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post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by gardeningmom
[B]I don't believe that tantrums are a form of communication, but a form of manipulation.
I can totally see how this myth has perpetuated itself through generation after generation. If one goes into the situation with the idea that children can and will be manipulative, then a tantrum most certainly fits those expectations.

And, the usual advice then is to treat the behaviour as something negative and undesirable. As mamaduck has explained, this simply results in the child internalizing feelings of conflict and they usually manifest themselves later in other destructive ways. Also, it most definitely sends a message to the child that it is not "right" for them to be experiencing the feelings they are experiencing (note this is very different from sending the message that the emotions are valid but the *expression of those emotions* needs work).

However, things are not always as they seem, and this is always most true when you go into a situation with a pre-determined idea of what is really going on. A hypothesis may seem "proven" by an observation, but the real test is to try and "disprove" it. And it *has* been disproven that children are manipulative in that way.

Study after study has shown that young children's brains simply don't work like that, they don't think that way. Manipulative behaviour is actually a rather complex function, involving the "higher thinking" parts of the brain such as the pre-frontal cortex. THIS REGION IS NOT FULLY DEVELOPED IN YOUNG CHILDREN. They simply are not capable of thinking in such a manner. They are largely REACTIVE creatures, which is to say that there is a very pure and simple connection between "data in" and "data out". They want a pen -> mama says no -> they exprience a wave of emotion -> they express that as purely as they feel it. That's it. There is no deduction involved "oh, maybe if I stomp my feet and yell then I can tick her off so much that she will let me have that pen".


Quote:
My 14 month old will point at something she may want, if it is something appropriate I may give it to her , but if it something she shouldn't have I don't. Generally she'll whine or stomp her little feet if she doesn't get it.
With all due respect, why are you so sure that she is being manipulative? I have to say that, developmentally, 14 months is so incredibly young. I'm sure that no childhood development specialist would confirm your analysis that this is "manipulation". So I'm curious as to why you are so sure that is the case.

Could you not entertain the idea that your child is experiencing a strong emotion (disappointment, anger, frustration) and is expressing it the only way she knows how? Can you acknowledge that we, as a society, have "rules" for how emotions are to be expressed (for better or for worse) and that this behaviour has to be taught and learned?

Quote:
I don't want to encourage that behaviour. Does that make sense to anyone?
Absolutely! Nobody wants to encourage that behaviour. I'm just suggesting to you that perhaps there are ways of going about that (changing the behaviour) that don't ascribe sinister motivations to a child, or other underlying thinking patterns that they are neurologically incapable of.

I say this with all due respect, honestly. But I strongly encourage you to check out some early childhood education websites, also developmental psychology is a good field. Not your usual "self help" style books by "experts" who are going to tell you what to do, but real science that delves into the study of how infants think, how they process information, etc. It is truly a fascinating area! (I never tire of those cute baby experiments in critical thinking that usually involve toys and surprises, lol).

Anyways, I'm picking on you as an example but I mean no disrespect.
post #22 of 28
What Piglet said!!

Great posts, Piglet!
post #23 of 28
piglet, I love how you've explained this. And even though my 'tantrum' thrower is 7 years old, I must remind myself, that (in general) she is not being manipulative, she is so upset about something that she just doesn't know how to express herself appropriately.

thankyou, thankyou!
post #24 of 28
Wow! I'm just reading this thread & have to say thanks! It really is helping clarify a LOT about tantrums.

I've been reading "The Happiest Toddler on the Block" and Dr. Karp's methods are very close to what Piglet is describing. Dr. Karp talks about the emotions of toddlers being very primitive and it's our job as parents to accept them & teach them during a tantrum about their feelings and wants in very simple language at a level appropriate for their primitive brains. He uses the basic communication skills of reflecting back just what you see without interpreting, then mirroring the feelings you observe in your child and then, once the tantrum has calmed down offer alternatives, or whatever (he's got several good ideas in this book).

Great thread - thank you!
post #25 of 28
late to the party.
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by pamelamama
late to the party.



pam, I don't know what it is about that popcorn smiley but every time I see it I crack up!!
post #27 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Piglet68





With all due respect, why are you so sure that she is being manipulative? I have to say that, developmentally, 14 months is so incredibly young. I'm sure that no childhood development specialist would confirm your analysis that this is "manipulation". So I'm curious as to why you are so sure that is the case.

Could you not entertain the idea that your child is experiencing a strong emotion (disappointment, anger, frustration) and is expressing it the only way she knows how? Can you acknowledge that we, as a society, have "rules" for how emotions are to be expressed (for better or for worse) and that this behaviour has to be taught and learned?



Piglet, this post did make me rethink this a bit. Sam is 11 months and when Savanna (or anyone else) takes something from him he screams. I accept this because it is his only way of comunication at this time. So, maybe I need to re-evaluate how I react to Savanna. That being said. SHe is one of those children that needs to be by herself. Just like her daddy. Sometimes if I try to talk to her I end up just making it worse. We have that a lot in the car. If she's mad about something and we try to talk to her, she just screams louder (this is almost always when we have to go pick dh up from work at 1 am. She gets woken up when I put her in the car.). My dh and I have learned that we just have to not talk to her, so basically ignore her. She just doesn't like to be talked to while upset. But, I will re-evaluate how I react and see if I can come up with something else. Thank you for your insight. I wish this hadn't gotten so contensious (I know I so spelled that wrong).
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by seren
She just doesn't like to be talked to while upset.
And I think it's great that you respect that, too. Obviously, some children are going to be that way, or need some space, etc. and there's no point talking to them at that time if it drives them nuts, lol. There are many ways we can validate our children's emotions without talking a blue streak to them. I actually think facial expressions can say a whole lot to our kids. We really have to figure out how best to communicate with our children, and it sounds to me like you and your DH are doing that.
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