What do you do when your 4-year old severely BITES a baby on her FACE for no reason?! - Page 3

[lach]

Originally Posted by Acupuncturist

I'm sorry, I guess I don't see in the original post where the little girl was held accountable. OP states:

"She knew she did something wrong because she was sitting in the corner with her head down. I quietly brought her upstairs to her bed, and talked to her about how it was very bad to bite a baby, how much she hurt her, etc. At firat she was upset and crying, but then DD basically just got pissy, and said "I thought you were a good mommy, but now you are being a bad mommy!"

She stayed up there for about 15 minutes, then came down and was being cranky and annoying, clearly seeking attention, but refusing to apologize and showing no remorse. she eventually came out of it and started being nice, but said that she didn't feel bad about biting the baby."

This is not accountability. It is permissiveness. I do not have perfect kids and I know what it's like to be the parent of the biter -- I speak from the experience of having had two kids (my twins) who went through a bad biting phase (when they were 18 months old). My husband is a professor of child development at a major university and we have done our best to provide our kids with consequences that mimic what they will experience in the real world (as appropriate to their age, of course). When you do socially unacceptable things like bite, people are don't like it and don't want to be your friend. For a two year old this means using an angry mommy voice and removing the child from the play date for a period of time. For a four year old this means putting on a show of being absolutely horrified and certainly not allowing the child to rejoin the social occasion that day.

I'm sorry, but I agree with the above post.

I think the princess thing is a bit of a stretch, fwiw.

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by Acupuncturist

I have to say, the first thing that jumped out to me about this post was OP's signature and the way she describes the offending DD: "my pretty princess". I know I'm new around here and perhaps it sounds harsh, but I have noticed a disproportionate number of brats among the little girls I know who are parented as though they are "princesses". Seriously -- what do you think of when you think of a "princess"? A polite person? A considerate person? An intelligent, kind, or helpful person? Or a person who has learned to throw a fit (or bite) if she isn't the center of attention or she doesn't get her way?

It's a good thing that I am the mother of three boys, because I have no patience for divas. And I have to say, things would not be okay between me and a friend who allowed her four year old to bite my baby black and blue.

The leap from "pretty princess" to "diva" is very judgmental, unsubstantiated and completely off-topic.

OP- do you feel that you parent "permissively"? Or do you have clear rules and guidelines for your 4 yr old? I have a 4.5 yr old and while I tend to lean towards permissiveness, I recognize that his behavior improves with clear expectations and consequences (no means no, etc.).

[mammal_mama]

Those of you who are dawging princesses really need to watch, "The Princess Protection Program." Also, "The Princess Diaries."

I mean, if the OP put "crunchy mom" in her siggy would you assume that this was the cause of the biting? The poor kid just needs more Micky D's and then she won't bite?

Or if she put "AP mama" or "breastfeeding mom" (for all I know she may have, 'cause I can't remember), would you be saying it must be all the breastmilk she got during those early formative years?

OP, I still think you're doing a great job.

I guess there really are a few folks out there who would dis another mama over this, but rest assured there are many of us who would stand by you! Many of us know that we'll need our friends to stand by us, many times.

I suppose it's natural to look for ways to blame the OP about the incident. After all, we live in a rather blaming society, with all kinds of lawsuits and all kinds of bending-over-backward to avoid getting blamed for something. It can be really hard to avoid being blame-and-shame focused and to choose the path of understanding and empathy instead.

But I believe the OP will be really glad she chose the higher road. OP, I hope you're giving your little princess lots of love and cuddling, and just enjoying these precious days before your new little one arrives!

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by Acupuncturist

I know I'm new around here

Yes, new. MDC is a great place to come for support. If you read through the thread you will see that lots of mamas gave similar practical advice as you gave. The OP replied that she is going to get some additional help.

If I were you I would have mentioned that I agreed with some of the PP (previous posters) and checked to see how the OP was going with the extra help.

If I really felt the princess thing was super important I may have asked the OP for more info about that word in their family or gently suggested that she consider the implications of that word and why you feel that way.

I think the GD (gentle discipline) forum is a great place to practice GD!!!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by rainbow_mandala

I don't see how she handled it as a "reward" for the behavior. I see it more so as a means for treating her like a human being, not an object to be controlled. Also, the child is clearly seeking attention, so isolating her is not going to help...it will more than likely only add to the underlying problem.

Sometimes 4-year-olds just don't understand that what they did was wrong nor do they always feel remorse or compassion. Sometimes they are simply feeling needy and are acting out, not contemplating their actions beforehand because, well, they're little kids. I feel that aggressive behavior is a sign that they're not feeling heard or acknowledged in some way or another and they're unable to communicate these needs and feelings. I also agree with many other posters that therapy will probably help quite a bit with getting to the root of the issue (I've heard many wonderful things about art therapy for kids).

My son sometimes throws things at or near people in order to get our attention and let us know that he needs something. If we were to shun him for this or try to control his behavior then this would only make him act out more in the long run (or make him shut down internally). I feel that giving them the space to voice what they're experiencing and feeling is very helpful in honoring their needs/getting to the root of things. I've found that if I sit down with my son after he's been throwing stuff, just simply holding him and asking him questions then he will feel safe with releasing what's going on inside of him and the throwing stops. Over time, he's been throwing less and less because (I think) he's understanding more and more that he can come and tell me what's going on without having to throw and he's also simply growing out of that phase.

The bottom line is, kids just want to be heard like anyone else. They want to be seen, they want to be acknowledged, they want to be and feel loved.

My problem with the bolded is that the OP was giving positive attention to the negative behavior. If you say, "Because you bit, you sit" and then make sure they stay sitting for a few minutes, its paying less attention to negative behavior. When children are given attention (any kind) for negative behavior, they continue to do it. They need to be given positive attention when they do positive things, and realize that when they do negative things they don't get attention, and there are consequences.

[aihley]

The action, to me, reads as aggression. Now, aggression is a perfectly normal human behavior but it needs to be carefully directed. I think the stress and inevitable reduction in attention that is happening and which is going to likely increase when the new little one moves in is elevating her need to express her aggression and reducing her impulse control. Having aggressive feelings in no way means she is unloving or mean or incapable of very tender acts of empathy you described with her younger sibling. Is there some way she can get out her aggressive impulses in a way that is not harmful to others? A karate class, perhaps? A punching bag?

Therapy does not indicate something is horribly wrong with your child and it is a travesty that it is not more widely available. Therapy will most likely help her tremendously and would likely help any child whether there is an identified "problem" or not. We're not saying your child is "broken" by saying she needs therapy, merely that she needs someone (preferably experienced in the field) to help her process her emotions and provide both of you with acceptable, alternative outlets for her aggression.

I would also wonder if perhaps she has realized (probably unconsciously) that saying she is not remorseful garners her more of your coveted attention. I'm guessing that, in the past, a "talk" about what she did wrong usually ends when she acknowledges the appropriate feelings of sorrow and remorse and promises not to do it again - she doesn't seem to want that attention to end so it follows that if she refuses to express the statements you want her to, you will continue talking with her about it. I would see what happens if you ignore her negative statements (as they likely do not represent her actual feelings) and reward, with one-on-one attention, acts and statements of empathy.

I'm so sorry you are both going through this, it is clearly a stressful and emotional time for both you and your DD.