Two things from my pediatrician that I hadn't heard before...true?

[KLM99]

Yesterday's pediatrician visit, we were met with some resistance on our not having vaccinated our 1yo. We recently gave our 3yo her first vaccine, and I think I feel good about that decision. It's a continuous journey this "deciding to vaccinate or not" thing for us - sometimes I am 100% sure I was right not to, sometimes I am 75% sure I should go ahead and get them done, but I keep reading and thinking and we'll see where we go...

Anyway, our pediatrician told us two things today that I hadn't heard before. Has anyone heard these or read anything about them?

1. Giving the combination vaccines is better because they have less of the additives and adjuvants than would giving each vaccine separately.

2. In a younger child, you need to give the vaccine doses close together or else whatever immunity that was given for the first dose doesn't "stick." So for example, if you give the Hib, you should give the second dose no more than 6 weeks after otherwise the first dose will be ineffective.

Thoughts?

[MountainMamaGC]

The 6 week thing doesnt make sense because, the infant schedule is spaced 2 months apart and not 6 weeks apart.

[GoBecGo]

I vax and probably don't know as much as others so pinch of salt but:

1. i imagine this is true - the volume of the 5 in 1 is smaller than the combined volume of the single-type vaccines (assuming you can get them, which often you can't, i think some of them aren't even made!). So by VOLUME there will be less, but that isn't to say it's better, all vaccines were not created equal and some will have different additives and adjuvants in the single-type and potentially they could be more/less harmful, kwim? Like it could be a smaller amount but of a more toxic substance in the combined.

2. That makes no sense to me. I was told they give the boosters (which are identical to the initial vax, they call it a "booster" because the kid already had it once) IN CASE the first vaccine didn't stick. Depending on the vax the immunity rates vary, i know with the 5-in-1 most kids will have immunity for SOME of the 5 after the first dose but to get the most likely outcome to be decent coverage for all 5 they have to give 3 doses. So if you only get one you might have an increased risk of SOME of the included immunities not forming, those that DID form won't unform because you don't boost.

My 2c, and i could be wrong, there will be more knowledgeable folks than me along in a second no doubt

[EdnaMarie]

The first part is true.

The second part depends on the vaccine. Certainly some vaccines are spaced more than six weeks apart. Others require a minimum of time between them.

[KLM99]

Originally Posted by Lydiah

The 6 week thing doesnt make sense because, the infant schedule is spaced 2 months apart and not 6 weeks apart.

I was just using 6 weeks as an example - what I mean is that you should have them spaced closely apart as directed, rather than giving one dose and then waiting like 6 months before the second.

[EdnaMarie]

Actually, yes, in that case, it is true for some vaccines because the body keeps the memory of the antigen for so long when it's very young. You have to keep them up or you do lose some of the immunity.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by KLM99

1. Giving the combination vaccines is better because they have less of the additives and adjuvants than would giving each vaccine separately.

2. In a younger child, you need to give the vaccine doses close together or else whatever immunity that was given for the first dose doesn't "stick." So for example, if you give the Hib, you should give the second dose no more than 6 weeks after otherwise the first dose will be ineffective.

Thoughts?

For #1, it depends on what brands and which additives are of concern. The other part would be whether a parent is intending to vaccinate with all of the vaccines that are part of the combo. You can do math for things like aluminum content, I'm not sure if the amounts of other chemicals are called out as clearly.

On #2, CDC specifically says that if one vaccine in a series is delayed, you do not start over, you just continue the series, regardless of the delay. Rotavirus, because it's only given in a specific window, is different.

[Lady Lilya]

Re number 1...

I would think it all comes down to whether or not the additives are your main concern, or the strain on the immune system of being hit with multiple strenuous diseases at once.

Personally I don't think either option is acceptable.

[Juvysen]

the other thing about the first part... you may be getting less *total*, say, aluminum, but you would be getting more all at once than if you get them separately and space them out in time. So it may give the body more of a chance of actually clearing it out efficiently than if you're giving a megadose...

[Fyrestorm]

Correct on number 1 - but at what cost. In the case of a reaction, they will never know what it's from.

#2....Since most additional doses are based on the fact that they don't get a high enough conversion rate from the first dose that they add more. Your child may or may not convert from the first dose..the second...the third...the forth...or maybe not at all. They don't know and no one ever bothers to check, they just keep giving shots after shot after shot and hope enough kids convert.

[dakotablue]

# 2 my ped said the same thing. We had 2 vaxes before stopping and he said that we would have to redo them since its been so long if we chose to, he also said he doesn't think those vaxes are necessary for DS.

[franc]

*1 true and false. Today I saw my new family doctor for my 2 and half years old son: we had decided, when I was a newborn, to wait for immunization for some reasons...But now I tought it was time to go ahead, so I asked if we can schedule the immunization in order to let him go to a daycare. Here in Ontario, it's compulsory! I've found a job in a school where there is a daycare. My Doctor wrote a letter explaining the reasons why my previous pediatrician, with compassion, said yes to our request at the time. Then she gave me the package insert of the 5-in-1  and of the Prevnar 13.

She did that because, before Christmas, I had a misccarriage, and needed a vaccin RHo, and I asked for a mercury free one.

I'm sorry to tell you that, If I understand what I read in the insert for the prevnar and for the 5-in-1, there's aluminum instead of mercury, but not less. I beleive that the less additives statement is doubtful.

[franc]

hi!

I worry a lot. It's about the 5-in-1 shot. Help! What do you think?

Now, obviously, I don't have to worry about the mercury in the shots for my son but...

When I think of my daughter's story, I just have no words! Today I spent time on few websites about vaccination. My daughter, who is now 4 and half years old, was in that group of childrens with that 1 to 10 % side effects concerning gastrointestinal disorders. Painful, scary, sad,...Someone may think that compare to autism or other similar linked disorders, it's nothing but...My sweet pretty girl had so much fever, tantrums, diarrea, and vomiting after her 9 months shots and 12 months shots, (and it lasted for 4 days and for 1 month), not to talk about not eating or drinking at all for days and her weight loss, that I decided that she will never receive any more shots ever! Now she's at school, but they request the meningitis shot to be giving. My aunt had a little brother who died from the meningitis, so if I had the choice , I would ask for that shot only.

And what to do with my son who never received any shot since birth? Do my job and his needed place in the daycare worth it?

Help!

[MyBoysBlue]

The quoted statement is not true.  Nowhere in Canada is Vaccination compulsory for daycare or school. 

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/97vol23/23s4/23s4b_e.html

http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/canada.htm

Originally Posted by franc I asked if we can schedule the immunization in order to let him go to a daycare. Here in Ontario, it's compulsory!

[lunarlady]

In some cases, the combo shot does have less additives than the individual shots given separately, but not always. Obviously it is more at one time, and a good option if you were planning to give all those shots at once.

As for being ineffective...many children's immune systems have poor "memory", which means the shot provides immunity at first, but then fades over the weeks/months until the next shot, which "boosts" the immunity back up. So if you give a shot and wait way longer than the recommendation, the immunity could wear off. Not that the first shot is ineffective, just that the effectiveness is limited to a certain time frame. So exposure, say, six or eight months after the shot could be dangerous since immunity wears down, esp. in small kids.

After several reminders, most kids systems will "remember" and have a decent (although sometimes still imperfect) immunity. This is why it takes four shots of whooping cough vaccine to provide partial immunity in a child, but only one shot to give very stong immunity in an adult. This is also why they are now doing vaccine boosters for some illnesses in adults. Immunity is not always life long, and they now know many immunities fade over time.

So immanance to exposure is something you should consider in vaccines. Waiting to give shots can actually mean less shots over all, since shots in a mature system are more effective. Of course, some illnesses are very dangerous for children, and not for adults, so it is a balancing act either way.

[soso-lynn]

It is most definitely not compulsory in Ontario.

Originally Posted by franc 

*1 true and false. Today I saw my new family doctor for my 2 and half years old son: we had decided, when I was a newborn, to wait for immunization for some reasons...But now I tought it was time to go ahead, so I asked if we can schedule the immunization in order to let him go to a daycare. Here in Ontario, it's compulsory! I've found a job in a school where there is a daycare. My Doctor wrote a letter explaining the reasons why my previous pediatrician, with compassion, said yes to our request at the time. Then she gave me the package insert of the 5-in-1  and of the Prevnar 13.

She did that because, before Christmas, I had a misccarriage, and needed a vaccin RHo, and I asked for a mercury free one.

I'm sorry to tell you that, If I understand what I read in the insert for the prevnar and for the 5-in-1, there's aluminum instead of mercury, but not less. I beleive that the less additives statement is doubtful.

[franc]

Thank you all for your answers!

Thanks to My Boys Blue for the links.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by franc 

*1 true and false. Today I saw my new family doctor for my 2 and half years old son: we had decided, when I was a newborn, to wait for immunization for some reasons...But now I tought it was time to go ahead, so I asked if we can schedule the immunization in order to let him go to a daycare. Here in Ontario, it's compulsory! I've found a job in a school where there is a daycare. My Doctor wrote a letter explaining the reasons why my previous pediatrician, with compassion, said yes to our request at the time. Then she gave me the package insert of the 5-in-1  and of the Prevnar 13.

She did that because, before Christmas, I had a misccarriage, and needed a vaccin RHo, and I asked for a mercury free one.

I'm sorry to tell you that, If I understand what I read in the insert for the prevnar and for the 5-in-1, there's aluminum instead of mercury, but not less. I beleive that the less additives statement is doubtful.

Bolding mine.  I have had children in daycare, preschool and public school in Ontario.  The bolded is not true.  You have to sign a statement of conscience to get children exempt from vaccines (which are then stored at the Health Unit) but they cannot force you to vax. 
 

Edited to add:  I see other people have already covered this.  Oops - I should read entire threads before responding, lol

[Lisa1970]

They don't do the HIB 6 weeks apart anyway so he was a bit off on that. 

Plus, the HIB is one of the infant only shots none of my children will ever have (except the older ones had it, but we will never do it again).