baby lead weaning (solids) questions

[KellyandBean]

So DD (7.5 mos) HATES purees. She doesn't want to be fed but wants to feed herself (or chew on the spoon anyway) so i gave her a teething cookie a few weeks ago and quickly learned she loves to eat so long as she is in control. We gave her an apple to suck on and that was great..she just got the juice out...then i got these puff cheerio things and she actually chewed them! I was shocked to see her moving her jaw and that she has pincher grasp to pick them up. But then the next time i gave her them she gagged so hard she puked up. It was kinda of scary :/ now both my hubby and i are freaked out about giving her anything else although she goes nuts whenever i eat in front of her now. I know she wants to eat but i'm to scared to feed her anything...so how do you get over the fear? Is i normal for her to gag in the beginning? I really want to hear others experiences with starting BLW...how did you cut the food up and at what age did you start?? Was there a lot of gagging and when did they learn to handle the little chunks and not gag?

[Knitting Mama]

Gagging is very normal, and is actually a part of the learning process. Choking is totally different. Here are some resources that might help you:

http://baby-led.rhgdsrv.co.uk/pdf/blwleaflet.pdf
http://www.becomingmamas.com/baby-le...arting-solids/
http://www.babyledweaning.com/index....240&Itemid=118

[Keeta]

re: purees - my DS is almost 8 months and isn't as crazy about them as other finger foods (teething biscuits, apple slices, soft fruit in the chewy bag) BUT one trick I've found to make the puree thing work (if you want to - it's totally not necessary) is to use two spoons. A) I give a teeny bit of puree on the spoon and get it near his moutn. B) He grabs the spoon, chews on it a while, some of the puree is inevitably eaten. C) Load up spoon #2, get him interested and switch. Rinse and repeat.

[SubliminalDarkness]

It can be a little scary at first, I agree. I think we're just not accustomed to seeing babies eat actual solid foods, so it seems strange. But it's, really, how babies are meant to begin eating. And it's the best thing for them!

The links already posted are great, and I encourage you and your DH to read them.

Some gagging IS normal, and is healthy, as was said. It's how babies learn how much to eat and so on. Gagging and choking are not one and the same.

Good luck!

[terra-pip]

oh man are you going to have to get used to the gagging thing. They can do it into toddlerhood as well when they get too much in their mouth. My 3 year old has puked/gagged on lettuce, oranges, pancakes...you name it.

Just have that finger ready to swipe out any food that neds help coming up. It is scary nearly every time. But you get used to it. Coughing is good...they aren't choking if they are coughing, but they may need a little help getting the food out. Get used to having partly chewed gunk spit into your hand at random moments.

Maybe your LO would like in between foods? Instead of puree you could mash up some food soft but with some easy to chew and swallow chunks.

[Nicole730]

Originally Posted by Keeta

re: purees - my DS is almost 8 months and isn't as crazy about them as other finger foods (teething biscuits, apple slices, soft fruit in the chewy bag) BUT one trick I've found to make the puree thing work (if you want to - it's totally not necessary) is to use two spoons. A) I give a teeny bit of puree on the spoon and get it near his moutn. B) He grabs the spoon, chews on it a while, some of the puree is inevitably eaten. C) Load up spoon #2, get him interested and switch. Rinse and repeat.

I was going to do BLW, but the gagging freaks me out. We do this instead.

[terra-pip]

I have to say this. Baby Led Weaning does not mean letting babies eat what they want whenever. Once a breastfed infant starts eating solids around 6 months or so, then parents do need to monitor eating, for things that could cause choking or allergies etc. Babies naturally want to mouth things and don't really get what they can eat safely or not.


Baby Led Weaning is a breastfeeding term, nothing to do with solids feeding. It simply means that you are allowing them to nurse as long as they like...I baby led weaned my oldest children. One nursed until 3 1/2 and the other till 2 1/2.

Breastfeeding without doing baby led weaning would mean that you nursed until some specific date and then initiated weaning whether the baby wanted it or not...such as introducing formula at 3 months or 6 months or cutting out nursing by 12 or 18 months...thats parent led weaning.

Introducing solids safely with a mind to screening for what is appropriate for a baby to eat at certain ages has nothing to do with weaning per se. Of course your baby is weaning while getting nourishment from something other than your milk...but as long as you are still nursing whenever a baby or child wants to...even into toddlerhood.. you are baby or child led weaning.

[Knitting Mama]

Actually, baby-led weaning does refer to solids that are table food rather than purees. You're thinking of child-led weaning, which refers to nursing as long as they want to nurse.

[terra-pip]

Originally Posted by Cecilia's Mama

Actually, baby-led weaning does refer to solids that are table food rather than purees. You're thinking of child-led weaning, which refers to nursing as long as they want to nurse.

okay I wiki-ed it. This is a new one for me. And something I wouldn't ever try. Babies don't know what is best for them, they need to be taught what is best for them. Risking choking seems silly imo.

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by terra-pip

okay I wiki-ed it. This is a new one for me. And something I wouldn't ever try. Babies don't know what is best for them, they need to be taught what is best for them. Risking choking seems silly imo.

I was worried about this too...but actually noticed that DS was good about monitoring how much went into his mouth at a time. He could only pick up tiny pieces with his little fingers (like, a few grains of rice or small pieces of meat) It's better, IMO, than shoving a spoon full of food at them. *shrugs* Gagging is totally normal (and he still does it at 18mo when he loses track of how much he put in his mouth) If Gagging is a fear then a lesson on infant choking can help the parents.

[Knitting Mama]

Originally Posted by terra-pip

okay I wiki-ed it. This is a new one for me. And something I wouldn't ever try. Babies don't know what is best for them, they need to be taught what is best for them. Risking choking seems silly imo.

The interesting thing is, they do actually seem to know what to do. And there's a huge difference between gagging (part of the process) and actual choking (which happens just as easily with purees as it does with finger food).

[aramat]

I'd never heard of the baby-led weaning method of introducing solids until this (my third) baby. I feel it is very important to trust my mothering instincts, and the idea of watching baby gag makes me entirely too uncomfortable. I feel like an old fuddy-duddy to admit this, but I just don't understand BLW.

I don't give any purees, but I do give appropriately sized pieces of real foods. The only thing I don't break-down right now is crackers. Haven't tried apples yet. My chubby, six-toothed 10-mo-old eats mostly beans, but also bananas, crackers, rice, slow-cooked beef, avocado, potatoes, and the occasional bell pepper.

[indigosky]

I just wanted to point out that there's a brand-new book on BLW which is truly excellent: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/161519021X/

I bought it from the UK when I was doing BLW with DD (it wasn't available in the U.S. then). But now it's here! I'm a huge BLW fan -- and choking/gagging was definitely not something that happened frequently for us (if ever?).

[AFWife]

On gagging:

I think I remember reading (possibly on a BLW website or something) that an infant's gag reflex is farther up in their throat/mouth than an adult's. So, when they gag it's due to food being at the back of the mouth and not necessarily in the throat.

[tankgirl73]

That's how I understand it, yes. The gag reflex is further forward specifically as protection from choking while baby is learning how to manipulate food in their mouths. It naturally moves further back as they get older, coordinating perfectly with their development in the skills of chewing and swallowing.

Spoonfeeding purees can bypass this safety mechanism, denying babies the opportunity to practice handling food in their mouths while it's safer. When they are expected to learn to chew, the reflex has moved further back and offers less protection.

As for the terminology, what we have to realize is that the term "baby-led weaning" was popularized in Britain. In Britain, the term "weaning" has a slightly different meaning than on this side of the pond. We tend to associate 'weaning' with "the complete cessation of breastfeeding." It's a single event. For instance, you might say, last week my baby had not weaned, but now she is.

The British term thinks of weaning as a process. It does have to do with cessation of breastfeeding, but only ultimately... it refers to the ENTIRE process of gradually moving from complete dependence on breastmilk to complete independence. Therefore, weaning begins with the very first introduction of solid foods. The whole process might still take 2 or more years to finish, but it definitely starts with the first solid foods. And when the baby no longer breastfeeds, they don't say "she weaned", they say "she has finished weaning."

I have actually come to really appreciate that way of thinking about weaning. Our usual way is all about the finality, the conclusion, the end, the loss of the breastfeeding relationship (even when we're relieved that it's finished). Seeing it as a whole and natural process is just so much more... well, wholesome.

And finally, I will vehemently disagree that babies don't know what's best for them and we have to 'teach' them. We don't "teach" them to breastfeed, neither do we teach them to sleep when we want them to, or nurse only when we think they should. Okay, I know SOME people do, but not around these forums. We already believe that baby knows best about when it is hungry and needs to nurse, when it needs to sleep, when it needs to cuddle with mommy. And for CLW, we believe baby knows best about when it's time to stop nursing, how slowly or quickly to take the process. We trust them, or perhaps more accurately, we trust their instincts, that their natural drives are programmed for their ideal survival and development.

So why should it be so surprising to consider trusting these same instincts in regards to solid food? Eating is an essential survival mechanism. We wouldn't get very far as a species if we had to teach our children how to eat!

Yes, we have to be on guard that the curious little monsters don't put anything dangerous in their mouths. But that's not what BLW is about. BLW simply means that at mealtimes, we don't plan and measure and schedule and spoonfeed. We take healthy food that we ourselves would eat, put it in front of the baby, and they're free to eat it -- or not. They might just explore it, and that's part of the learning process too. There are surprisingly few restrictions... TRULY chokable things like peanuts, obviously... it's really just common sense.

And this isn't some new-fangled hippy thing that some crazy parents have suddenly taken up. It's been researched, and it's actually pretty much the standard method for many cultures around the world. Yeah, the gagging thing takes a little getting used to. But after the first few times of watching my daughter go BLEAHHHH and stuff come oozing out of her mouth... I realized "okay, the food is coming out, that's the whole point... she's fine, she's happy, she's immediately going for more food, she's not hurt..."

It's just a little bit icky, that's all. But so many things about baby care are icky!

[brennan]

Originally Posted by AFWife

On gagging:

I think I remember reading (possibly on a BLW website or something) that an infant's gag reflex is farther up in their throat/mouth than an adult's. So, when they gag it's due to food being at the back of the mouth and not necessarily in the throat.

Yeah I remember reading this as well. With dd I would always say "can you work it out?" but that was mostly to reassure me, by the time I swallowed what I was eating and got that out she had worked it out. If not then I would just sweep the food out of her mouth and start over. Gagging is a part of learning to eat, but gagging is NOT chocking! If I was relaxed about it, she was too. I remember eating with my mil and dd started gagging and she jumped up to do something about it and 2 seconds later dd had it worked out.

Good luck!

[brennan]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

That's how I understand it, yes. The gag reflex is further forward specifically as protection from choking while baby is learning how to manipulate food in their mouths. It naturally moves further back as they get older, coordinating perfectly with their development in the skills of chewing and swallowing.

Spoonfeeding purees can bypass this safety mechanism, denying babies the opportunity to practice handling food in their mouths while it's safer. When they are expected to learn to chew, the reflex has moved further back and offers less protection.

As for the terminology, what we have to realize is that the term "baby-led weaning" was popularized in Britain. In Britain, the term "weaning" has a slightly different meaning than on this side of the pond. We tend to associate 'weaning' with "the complete cessation of breastfeeding." It's a single event. For instance, you might say, last week my baby had not weaned, but now she is.

The British term thinks of weaning as a process. It does have to do with cessation of breastfeeding, but only ultimately... it refers to the ENTIRE process of gradually moving from complete dependence on breastmilk to complete independence. Therefore, weaning begins with the very first introduction of solid foods. The whole process might still take 2 or more years to finish, but it definitely starts with the first solid foods. And when the baby no longer breastfeeds, they don't say "she weaned", they say "she has finished weaning."

I have actually come to really appreciate that way of thinking about weaning. Our usual way is all about the finality, the conclusion, the end, the loss of the breastfeeding relationship (even when we're relieved that it's finished). Seeing it as a whole and natural process is just so much more... well, wholesome.

And finally, I will vehemently disagree that babies don't know what's best for them and we have to 'teach' them. We don't "teach" them to breastfeed, neither do we teach them to sleep when we want them to, or nurse only when we think they should. Okay, I know SOME people do, but not around these forums. We already believe that baby knows best about when it is hungry and needs to nurse, when it needs to sleep, when it needs to cuddle with mommy. And for CLW, we believe baby knows best about when it's time to stop nursing, how slowly or quickly to take the process. We trust them, or perhaps more accurately, we trust their instincts, that their natural drives are programmed for their ideal survival and development.

So why should it be so surprising to consider trusting these same instincts in regards to solid food? Eating is an essential survival mechanism. We wouldn't get very far as a species if we had to teach our children how to eat!

Yes, we have to be on guard that the curious little monsters don't put anything dangerous in their mouths. But that's not what BLW is about. BLW simply means that at mealtimes, we don't plan and measure and schedule and spoonfeed. We take healthy food that we ourselves would eat, put it in front of the baby, and they're free to eat it -- or not. They might just explore it, and that's part of the learning process too. There are surprisingly few restrictions... TRULY chokable things like peanuts, obviously... it's really just common sense.

And this isn't some new-fangled hippy thing that some crazy parents have suddenly taken up. It's been researched, and it's actually pretty much the standard method for many cultures around the world. Yeah, the gagging thing takes a little getting used to. But after the first few times of watching my daughter go BLEAHHHH and stuff come oozing out of her mouth... I realized "okay, the food is coming out, that's the whole point... she's fine, she's happy, she's immediately going for more food, she's not hurt..."

It's just a little bit icky, that's all. But so many things about baby care are icky!

Good post! Couldn't have said it better myself!

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by terra-pip

okay I wiki-ed it. This is a new one for me. And something I wouldn't ever try. Babies don't know what is best for them, they need to be taught what is best for them. Risking choking seems silly imo.

They don't, but their physiology does. They don't choke because they have a lovely gag reflex to keep stuff they can't swallow away from the back of the throat.

Purees, otoh, can be sucked right back past the gag reflex and possibly choke the baby if the baby isn't ready to swallow at the right point. Especially when transitioning from liquids to lumpier purees.

Or with an older baby who hasn't had any practice moving real food around in their mouth, the gag reflex moves too far back in the mouth for the baby to be able to handle getting the food back out (since they haven't had practice) and the baby chokes.

In fact, I'd bet with the puree method of introducing food, babies are most likely going to choke when lumps are added to purees and when they encounter table food for the first time. And people who are used to that hear about BLW and think that "OMG a little tiny baby is BOUND to choke on anything with any kind of texture!!" When really, BLW actually avoids the major choking hazards of the puree method.

We teach babies stuff like which books they can pull down and look down whenever they want. We don't need to teach them stuff like walking (although we help them practice) or eating (although we help them practice).

And some btdt anec"data", dd has gagged maybe 15 times total (over estimating because I don't want to underestimate) and I've had to do a mouth sweep twice to actually help her get the food out so it wouldn't choke her. That's no more than 15 times in 19 months of eating food. All of her cousins, OTOH, have had true choking episodes and have gagged 15 times just in the times I've seen them at meals--which wasn't that often.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

she's fine, she's happy, she's immediately going for more food,

Often the same food that just came out.

I should add, I don't consider blehing food to be "gagging". It happens after gagging, but can happen on it's own without the gag reflex kicking in. In one case it's a reflex and in another it's deliberate because the baby realized they couldn't manage the mouthful.

[tankgirl73]

I should add, I don't consider blehing food to be "gagging". It happens after gagging, but can happen on it's own without the gag reflex kicking in. In one case it's a reflex and in another it's deliberate because the baby realized they couldn't manage the mouthful.

True indeed! I was just referring to the gagging 'bleahs'... just spitting it out on purpose isn't at all 'scary' for the parent, but the gagging bleah can be at first, when you're not used to it. You're right though that the 'bleah' part when the food comes out is after the gag itself.