Any traditional Christians here celebrating Michealmas?

[daisymommy]

I come from a Baptist Christian background. I have only heard about Michealmas last year when I started digging into Waldorf for my kids.

We aren't focusing on it this year mainly because I am clueless as to how to teach about it, what to do with it. What do you all do?

In the churches I attended growing up the only story we heard was brief, that Satan who was an angel at the time desired to be more powerful than God, there was a great battle in Heaven, God and the angels won, and threw Satan out of heaven. But we never talked about St. Micheal (or any other saints at all really), or dwelled upon this story. There was certainly no thinking that it was tied to a certain day or season of the year.

It is my understanding that in Waldorf, Satan is represented by the dragon, and the holiday symbolizes good versus evil, and good winning out.

So, how do you carry this special day out in your home? Is it important to tell the traditional religious story? Or do any of you only teach and focus on the message of the story--doing good in life, doing away with bad habits or behaviors, or anything else? I just feel a little uncomfortable with so much focus on Satan (even if he is defeated), and celebrating something that never had any focus in my life growing up. But at the same time, I'm trying to incorporate more festival days into my children's life. Perhaps I just need to skip this one...I don't know.

[JudiAU]

daisymommy-- We are exploring Waldorf now and I have to say I find the holidays utterly baffling. At first I thought they were all myth orientated and then I realized most were Christian but I had never heard of most of them. I was raised protestant, almost Quaker, and holidays were greatly minimized as a result of what was viewed as the pagan/Catholic orientation of most of them. I have no idea who most Christian "saints" are or what they did or why they are relevant to life/ cultural applications of their life. If it wasn't in the Bible, we didn't learn about it.

I found reading "All Year Round" to be very helpful because it seems to explain the Waldorf approach to the Christian holidays, most of which seem to stem for the Catholic/Anglican/Episcopalian Christian tradition (but that may be because the author is British). It also gives ideas for simple play/food/games around each holiday.

[At least, this is what I've gathered in my recent research. Please correct me if I have it wrong.]

I think one of the reasons why I find Waldorf so appealing is that there is this rich culture of gentle celebration and I didn't experience it as a child. My son loves celebration so we are trying to incorporate more traditions in our life. I love the idea of knights and dragons and good and evil but it just seems forced to celebrate something to which I have no connection. I don't have that Christian background and I am not religious now and don't want to be. I really need to sort out my feelings still. I would be curious how non-Christian or non-religious people approach the spirit of Waldorf celebration. Perhaps I just need to tease out what why I find Waldorf appealing and provocative.

[daisymommy]

So much of what you feel and said resonates with me! I'll be interested to learn more about all of this along with you.

[frogautumn]

We are not a religious family (I fall under a "spiritual but not religious" category and my husband is agnostic though we were both raised in very Catholic homes). What I really like about the way Waldorf celebrates these holidays is how they connect what's going on in nature with what's going on in the human being.

Michaelmas marks the beginning of autumn (the beginning of the darker half of the year), internally, we focus on finding the inner strength to battle our own dragons or darkness.

For us, the St. Michael story is a parable, the vehicle for teaching the lesson.

To celebrate, DS's nursery made dragon-bread dough on Tuesday (while telling the story that appears in All Year Round) and yesterday, they ate their dragons. At home, we read "The Knight and the Dragon," and talked about how wonderful it was that the knight and the dragon could become friends.

[daisymommy]

I really like the idea of using the story as a parable.

DS#1 who is 8 is very introspective and wise. I know he would ask why we are having a special day talking about dragons. And I wouldn't know how to respond.

I wish I could listen to an experienced Waldorf mom explain the parable to their children! I just can't seem to "hear the words" in my head if that makes sense.

How do you say in children's terms: "Micheal defeating the dragon is symbolic of ________. "(insert God throwing satan out of heaven, or us overcoming our own shortcomings--depending upon your religious philosophy).

[MariposaMami]

This is what my home school co-op did last year for the feast of St. Michael
http://sfoama.blogspot.com/2009/10/f...t-michael.html

[dogretro]

I started to type an answer, but my baby just woke up. I will finish it and post it sometime on Saturday, hopefully

[Theoretica]

I think annettemarie does, she's an MDC moderator, you might want to ask her about it?

[dogretro]

Okay, so. I was raised Catholic (including Catholic school up to grade 8) & we were taught that God originally created all the angels. At some point, Lucifer (who I believe was an archangel) became jealous of the Lord's power & wanted to take over the throne from God. Lucifer rallied some of his angel friends to fight w/ him & then he made a move for the throne. The angels who supported God fought back, & this group was lead by the Archangel Michael. Lucifer's group was defeated &, as punishment, God cast them out of Heaven & down into Hell. Lucifer became Satan, the leader of Hell. This is the story of how & why Hell was created. Now, this entire story is not represented in the Bible, which my husband told me is b/c it is actually in the Apocrypha, which are extra texts that the Catholic Church believes are cannon & protestants. IDK if that is true, I didn't make much of an effort to look it up. On the Roman Catholic calendar, September 29th is the feast day of St. Michael. Satan is referred to as the dragon in Revelation & it is said in that book that Michael cast the dragon out of Heaven.

Since Michaelmas is a feast day recognized by two different groups (Waldorf & Catholics) and I do believe that Satan and Michael are actual beings, I see nothing wrong w/, as a Christian, celebrating Michaelmas and telling the true story. "True" story. One can argue that the details are not true since they are not specifically laid out in the Bible, but whatever. I do plan to teach my kids that angels & demons are real beings. I don't need to go into deep detail about evil and whatnot, just explain that Lucifer got jealous and started a big fight. I think it will be kind of odd to introduce the idea of punishments for misdeeds since we don't punish our kids. Like, how will they feel about the notion of revenge? Anyone else wonder about this?

We did not get to celebrate Michaelmas on its actual date this year b/c we lost power for a few days (bad storm that knocked a tree down). This threw our rhythm totally out of whack for over a week, part of which was over MM. I plan on celebrating it this week. I am going to tell the story of the battle in Heaven using some of dd1's toys, like they tell story at school. Then I am going to help her tie two sticks together to make a sword. DD1 will already wear a silky like a cape, so I will tie that on & show her how to use her sword to fight her big stuffed dragon. Nicole, I liked your idea of making falling star balls, so we are going to make some, too. That is going to be it for our celebration

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by dogretro

We did not get to celebrate Michaelmas on its actual date this year b/c we lost power for a few days (bad storm that knocked a tree down). This threw our rhythm totally out of whack for over a week, part of which was over MM. I plan on celebrating it this week. I am going to tell the story of the battle in Heaven using some of dd1's toys, like they tell story at school. Then I am going to help her tie two sticks together to make a sword. DD1 will already wear a silky like a cape, so I will tie that on & show her how to use her sword to fight her big stuffed dragon. Nicole, I liked your idea of making falling star balls, so we are going to make some, too. That is going to be it for our celebration

Old Michaelmas Day was celebrated on October 11, before the calendar changed. So you are okay with moving your celebrations! Traditionally, blackberries weren't picked after this date, because according to legend, Satan fell into a blackberry bush when he was banished from Heaven.

[dogretro]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree

Old Michaelmas Day was celebrated on October 11, before the calendar changed. So you are okay with moving your celebrations! Traditionally, blackberries weren't picked after this date, because according to legend, Satan fell into a blackberry bush when he was banished from Heaven.

I did recently hear about the blackberry bush thing. We were taught that he was cast straight into Hell. Interesting all the different variations on the story!

Thanks for the date info! I think we will celebrate on Friday.

[daisymommy]

Dogreto, thank-you so much for your input! It made a lot of sense.

And somehow, in all my reading, I did not know Micheal and his angels were mentioned in Revelation. I just went and looked it up (Rev. 12: 7-9) for anyone who is wondering.

But of course there is the tricky-sticky point to make that Revelation is what is to happen at the end of the world (hasn't happened yet)...not what has already happened. I guess you could still tell the story in the future tense, "one day Micheal will defeat the dragon".

I never realized how much thought would have to go into this!