I haven't read all the anti-bullying stuff so I don't KNOW. Either invisible or everything they say is a joke. IDK.

I think that as far as discussing religion with others goes, it might work well for you to come up with a simple line that your DD can use to respond, and then tell her to repeat it if they keep asking. OR it is easy with questions to always just ask the question back and never actually answer yourself.

Tjej

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by Tjej

I think, though, that even though you and your family have changed your mindset about the bullies, they have not changed their mindset about you all yet.

This seems likely. And, although I realize that the targeting has continued simply because we initially "rewarded" it by reacting, and not because of our unique characteristics, I do think the initial targeting may have been prompted by the fact that I'm not their idea of a properly "caring and concerned" mom.

I "let" my 10yo daughter play very actively and get dirty. I even "let" her swing "with her legs open." If my 5yo happens to be wearing a dress, I don't get all up-in-a-wad if she inadvertently shows her panties. I don't yell at, hit, or threaten my girls. I think these bullies were rather disappointed when my two girls got into a small fight one day, and I just said we're leaving, and didn't go ballistic and "whoop" my 10yo for fighting with her little sister.

And, interestingly, my different parenting practices really do stem from my different spiritual view, in particular my view of human nature. I don't see my children as evil, but as inexperienced and sometimes in need of guidance. Therefore punishment isn't part of my "parenting toolkit." I get the impression that they're getting raised in more of a "punishing and shaming" sort of home -- particularly the girls.

I heard one of the 12yo's in this group laughingly talking about how her 10yo brother just "runs all over the place like a little crackhead" so it seems like their "norm" is one where there are quite different standards for boys and girls, which could very well stem from some misogynistic spiritual teachings -- and I realize misogyny is not inherent in any one religion, and many religions have some sects that are misogynistic and many others that are egalitarian, so, again, this isn't an attack on any particular religious doctrine.

I personally think you should treat them like they are invisible, and your DD should too, but I haven't read all the anti-bullying stuff so I don't KNOW.

I think this could very well be the best route. Of course, my dd is the one deciding moment by moment how to deal with any questions they ask her personally. I just want to give her the best advice I can so that she can make the most informed choices.

Either invisible or everything they say is a joke.

This does sound like another possibility. I really do want to be a good sounding-board for dd, possibly even by reading her some of the good advice I am getting from you mamas here. Ultimately, I want her to feel empowered to trust her own judgement on how to handle things.

I guess we all sometimes deal with proseletysers, or with people who just want all kinds of personal information about us that we may or may not feel like giving. Learning how to calmly and matter-of-factly draw the boundaries where we want them to be is a valuable skill, one we can carry with us into every new situation.