do soy isoflavones block estrogen or increase it?

[contactmaya]

And the same goes for clomid.

I dont understand how this really works. Ive read that soy isoflavones block estrogen receptors in the brain, making it think there is low estrogen, thereby increasing fsh and lh, thereby increasing follicle production, thereby increasing estrogen(because follicles create estrogen)
Clomid does the same.

This doesnt work apparently in women who already have high fsh (often older women, and especially post menopausal women who have permanent high fsh), because their fsh is already high, so boosting it up doesnt help, since ovarian reserve is low in the first place.
(i still dont get how this process causes normally ovulating women to ovulate later tho, which is often does)

I also dont understand why clomid or soy could thin endometrium lining and obliterate ewcm ...ok in the first place the estrogen is blocked...but then if there are more follicles, you would expect more estrogen and therefore a thicker endometrium and more ewcm... so why does it do the opposite?

And also, i dont understand how does this same thing-soy isoflavones, is a frequent ingredient in post menopausal products (like estroven) designed to increase estrogen in post menopausal women?
If their fsh is already high, then blocking the estrogen receptors aint gonna do a thing. But.... apparently it does. I thought the ovaries of post menopausal women didnt function anymore because there were no more eggs. So their high fsh isnt going to increase estrogen.

So...i dont get it. And i want to get it. It annoys me that this is all so contradictory.

I mean, does taking soy block, or increase your estrogen?

Anyone know?

[contactmaya]

Yep...ill keep adding bits of information in case someone else might find it useful....

So far, still clear as mud. But here is one small clue...

<<Depending on the type of estrogen receptor on the cells, isoflavones may reduce or activate the activity of estrogen. >>
(http://www.isoflavones.info)

Ok, thats something.

[momsmyjob]

I wish I knew. I'm trying to understand the same thing. I've done an FSH test on CD 3 and it was normal. This was the FR at home test so I dunno.

[contactmaya]

Not sure about the test- are you referring to the clomid challenge test?


Anyway,...i think i have it....Something like this....
.....there are different types of estrogen receptors, and these are distributed differently in different parts of the body. Therefore, the same substance could act as both an estrogen antagonist or estrogen agonist , ie increase or block estrogen, depending on the body part.

As far as affecting the reproductive cycle, I am guessing, that soy, which acts as an antagonist, ie blocks certain receptors probably blocks endometrium and cervical receptors at the site. It may increase estrogen overall because of the negative feedback loop caused by blocking estrogen receptors at the pituitary gland, but too bad, receptors at the cervix and endometrium are blocked. (with only some remaining open, and this probaby depends on the woman)

Also, artificial estrogen/or estrogen imitators only block certain receptors (there’s a few different kinds of them), and not others, so you do get some natural estrogen in your system. (thus-selective estrogen receptor modulator -serm) Maybe some women have more of one than another, so some women get a higher or lower dose of estrogen.

Natural estrogen, mainly estradriol, can go through any receptor.

…I think….

As far as women ovulating normally…if their cycle is balanced, and they ovulate on say day 14, then blocking the estrogen for 5 days (3-7 say) will push the O date forward 5days, because that’s how long it takes for the feedback loop to put estrogen back in the system, and replace the initial blocked estrogen on days 3-7. (I guess) (and not that a woman who ovulates a little erlier or later is out of balance)

In short, nobody really knows for sure until you try it.

I could have that all wrong.
As far as cancers and post menopausal women are concerned, it’s the same thing, different body part, different estrogen receptor scenario. Some will increase cancer tendencies and the same thing could decrease it elsewhere…..

Please correct me if im wrong, anyone who actually knows what thay are talking about.

Most of this info came from wikipedia-SERM, estrgoen receptors, clomid, phytoestrogens, phytoserm