Bedtime can't take an hour anymore

[AFWife]

Okay. I'll start by saying that we don't have a bedtime routine. HOWEVER, that's due to the typical "bedtime stuff" not being calming for DS. He's 17.5mo. A bath is SO EXCITING and it revs him up so giving him a bath actually ruins chances of him going down easy. He doesn't care about books so sitting down to read a story does nothing...in fact, if he's already in a playful mood it makes it worse because it's like introducing a toy.

Right now we do a bottle of milk while we all lay down in bed...and that's followed by almost an hour of him laying there and "talking" (no real words, just babbles), hitting, pinching, standing up, yelling, etc...

We try to start bedtime around 8:30pm no matter how tired he seems (or doesn't for that matter). A good night is 45mins. A bad night is over an hour.

We also have an issue on Tues and Thurs nights...normally, DH is already home and we can start doing calming things around 8pm and then head to the bedroom 30mins later. However, Tues/Thurs DH has class and doesn't even get home until after 8pm. So, even if DS is starting to calm down with me he gets excited and wants to play all over again because DH is home. (There was one night I had him ALMOST ASLEEP and then DH got home and it was all ruined) It's not DH's fault. DS doesn't get to see him that often (his hours got extended recently so he gets home 2 hours later than before) so it's an exciting thing for him to get home.

[happysmileylady]

We try to start bedtime around 8:30pm no matter how tired he seems (or doesn't for that matter). A good night is 45mins. A bad night is over an hour

Is there a particular reason he needs to be going to bed around that time even if he's not tired? It seems like trying to get a toddler to bed when he's not even tired would just be a set up for bed time problems

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by happysmileylady

Is there a particular reason he needs to be going to bed around that time even if he's not tired?

If we wait until he's tired there are nights he won't go down until 10pm...and DH and I need to go to bed before then some nights.

Plus, especially on nights when DH has class we want to spend *some* time together...and if we wait for DS to go to sleep we don't get to do that...it happened last night (and it was a Wed) He leaves for work at 6:30am and I'm 6mo pregnant so we both value what little sleep we get.

[journeymom]

How much/when is your ds sleeping during the day time? Is the light on or off at his bed time?

I know it seems counter intuitive, but try making bedtime earlier.

Right now we do a bottle of milk while we all lay down in bed...and that's followed by almost an hour of him laying there and "talking" (no real words, just babbles), hitting, pinching, standing up, yelling, etc...

Then this doesn't work. You have become the toy. Try something different. Some toddlers sleep well with lots of cuddles and touch. Some really need space and quiet (whether they realize it or not).

You might try having a story (really short) out in the living room instead of the bedroom. Or something to signal the end of the day. Then pajamas, teeth brushed and off to bed. Bed is ONLY for sleeping, not for playing. I'd say that last one, every night, as part of the bedtime ritual: the bed is for sleeping, not for playing.

And then then try sitting on a chair next to the bed.

Does he have a stuffed animal he can 'put to bed'? He can lay it in safe corner and cover it with a little blanket. "Good night bear!"

It's really, really tough. We never did get a handle on our eldest's bedtime. It wasn't until she was old enough to listen to a story (3 to 4 y.o.?) that she could accept lying down without us. And even then she'd be up like a jack-in-the-box for a couple of hours. But the turning point was when we started narrating the 'rules' as went through the bedtime routine.

OK, let's go sit on the sofa and have a story! All done, let's go brush your teeth. Now let's get clean pjs. Where's Bear's blanket? Ok, you tuck him into his bed. Now it's your turn, sweetie. May I have a hug? May I have a kiss? Remember, the bed is for sleeping, not for playing.

BTW, bathing was always stimulating for my little ones, too.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by journeymom

How much/when is your ds sleeping during the day time? Is the light on or off at his bed time?

I know it seems counter intuitive, but try making bedtime earlier.

Then this doesn't work. You have become the toy. Try something different. Some toddlers sleep well with lots of cuddles and touch. Some really need space and quiet (whether they realize it or not).

He naps anywhere from 1-2 hours. He only takes one nap and that can start anywhere from 1pm-3pm. He isn't a napper either! We basically have to let him pass out or it becomes a violent battle.

Earlier will work on everyday but Tues and Thurs...I can't try to put him down before DH comes home (he asks for Daddy and refuses to even try).

We all cosleep...he's a cuddler...so trying to just put him down and have him sleep doesn't work either.

[MamieCole]

Sounds like you have a choice to make: continue to try to put him down before he is ready and have it take an hour, or start waiting until 10pm to put him down and sacrifice some couple time.

This is just my opinion, but I'd much rather let him stay up til he is ready to sleep (assuming he isn't a cranky, tired, screaming puddle of sleepiness) and have two enjoyable hours and a stress-free family bedtime.

As it is now, you aren't really getting much *alone* time with your DH anyway. If it is taking you an hour or more to get your LO to sleep and you and DH go to bed at or before 10, you are getting 30mins-an hour max. Maybe try to think about another way to get that alone time with DH...weekends/mornings/evenings where someone can watch your LO for a bit so you can have alone time.

[LadyCatherine185]

It sounds like his nap is much too late for you to be putting him to bed at 8:30. What time does he wake up in the morning? I would start there. You may have to wake up him earlier in order for him to be tired earlier for a nap and then tired earlier for bedtime. It may take a week or two to "set in" as well.

Also, with my DS, if we just lay in bed with him and let him roll around and go to sleep on his own it will take an hour +. DH usually has to hold him while sitting on the bed, or I hold and rock him. Also, no "exciting" play after 8 pm (he usually goes to bed at 9). In order for Liam to go to bed at 9, he is up at 6 AM (not by my choice, he has always been an early riser!), nap from 12-1:30ish and then bed at 9. Usually takes about 15-30 minutes for him to fall asleep.

[Super~Single~Mama]

1pm is too late for a nap. When my ds isn't asleep by 2pm, he doesn't get a nap, and if he's still sleeping at 2, he gets woken up. I may need to move that earlier, but for now its working ok.

Also, we start the day at 7am every.single.day. even weekends b/c then he's up early enough that he needs an earlier nap. And for some reason, afternoons are less tiring than mornings.

My son is not a bedtime kid - I swear, if fighting sleep were a sport my kid would be the world champion! Just work on moving his "schedule" or routine earlier entirely - thats what has REALLY helped us. And, my goal is now to start bedtimes at 7pm (shower with mommy, 2-3 stories, lights out and lay down for night night). The lights don't go on again until morning. Thats our rule (unless theres a poopy dipe in the middle of bedtime and I need to see to change it - but then I just open the door a crack and can see that way).

[AFWife]

We wake up about 8am. Honestly, I've been so tired lately that 8am is too early for ME to feel like wanting to get up. Fatigue has been bad and present this entire pregnancy. I have insomnia ANYWAY so add in having to change positions 6546874351 times a night plus getting up to pee 5 or 6 times and I.just.don't.sleep.

The thing is, if we get up earlier then I have to go to bed earlier too! I don't nap during the day (uh, who would do chores?) and I just don't nap well unless I'm sick with exhaustion. So, if we were to get up with DH (6am) I'm ready for bed around 8pm (The day we got up with DH? DS didn't sleep until after 9pm anyway) DS has woken up at 7:30am a few times and I'm exhausted and ready for bed around 9pm.


I feel like I'm being difficult and I don't mean to be...things are just complicated, sucky, and hormonal around here lately.

[hollytheteacher]

Originally Posted by AFWife

We wake up about 8am. Honestly, I've been so tired lately that 8am is too early for ME to feel like wanting to get up. Fatigue has been bad and present this entire pregnancy. I have insomnia ANYWAY so add in having to change positions 6546874351 times a night plus getting up to pee 5 or 6 times and I.just.don't.sleep.

The thing is, if we get up earlier then I have to go to bed earlier too! I don't nap during the day (uh, who would do chores?) and I just don't nap well unless I'm sick with exhaustion. So, if we were to get up with DH (6am) I'm ready for bed around 8pm (The day we got up with DH? DS didn't sleep until after 9pm anyway) DS has woken up at 7:30am a few times and I'm exhausted and ready for bed around 9pm.


I feel like I'm being difficult and I don't mean to be...things are just complicated, sucky, and hormonal around here lately.

I just want to comiserate because I feel exaclty the same as you. I want ds to go to bed at a reasonable hour and i want time with my dh and i'm tired/preggo too. It's really hard. I dont' know what the heck the right answer is. If i lay with my ds he also does the talk, kick, giggle, etc. stuff for OVER an hour no matter if we put him to bed at 8 or 9 or 10. So we tried doing the "okay goodnight, mommy will check on you in a few minutes" stuff but he just runs out of the bed giggling or he starts crying and I have to start all over again. I want a magic answer!! lol

[LadyCatherine185]

Originally Posted by AFWife

We wake up about 8am. Honestly, I've been so tired lately that 8am is too early for ME to feel like wanting to get up. Fatigue has been bad and present this entire pregnancy. I have insomnia ANYWAY so add in having to change positions 6546874351 times a night plus getting up to pee 5 or 6 times and I.just.don't.sleep.

The thing is, if we get up earlier then I have to go to bed earlier too! I don't nap during the day (uh, who would do chores?) and I just don't nap well unless I'm sick with exhaustion. So, if we were to get up with DH (6am) I'm ready for bed around 8pm (The day we got up with DH? DS didn't sleep until after 9pm anyway) DS has woken up at 7:30am a few times and I'm exhausted and ready for bed around 9pm.


I feel like I'm being difficult and I don't mean to be...things are just complicated, sucky, and hormonal around here lately.

I can def commiserate with the tired/preggo thing too.. I especially am starting to freak out since baby is coming in ~5 weeks and I already feel like I don't get any alone time with DH and that waking up at 6 every morning is too early (and DS STTN now..). I think you answered your question though.. If he is sleeping in until 8 AM he just isn't ready for bed until 10.. You can't make him go to sleep earlier without taking sleeptime away somewhere else.

A few suggestions--

*cut out his nap, put him to bed around 7/8
*have a "family snuggle" time with the light on with all 3 of you, so you can at least lay down in the evenings and spend time with your hubby (Liam loooves to play in our bed in the evenings, don't know if it will work for you or not)
*even if you can't sleep, lay down when he naps. chores can wait, or do them while he is awake and try to include him.. I have started making myself do this because by 6 PM i am usually wiped, and now I feel MUCH better for longer throughout the day having that "rest" time
*when trying to put him to bed at night (at a time that he is actually tired) if he tries to get up and play/talk etc just gently lay him back down and tell him "shhh, be quiet, go to sleep" we have to do this with Liam or else he will just play and play and work himself up and take forever to go to sleep

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by AFWife

We wake up about 8am. Honestly, I've been so tired lately that 8am is too early for ME to feel like wanting to get up. Fatigue has been bad and present this entire pregnancy. I have insomnia ANYWAY so add in having to change positions 6546874351 times a night plus getting up to pee 5 or 6 times and I.just.don't.sleep.

The thing is, if we get up earlier then I have to go to bed earlier too! I don't nap during the day (uh, who would do chores?) and I just don't nap well unless I'm sick with exhaustion. So, if we were to get up with DH (6am) I'm ready for bed around 8pm (The day we got up with DH? DS didn't sleep until after 9pm anyway) DS has woken up at 7:30am a few times and I'm exhausted and ready for bed around 9pm.

It won't happen in one day. Try for 4-5days, and thats when you will know if its going to make a difference. It takes my ds several days to get back on track after a weekend with his dad - so one day is NOT indicative of whether it will work or not. And yeah, I go to bed early, but we have to get up by 6:30 or 7am b/c I'm in school every day and ds has to go to daycare.

But, if you want to change his bedtime, which you do, you have to change his wake up time. AND - the other thing I want to mention, is that when ds goes to bed earlier, it takes less time, and I'm so much more patient at bedtime when its from 7-8 as opposed to 9-10, or even 8-9. It's worth trying for a week, you're exhausted anyway, so trying to make changes may help. It might not, but you don't have much to lose (sleep wise anyway).

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185

*cut out his nap, put him to bed around 7/8
*have a "family snuggle" time with the light on with all 3 of you, so you can at least lay down in the evenings and spend time with your hubby (Liam loooves to play in our bed in the evenings, don't know if it will work for you or not)
*even if you can't sleep, lay down when he naps. chores can wait, or do them while he is awake and try to include him.. I have started making myself do this because by 6 PM i am usually wiped, and now I feel MUCH better for longer throughout the day having that "rest" time
*when trying to put him to bed at night (at a time that he is actually tired) if he tries to get up and play/talk etc just gently lay him back down and tell him "shhh, be quiet, go to sleep" we have to do this with Liam or else he will just play and play and work himself up and take forever to go to sleep

Here come the excuses

1) I cannot deal with this kid when he hasn't had a nap. Like right now, he's been tired for the past two hours but REFUSES to sit still. He's tired to the point of hysterical crying over tiny things (like the toy won't go around the chair right or he's too big to crawl underneath a chair) If DH is here it's easier...but on days (like today) when he won't be home until 8pm...I take naps whenever DS decides to take them.
Add in that when he's ready for a nap you can't stop him. He will pass out sitting up.

2) Family snuggle time was attempted the other night (last night maybe?) and it did nothing different. He still did his thing for almost an hour and then would wake up when either of us moved to get out of bed.

3) Normally including him in chores works...but lately he hasn't wanted to cooperate. He's actually made things HARDER. I tried just "letting it go" but at the end of the day I'm too tired to do chores. And if DH is feeling, uh, frisky, that eats up my before bed chore time! DH gets home too late (or we have to run and do errands) to really help (that's an entirely different issue)

4) I don't know that he would just "fall asleep" even if we waited until 9-10pm. I really don't...If he didn't then that would mean being awake until 11pm or later and that just is NOT okay. He can be stumbling tired and when that light goes out it becomes party time...I don't get it!!!

[LadyCatherine185]

with the "family snuggle" time I wasn't meaning that as a way to get him to sleep, but just a way that you can connect with your DH and rest some yourself until it is bedtime.

are there any shows he will watch on TV while you do chores? i know that isn't popular on here, but sometimes tv is necessary for family sanity. I usually put on Yo Gabba Gabba for DS while I do dishes or cook dinner.. other chores he doesn't mind me doing, but for some reason dishes and dinner are NOT ok with him.. If you don't want to do TV, is there any other activity you can get him interested in long enough for you to get some things done? Really in the last 6 months or so Liam has gotten REALLY good at playing independantly, and I can get a lot more done.. so things may turn around on their own for you there soon.

Liam has never just "gone to sleep" no matter how tired he is either. It always takes about 15-30 minutes of cuddling with Daddy, and that is after cutting the lights down in the house an hour before bedtime, reading books on the couch, and teeth brushing/pj's etc. It just takes him a long time to wind down. but we've gotten his time down (9 pm) and bedtime routine down in the last 8 months or so and it has really helped. But there are some nights (like last night) where it still takes 45 minutes for him to go to sleep. His routine is-- lights down at 8, sit on the couch with mommy and daddy, read books, draw etc (just quiet play to get him wound down some).. I remind him around 8:30 it is almost time for bed.. then we brush teeth, change diaper, put on pj's and Mommy says "goodnight" and Daddy takes him into his bed (he sleeps in his own bed now) and holds him on the bed until he is asleep. His room is pitch black, and there is a fan for white noise.

[justKate]

Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185

Liam has never just "gone to sleep" no matter how tired he is either. It always takes about 15-30 minutes of cuddling with Daddy, and that is after cutting the lights down in the house an hour before bedtime, reading books on the couch, and teeth brushing/pj's etc. It just takes him a long time to wind down. but we've gotten his time down (9 pm) and bedtime routine down in the last 8 months or so and it has really helped. But there are some nights (like last night) where it still takes 45 minutes for him to go to sleep. His routine is-- lights down at 8, sit on the couch with mommy and daddy, read books, draw etc (just quiet play to get him wound down some).. I remind him around 8:30 it is almost time for bed.. then we brush teeth, change diaper, put on pj's and Mommy says "goodnight" and Daddy takes him into his bed (he sleeps in his own bed now) and holds him on the bed until he is asleep. His room is pitch black, and there is a fan for white noise.

AFWife, I am LadyCatherine's biggest fan. She knows whats up.

Some kids, like mine (ours?), cannot lay down. Can't do it. So no amount of cuddling them is going to help, because they will be kicking you, picking your nose, doing anything possible to avoid sleep. Some need pressure on their bodies to relax. For the first 14 mos. of DD's life, we seriously held her down until she fell asleep. Like a bear hug from a spooning position, if that makes sense? She screamed, but she screamed/fought worse if we didn't do it. Now I lay down with her and cuddle for a few minutes, then turn off the light and tell her to lay down. She does. Then gets UP, down UP, over and around, down. UP. Over and over. So now I ask, "do you want me to hold you like a little baby?" and she either lays (lies?) down, or I hold her. Her choice.

The other thing that works sometimes is to ignore her. Like when she's up and down, crawling all over the bed, I say nigh-night and roll away from her and only say "shhh...nigh night" if she seems really distressed. After a while she'll cuddle up to my back and go to sleep.

It still takes btw. 1/2 hr. and 2 hrs. each night. Its awful. I keep looking at these threads to see if someone has some new idea, but so far, holding the LO down and ignoring are the only tools that are even kind of working for us.



Good luck.

[AFWife]

justKate: We've tried the holding him down thing (I was hesitant to mention that...thank you!) but he gets much more violent when he's being restrained. We've both walked away with fat lips and scratched faces before...and I can't handle being kicked in the stomach right now. We've been doing the "roll away and ignore" but we still end up just waiting him out until he gets tired and sleeps...

[justKate]

Originally Posted by AFWife

justKate: We've tried the holding him down thing (I was hesitant to mention that...thank you!) but he gets much more violent when he's being restrained. We've both walked away with fat lips and scratched faces before...and I can't handle being kicked in the stomach right now. We've been doing the "roll away and ignore" but we still end up just waiting him out until he gets tired and sleeps...

Ugh. It sucks! I'm following in case someone has more suggestions...

[bella99]

I honestly don't have too much advice, because my daughter has been remarkably easy sleep-wise.

But I don't think 1 pm is too late for a nap. My daughter will be two in just over a month and all my friends' kids her age and slightly younger nap anywhere from 12-3. My daughter generally sleeps from 12:30-2:30 or 1-3.

She wakes up for the day between 7:30 and 8, and goes down for bed at 8. No matter how hyped up she is before bed, she goes down at 8-ish without a fuss.

But I do think having a routine is important, even if it isn't the things you associate with being calming. All it needs to be is a sequence of things that you do leading up to bedtime so that he associates those things with getting ready for bed IMO. For instance, a half hour before bed, we go up and play in her room (she sleeps in there), then she picks out her own pajamas, brush her teeth, and then clean up her toys together. Once that is done, she turns on her fan, and turns off the light (she HAS to be the one who does it), and then she and I sit in a chair in the dark (there are nightlights) talking for 10-15 minutes and then she lays down and I leave. It's important for her that she has the right set of loveys (she has a blanket and a toy monkey that are her favorites).

[lotus.blossom]

have you tried rocking him? thats what we did with ds1 after i nightweaned him. About 10 minutes in the rocker and he was out like a light! And he was every bit as difficult of a sleeper as yours sounds.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by lotus.blossom

have you tried rocking him? thats what we did with ds1 after i nightweaned him. About 10 minutes in the rocker and he was out like a light! And he was every bit as difficult of a sleeper as yours sounds.

That would involve sitting still! Sitting still is unacceptable!!