Was I OUTRIGHT LIED to?

[peaceful_mama]

I'm extremely upset right now.

I posted before about DS, who is almost 6, in kindergarten, and I think he might have an auditory processing disorder.

He attended preschool on an IEP for "developmental delay." In May, I was called in for a meeting and informed that according to his new test scores, he no longer qualified to be on an IEP.

I asked if there was any way possible to keep it, even with just one goal, ANY goal, and allow his kindergarten teacher to be the one to determine if it would be used or not, after we got through the transitional period.

(I talked to his K teacher in the spring also, and she suggested I ask for this, because if they *did* need to use it, and we got rid of it, he would have to go through *all* of the testing again.)

I was told that this was not possible. The teacher and the head of the preschool program also assured me that they were sure he'd be just fine.

Well, guess what? Everything is NOT fine. And now I find out there's a possibility that I was LIED TO when they told me they couldn't keep an IEP for his transition??

SO just

Do I need to call someone in my school district and have a nice rant at them??

[AllyRae]

Did he get a full MFE? If so, then yes, legally, they can disqualify him if he doesn't meet criteria for a child with a disability, even though he had a previous IEP. However, his previous IEP team should have had a better transition plan in place for transitioning to kindy. Legally, there are a certain number of criteria that must be met before one can qualify as a kindergarten-aged child with a disability. The qualifications for getting an IEP are completely different for preschool and kindy.

However, his MFE should have included a kindy teacher--did it not? If so, you can request the kindy teacher give input as well--I'd imagine you can "re-open" his case if it's only been a few weeks since his IEP was closed, especially if they didn't follow protocol. (I know that my DS's IEP meetings are required to have a teacher in his current grade as well as one that specializes in special needs attend the IEP meetings even though he goes to school out of district and the teachers have never met him. Seems pointless, but apparently it's protocol...)

[peaceful_mama]

I don't know what MFE stands for.

I know he was given a full re-evaluation of the same type that he was given when he initially qualified.

I know that the test scores were all well within the 'non-disabled' range.

And no, his kindergarten teacher was not included. They did not do a "Transition" meeting with his kindy teacher. The reason I was given is that he was not transitioning with an IEP.

The meeting where I was informed of his wonderful progress (which was, indeed, happy news, that was not meant to be sarcastic) was me, his teacher, and the administrator for his preschool program--the person in charge of the teachers and program in his school. At that meeting, I was told that he no longer qualified for an IEP and was being discharged from special ed.
No need for the kindergarten teacher at that meeting, I guess, since they were sending him on without the IEP.

I did give his new teacher a copy of the records and all that. She never asked me anything about them or anything like that, so I guess there were no questions.

I'm just IRATE at the fact that there was NOTHING in place for his transition, and if that's standard policy, then I want to know how to change it, because I feel that it does NOBODY a favor. Especially now, when I am watching my son struggle and looking at the possibility of re-doing this ENTIRE FRIGGIN PROCESS. It's a waste of time on the part of MANY school employees, a waste of my tax dollars, and most importantly, it is a waste of time for my child who SHOULD be in class learning and already have a way to put accomodations in place for him if he needs them! He's been in a special ed program, this is NOT NEW. I'm seriously ready to write to the President of the US if I have to, this seriously has me IRATE.

of course, in talking to his teacher, she has also said that it's early in the year yet but they will of course want to keep an eye on it.....meaning that what we are seeing could be part of the adjustment to the new expectations of kindergarten.

hmmm....well, go back to my other post and you can see why I have a gut instinct that says it probably is more than just the transition...

[AllyRae]

It does sound like you had an MFE, and the scores disqualified him. However, if you don't agree with the results, you are well within your rights to request an outside evaluation. We have our evaluations done by Brandon's psychologist, current school (a private school outside of his district), and his OT. None of them are affiliated with the district. Legally, the district has to pay for that, but we don't ask them to--we just bill to our insurance. Our private providers do evaluations that hit on his deficits and areas of difficulty, as well as his strengths. The results of those qualify him for an IEP. So, you can ask them to have an outside provider do the evaluation too.

It's really tough...I hate how the 3 year MFE usually falls on the transition to kindy, because a lot of kindy kids get left behind in the process because their preschool IEP no longer counts. I really think there needs to be better protocol in place for that transition.

[AllyRae]

Oh, and MFE = multifactored evaluation. It's the evaluation that happens every 3 years (at the longest) that decides whether a child qualifies for an IEP.

[peaceful_mama]

Yes, that is what we had, I've just always heard it referred to as "the 3 year eval" even back when I worked in classrooms.

So...I can request an outside evaluation specifically for auditory processing disorder and the district has to pay for it? How do I do that? And how do I get one of these special advocate people I've heard about?

And who do I get to complain to about the crappy way they transition kids from preschool to kindy? Someone with the power to CHANGE IT. Because this is NOT doing ANYONE any favors.

[SpottedFoxx]

Per my friend (just PM'd this to you as well but for those who want or need to know)...

Can't revoke it, but they can say that he is no longer eligible for special services. It also depends upon if the child is preschool or older. For example, if a child showed a specific learning disability, and has improved to the point where he no longer has it, then they could say he is no longer eligible.

Based upon the classification and testing, I would probably demand independent evaluations.

She should request that the school do the auditory processing evaluation. They would have to pay for it.

She has to fight like hell to keep classification. It will be much harder to get him reclassified if he needs it.

My friend is an attorney who specializes in special needs advocacy.

[KCMichigan]

dont have any suggestions, just support:

My DD just got denied services when we moved states. She went from preschool with a transition IEP written for K this fall to another state. The new state, she had to do preschool again (cut off age different) and after they reevaled her , they found her no longer eligible. Her old state thought they would keep her on IEP until the end of K (even though she made so much growth) to make for a better transition given her history of developmental/social/gross motor delays.

She made so much growth she no longer qualifies for services and this new state just sees how she is now and found her no longer eligible. They said we can reeval in K if need be.

I dont agree, but there is little I can do if she does not meet the criteria.

Her current teacher and I agree, she has made tons of progress- btu still still has some struggles. Just not enough to qualify anymore.

I am mad, because the old state/system were being proactive and giving her a 'transition' year (year 3), the new state automatically evaled her ( they can since we moved states) and found her non-eligible.


Makes me angry since I know that next year in K she will struggle (going from 4 day a week 3 hr preschool to all day everyday 8 hour K).


Find an advocate, talk to them (contact your local ADA or Special Needs support groups), maybe talk about a 504 in the meantime.

[Oh the Irony]

Where I live, the school is totally not qualified to do appropriate testing for auditory processing. They also do not pay for outside evaluations that I am aware of.

Is that a state by state thing or dependent upon certain conditions that the OP would qualify for? I am very interested!

[Rose-Roget]

Auditory Processing Disorder can only be dx'd by a full audiologic CAPD assessment. Schools that I know of are not equipped for those. Also, the school is not legally liable to pay for an outside assessment of CAPD, since their testing revealed that his cognitive, language, etc were withing normal limits. I think outside testing can be paid for by a district if the results of the evaluation are disputed (like you thought his IQ is higher or lower, or they did not use adequate measures for your son's needs), but I'm pretty sure that comes after mediation (not sure about the specifics of how people get to the "outside evaluation" point). However, if you had ds evaluated independently and it was determined that he has CAPD or ADHD or whatever, then the school would need to grant at least a 504 for accommodations. They are not obligated to put him on an IEP, though, if he is performing at grade level.

Also, if your school does RTI (Response to Intervention), this may be helpful in getting extra support for him academically (but not accommodations). RTI is not Special Education, but it can lead to it for some children.

[Linda on the move]

I mean this very kindly, but once children are school aged (k and up) IEPs are for kids with certain dx's. Not all dx's qualify, and depending on what accommodations are needed, a 504 Plan is used instead.

They tested your child and your child passed, therefore, there is no reason for him to have an IEP.

I've NEVER heard of anyone getting the school to pay for an outside assessment. Ever. And when you go in for any medical care, you always have to sign saying that you will pay if your insurance doesn't, so I would tread VERY carefully because you could end up liable for paying the whole amount. I think you should go through your insurance and jump through whatever hoops they have. (My DD's outside assessment only cost us $50 out of pocket because insurance picked up the rest).

I think that your focus should be:

1. Getting a medical dx privately.

2. Advocating for the accommodations that he needs while going through the process of the medical dx. What, exactly, do you want to happen differently in the classroom? What it is that you want that IEP to say? Ask for it now and see if they will do it "unofficially".

If there is something seriously, long term going on with your child, he will have multiple assessments throughout his school career, and every time he levels up there will be an adjustment period when you and school have to try to figure out how to make school work for him.

[chiefmir]

Hi- I'm not a mom of a SN child, but have seen many kiddos start kindergarten. I have often seen kids come into kindergarten, and a month in, when we (I'm a neurpsychologist and work in a K-8 school) start having concerns, we are THEN told by the parents that the kid had EI, and then was disqualfied (for having met all goals) before kindergarten. since they did NOT come in wiht an IEP, there is no transition planning (beyond what some parents do unofficially with us the summer before their child starts school). If we have concerns, we do a completely new evaluation. While this may seem to be a big waste of time (and we DO wish we had information prior to school so the child could have been helped earlier) as a pp mentioned, the criteria for qualifying for EI versus an IEP are completely different. in addition, the observational data that can be gotten from seeing the child in their new setting can not be valued enough.

fairly often, kids who have placed out of EI will place right back into special ed in kindergarten (this is all legit- the criteria for placing out is also different at younger ages).

I will also add that, as mentioned above, an auditory processing disorder is a medical diagnosis which can not be diagnoed except by an audiologist. In our school, the child would most likely come to attention because of speech/language concerns. the speech pathologist would then see if there were any signs of an auditory processing disorder, but the school does not test for it. in the 7 years I've been working, we have- as a school- paid for one such evaluation. It was for a student that WE (as a school team) were extremely worried about. she had already been in special education for several years, gotten a LOT of help, and was not making any progress on her IEP goals despite lots of attempts, changes, etc. the child's family did not have insurance, and the process to help them get insurance and then walk this family though the process of getting the eval was going to take so long that we feared two things 1) that the child would miss another whole year of learning and 2) that since WE (the school) were the ones concerned and had docummented this concern, we could be liable in court later on if we did not push the process through.

[peaceful_mama]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan

dont have any suggestions, just support:

My DD just got denied services when we moved states. She went from preschool with a transition IEP written for K this fall to another state. The new state, she had to do preschool again (cut off age different) and after they reevaled her , they found her no longer eligible. Her old state thought they would keep her on IEP until the end of K (even though she made so much growth) to make for a better transition given her history of developmental/social/gross motor delays.

If I understand the rest of the post correctly...and I'm inferring I guess because you don't come right out and say it, but this was able to happen for her because she "graduated" preschool before her full 3 year re-evaluation was due? (I'm guessing many children would, since many parents don't send to preschool before age 4...possibly even some who come in at 3 might go age 3 and age 4 but then turn 5 and go to kindy before the cutoff, thus having only 2 years.)

Unfortunately for my DS (WRT this anyway) he started at age just past 3 with an October birthday and a September cutoff...meaning if his b-day had been August 8th, he would have been eligible for kindy *last* year and not come up for his 3 year. Unfortunately for us, he had that year when he was 3, the year he turned 4 in Oct. full school year and then the full year he turned 5.

[peaceful_mama]

Originally Posted by chiefmir

I will also add that, as mentioned above, an auditory processing disorder is a medical diagnosis which can not be diagnoed except by an audiologist. In our school, the child would most likely come to attention because of speech/language concerns. the speech pathologist would then see if there were any signs of an auditory processing disorder, but the school does not test for it. in the 7 years I've been working, we have- as a school- paid for one such evaluation. It was for a student that WE (as a school team) were extremely worried about. she had already been in special education for several years, gotten a LOT of help, and was not making any progress on her IEP goals despite lots of attempts, changes, etc. the child's family did not have insurance, and the process to help them get insurance and then walk this family though the process of getting the eval was going to take so long that we feared two things 1) that the child would miss another whole year of learning and 2) that since WE (the school) were the ones concerned and had docummented this concern, we could be liable in court later on if we did not push the process through.

So what does this mean for me? Do I contact his pediatrician to find the person I need to see? (I'm sure insurance will require a referral.) Do I contact the school first and request that their speech pathologist check him for auditory processing concerns?

He has never had speech services, nor has he (to my knowledge) ever been evaluated by a speech pathologist while in EI.

I understand that the criteria are different, I just find it frustrating and unfair to CHILDREN that they do this re-evaluation at the beginning of kindergarten, rather than say halfway through the year or at the end of kindergarten, when the shift in educational setting for the next year will be much less 'dramatic.'

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by peaceful_mama

If I understand the rest of the post correctly...and I'm inferring I guess because you don't come right out and say it, but this was able to happen for her because she "graduated" preschool before her full 3 year re-evaluation was due? (I'm guessing many children would, since many parents don't send to preschool before age 4...possibly even some who come in at 3 might go age 3 and age 4 but then turn 5 and go to kindy before the cutoff, thus having only 2 years.)

Unfortunately for my DS (WRT this anyway) he started at age just past 3 with an October birthday and a September cutoff...meaning if his b-day had been August 8th, he would have been eligible for kindy *last* year and not come up for his 3 year. Unfortunately for us, he had that year when he was 3, the year he turned 4 in Oct. full school year and then the full year he turned 5.

Sorry for the confusion.

DD did EI from birth to age 3. Qualified through the schools for services at 3.5. (but did not start therapies until school started in fall). We were in a state that she did PreK at 3 turning 4---then she would have gone to K at 4 turning 5 (Oct bday, Dec cut off for K). We moved this summer. New state cut off for K is Sept- no exceptions. So we are doing PreK again.

She was/is not due for a 3 yr until 2011 (original state would have been end of Kindy, here it would have been end of PreK). But since we moved, the IEP had to be changed, states can reeval students from other states---they evaled her and found her non-eligible.

Original state was wonderful and had a transition meeting for K, kept her in services even with tons of progress since it is a BIG transition and they were being proactive. New state does not want to be proactive and sees delays that are not great enough for services. They said they will reeval if needed next fall in K.

It is frustrating that the new state wont keep services (on consult even!) and then retract them if she does well next fall, rather they would remove services now and then if she starts to struggle--reinstate them. Not very proactive.

We also suspect she has some processing delays (per testing at 3.5) but she qualified for PT & OT last year and they were watching it.

She has a CP dx. (medical) but very mild (she is ambulatory, but has some serious fatigue and trouble with trikes, etc), but since she is on grade/age level for skills (or only mildly delayed) our new state found her not qualified.

Medical dx dont always mean IEP---but if you do have some medical dx then you can get accommodations with a 504 plan.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by peaceful_mama

hmmm....well, go back to my other post and you can see why I have a gut instinct that says it probably is more than just the transition...

I would get on this ASAP and do NOT listen to the "let's just wait and see'rs."

Make an appointment with your doctor and take your evidence (former IEP, current teacher evaluation, etc.).

IDEA & U.S. Dept of Education

User's Guide to the 2004 IDEA Reauthorization

Families and Advocates Partnership for Education

IDEAPractices

A Guide to the Individualized Education Plan (IEP)


I also came across this thread (discussing ASD and IEPs), it mentions a book named "FROM EMOTIONS TO ADVOCACY" http://www.autism-pdd.net/testdump/test20209.htm .

[chiefmir]

[QUOTE=peaceful_mama;15896983]So what does this mean for me? Do I contact his pediatrician to find the person I need to see? (I'm sure insurance will require a referral.) Do I contact the school first and request that their speech pathologist check him for auditory processing concerns?

Yes, I'd talk to your pediatrician first and get a referral. You can go down that path at the same time as you are figuring out what to do within the school-- if there is a medical diagnosis first (before anything is figured out at the school) or only (if testing at the school does not qualify DS for IEP services) then you can go down the road for a 504-- this is what most kids I've known with an auditory processing disorder have had (unless their defecits are so significant that they are already behind in academic skills as well).

As for the school, you can put a request for a complete evaluation in writing any time. They will have a specific amount of time in which to do the evaluation (where I live it is 60 calendar days-- sometimes it is 45 school days)-- and you can make sure there is a speech/language component.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by peaceful_mama

So what does this mean for me? Do I contact his pediatrician to find the person I need to see? (I'm sure insurance will require a referral.)

yes, also contact your insurance company and find out what they will need. Talk to multiple people, take notes, GET NAMES. I got my DDs paid for but I spent hours on the phone doing leg work.

Do I contact the school first and request that their speech pathologist check him for auditory processing concerns?

all of this stuff takes time, so do both. Request the eval from the school in writing in a signed and dated letter. This isn't phone call or email. This is an official request and needs to be a real letter. If you suspect you will have problems with the school, send it so they have to sign when they receive it.

My advice is to make the request very specific with a short bulleted list of the problems he is having in class. Keep it polite.

[peaceful_mama]

The teacher said "it's early in the year, but I'll talk to the principal" Since then, nothing new. I got a note yesterday saying conferences are the first week in Nov.

My day in his classroom is Tues. afternoon which is excellent for this because I get to see his art class and a regular classroom activity that both require the students to follow mostly verbal directions.

I'm not noticing the same problems in art class that I notice on the regular classroom activities...so two things come to mind. One is to ask the teacher if it is happening--in her view--because there is another day of art class that I don't see, and I'm often helping other students and might not be noticing everything with DS.

The second would be to look at what the art teacher is doing differently to get ideas that could transfer to the regular classroom activities.


I can also see if the ability seems to be improving as he has more experience working in the large-group follow-the-teacher setting. This is what I think the teacher was getting at, that he hasn't really been required to do this before.

BUT...considering that he has been in school since mid-August, and conferences are first week of November, that is 2 1/2 full months of school with plenty of these type of projects. If DS is still struggling by what the teacher can see at that point, I think it is really time to look at other possible reasons he's struggling than "lack of exposure"

I also have opportunity to see him at work, so of course, if my opinion differs a bit from his teacher's, I will be writing that letter or calling my ped.

Honestly, i don't know that the school is equipped to dx this, like I said, I can see totally why his one-on-one testing would look fine but his classroom performance is not.

I'm not trying to be label-happy and get my kid an unnecessary IEP, but if this is something other than "needing adjustment time", I want to find out what it is, and if there's things we can do to help, I want them done.

[Polliwog]

Schools don't diagnose children. The evaluations that the school professionals do don't lead to a diagnosis of anything. That's why you really need to have private evaluations along with the school stuff.