Is nightweaning the answer?

[LizzieRed]

I have a 22 month old daughter who can no longer fall asleep without nursing, except in the car. She slept better when she was younger and would take a pacifier or a bottle...but her dependence on me and nursing has been getting more intense with age instead of less. She will only nap or go to sleep at night while nursing. When she stirs between sleep cycles, about every 45 mintues to an hour, she needs to nurse to settle and sleep again. We've tried variations of the "Pantley" method or being soothed with DH instead of Mom, but we get a day or two of progress only to go back to me nursing her every hour or two all night.
We have a "family bed" which consists of a queen mattress on the floor for me and DH and a twin mattress next to it. When given the choice, DD likes to sleep alone with plenty of room to move when she is asleep...but when she stirs she wants to suck to get back to sleep.
I am tired of being the only one who can put my DD to sleep and I feel prisoner to a long bedtime routine. I am constantly exhausted from being woken up every few hours. I am sore from sleeping on one side all the time to nurse her. I am somewhat disillusioned about the attachment parenting and child led weaning advocates because I feel like my DD is getting more dependent on me rather than less.
I want to keep nursing my DD, but only if she is getting nourishment from milk not just using me as a human pacifier. She does not nurse in the daytime now unless she is going down for a nap.
Should I night wean her? If I do, will she start nursing more in the daytime? How do I know if she is drinking milk...or just sucking?
Help! I am one of the only Moms I know still nursing...and the only one whose toddler wakes up so much at night. I don't know what to do.

[Shami]

Well, i am up at the wee hours because my nearly three year old is in Daddy's arms right now upset because i won't nurse her back down.

I soooo wanted to do the child led weaning and I have for the most part. I started putting some gentle boundaries which did help a lot.

I could have written your post, except for the family bed part. We had a family bed, but when I gave her the choice to have her own room she went for it. She loves her big girl bed. She still comes in to me when her sleep cycles hit a certain point. Some nights it's 5 or 7 times in a night. But the other night she slept all the way through the night. I kept waking and checking on her when I should have kept sleeping. I couldn't believe it.

My point is that I don't get it either. I kept waiting for her to gradually wean like I have heard others say. I thought that she would eat more and play more and wean. NOPE. Sometimes it's like she's a newborn.
For the most part it's morning noon and night and many times a night.
I think she is too old to wake like that and it can't be good for her sleep.

So, I can let you know how it goes. I don't know if it's appropriate to say on this board, but dh and I decided to wean her cold turkey.
I am not happy that it has come to this, but I do think it will help her mature. I also think she demands it of me and that is not a healthy thing. Then there's the sleep interruption all night for her and me both. I am hoping that since she is pretty smart and verbal, she will get the explanation we've given her.
Last night I asked her which tastes better, vanilla milk shake or nursing? She said milk shake. I said, you know, you are a big girl now and really big girls don't nurse. Do you think that you can stop nursing? She said, yes. I said it might be hard at first, but Daddy and Mommy can teach you how to not nurse any more so you can be a big girl.
Right or Wrong...i dunno. I just give up trying to figure it out.
The reason I think she is ready is because I can usually distract her and she's okay with it.
Tonight Daddy and mommy had a talk with her and told her that she is going to be a big girl and learn how to not nurse. Daddy is going to help you go to sleep with out nursing. She kind of whined about it, but she went with Daddy and went to sleep on his shoulder.
The problem is he can't transfer her to her bed. He's tried 6 times now. She cries and he goes back to the living room chair. It's been 5 hours and they are still in the living room chair. Poor dh.
I can't handle hearing her cry for me and I not go to her. Ugh!
Long rambly 3 am post...sorry
Hope it gets better for all of us.

[annettemarie]

Thread moved to Breastfeeding Beyond Infancy.

[Bald_Bull's_Mama]

Shami, have you seen Dr Jay Gordon's night weaning plan? It still gets night weaning done in a timely manner, but without some of the problems that can be associated with cold turkey weaning. Could be easier on everyone.

Lizzie, have you read the excellent book How Weaning Happens? It's a La Leche League publication. It helped me a lot to adjust my expectations and found the boundaries that are right for both of us. Honestly, I read it expecting to night wean immediately, but it really caused me to think about my son's viewpoint, his needs in the situation. I decided to back off the night weaning and we both have been sleeping better.

Are you feeling an outside influence telling you that you've been nursing too long? That DD doesn't "need" to?

[D_McG]

I weaned both of mine around that age. I wish I'd done it sooner! I think we were both relieved.

[LizzieRed]

Shami: I have thought of weaning cold turkey a lot! I think for some kids, depending on their temperment, it is fine. Let me know how it goes.

Bald Bull's Mama, thanks for the book recommendation, we're going to a book fair this weekend and I'll look for the title.

I really feel like my DD is nursing now more out of habit and demands nursing as a way to control situations that aren't going the way she wants. She demands milk from me and has kicking, screaming tantrums at night if I wont nurse her. A lot of times when I do nurse her she fidgets around and plays and does not really drink milk.

Most days I wish we had weaned much earlier, now that she is a more independent toddler she is very strong willed and making a change now is going to be a much bigger deal than it would have been a year ago. She is our only child, and my DH and I waited a long time to have her, and we went full board on attachment parenting (babywearing, responding to her immediately, co-sleeping, etc). Now I am completely burned out and DD has become more needy and demanding instead of confident.

From reading this board it looks like my DD could continue nursing in this manner for another year or more...and I don't think I can take that! I feel like everyone in DD's life gets to enjoy her when all I get is the grumpy, fidgety, fighting me toddler with a 1-2 hour nap struggle and a 2 hour nightly bedtime fight and then the all night nurse-a-thon. I want and need to enjoy my daughter again and think weaning might be they way to get there, but something is holding me back...

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by LizzieRed

I really feel like my DD is nursing now more out of habit and demands nursing as a way to control situations that aren't going the way she wants. She demands milk from me and has kicking, screaming tantrums at night if I wont nurse her. A lot of times when I do nurse her she fidgets around and plays and does not really drink milk.

Most days I wish we had weaned much earlier, now that she is a more independent toddler she is very strong willed and making a change now is going to be a much bigger deal than it would have been a year ago. She is our only child, and my DH and I waited a long time to have her, and we went full board on attachment parenting (babywearing, responding to her immediately, co-sleeping, etc). Now I am completely burned out and DD has become more needy and demanding instead of confident.

I think what you're feeling is pretty typical. The transition from infant needs (and how to deal with them) to toddler/preschooler needs. I definitely had to develop a new skill set and with my second child did a much better job of the whole thing. I took it less personally, etc.

For us at least what worked was very clear boundaries. I don't particularily like nursing toddlers (and I really hate the 'demand' part of it) so I cut down to predictable times/places and don't waver much from that. It has worked great for us b/c they continue to get the benefit of nursing but also the benefit of developing other coping skills to make life simpler for us.

I weaned both a little before 2 but that was a personal thing.

I would just say not to fear trantrums during this adjustment period. Your job is no longer to stop every tear but to lead her to where you BOTH need her to be. Your needs matter, too!

[LizzieRed]

Thanks!!!

I am really struggling to balance DD's needs versus mine! It is easy to give up everything and focus on her...but I know that is not a good solution long term. Thanks for giving me some ideas, and some courage, to create some boundaries that can hopefully satisfy both of us. It is easy to forget that she is still a baby and needs my help and guidance, especially when our culture pushes independence so early.

[Katielady]

Originally Posted by LizzieRed

I feel like everyone in DD's life gets to enjoy her when all I get is the grumpy, fidgety, fighting me toddler with a 1-2 hour nap struggle and a 2 hour nightly bedtime fight and then the all night nurse-a-thon. I want and need to enjoy my daughter again and think weaning might be they way to get there, but something is holding me back...

Yes! I came into this forum to post my own thread, but found yours, and I've been feeling the same way! At this point I feel like the frequency of nursing is making it so my relationship with DD is less close than it could be, because it's ALL about nursing. She'll barely accept cuddles from me, she just always defaults to asking for "nun-nuns."

I started the Jay Gordon plan a few weeks ago and it was going fairly well the first few nights. But then her 2-year molars started coming in and she wanted to nurse more frequently both during the day and night and I gave up because she was getting way too upset. Actually I think the teething started before that, which is probably why I got frustrated enough to initiate a night-weaning plan in the first place. I hope her teeth finish coming in soon, I really want to start again, but want to do it at a time that will be a bit less stressful and intense.

Originally Posted by D_McG

For us at least what worked was very clear boundaries. I don't particularily like nursing toddlers (and I really hate the 'demand' part of it) so I cut down to predictable times/places and don't waver much from that. It has worked great for us b/c they continue to get the benefit of nursing but also the benefit of developing other coping skills to make life simpler for us.

I'm starting to feel like this will be the answer for us. I can't believe I'm contemplating a nursing schedule after all these years of opposing them for infants. But this is my first time nursing a toddler (I weaned my first at 13 months) and maybe this is what works for me at this age. I have been setting limits for a while now- one of which being no nursing in the car, after she got into a habit of asking to nurse every time we got into the car. I am helping her transition into a little twos class at the moment...she's the youngest in the class and I expected to need to wait with her the first several weeks or beyond, but I'm finding that she's nursing a lot for comfort when she comes over to "check in," and that makes me worry that she'll associate the school with nursing. At the same time, I hate to deny her that simple comfort when she's stressed and trying a new thing.

It's so hard to think clearly when I'm so sleep deprived. Last night was awful...I don't know how often she woke, but starting at like 4 she seemed to nurse non-stop. Every time I tried to unlatch she'd say, "Uh side nun-nun!" and I'm like, "There are only two sides!" Heh. I've even considered introducing a paci. At almost 2!

Anyway OP, I can commiserate, and I hope both of us find solutions soon that work well for everyone involved.

[Shami]

oops, forgot about this thread.
I weaned her cold turkey with dh helping by taking over night time duties. She didn't even cry. I was so thankful that she took it so well. She complained and asked a little. On fri. it will be two full weeks with very little asking and no crying.
I think what prepared her was the boundaries dmg was talking about. I did have some boundaries, which at times a broke in cases of illness or extreme upsetness. My boundaries were only in the morning and at bedtimes and when she woke in the night. Not too strict, huh!
I began talking to her about becoming a bigger girl and how bigger girls don't nurse. Daddy and mama want to teach her how to be a bigger girl with out nursing. She wants to be a bigger girl so it was a little motivation to her.
I struggle a little with the whole phrase, 'be a big girl and do....whatever'. I don't use it like that. maybe i'm bending the phrase a little. I'm not sure why this phrase bugs me but anyway...
It's true that bigger girls don't nurse for the most part. At least all of the bigger girls she knows do not nurse anymore so it applied to her little worlld.

All of that being said, the only thing that has improved is that she can now lay down with daddy and go to sleep without rocking and nursing. Yay.

Now we have to figure out how to help her stay in bed and fall asleep with out daddy laying there. Baby steps.

BTW, she still wakes up in the night, sometimes several times. So, weaning wasn't the magic cure for night waking in our situation. That may or may not be comforting...sorry