Thoughts on HS and children under 5 (?) just thinking

[Stacey B]

Ds is 4 and I was one of the parents here asking questions about homeschooling when he was 18mo (really early). What I really was asking was more complex, what I was asking was how do I get myself ready for this life journey. Lets face it while a lot of homeschooling does have to do with education it is a choice that affects every part of our lives. When we come to this forum asking questions that veterans think seem too early what really are trying to do is educate ourselves. We are excited, we have vague ideas of what it means to homeschool and we want details...now. We want to be in the thick of it even if we don't need to be.

I still get a thrill looking at blogs with older kids, someday.... But what I understand now is that all those questions I was asking when ds couldn't even talk we important, they were helping me to create a framework for my own learning. As well as prepare myself for what is still to come. 4 is by no means a time to start "schooling" (at least that is my opinion), but over the past few months ds has initiated more interest in projects and interest in understanding letters and numbers. I was giddy to actually get our own set of Cuisenard rods, which we play with regularly creating games and seeing just how big numbers are. Right now I feel like I am dipping my toes into the waters of homelearning and I am glad that I did ask all those questions but I am mainly glad that I have stayed around this forum gleaning information from other peoples experiences.

These early years are the time to let your child explore the world and play and listen to stories and have adventures, while you as parents immerse yourselves the breadth of information and experiences of other families.

Just thought I'd share.

[lonegirl]

My son turns 4 next month. Were he in PS he would be in Junior Kindergarten here.
We have started our homeschooling journey. REally it is pretty laid back and mostly play. He is the one who asks for more domino math (basic sums) and reading practice. Our learning is very child-led....He has not been tested but by comparison to most not yet 4y/o we have met he is quite academically advanced. This is part of the reason why homeschooling is the best choice for us (at least for jk and sk). He thrives with workbooks and flashcards....he loves them so I have them readily available.
REally I would say we do a max of 1-2h of actual sit-down learning....the rest of the day is comprised of play. Even the sit-down learning time is fun based!!

[heatherdeg]

I'm not sure you meant what this has stirred in me, but, I read your post and thought "Hmmm... yeah... people are always told 'Just play with and be with your kids!' at that age". But you're right that nobody really addresses anything outside of education of the CHILD vs. having excited parents educate themselves and prepare themselves for the journey.

I think that's kind of a mistake. And for some, not taking that time to prepare themselves COULD leave them in a position where they might buckle in the criticism and worries of the people they are surrounded with (friends, family, spouses, etc.)

Part of it is that we are answering the question asked ("What do I do with them?") and not having the thoughtfulness to advise these parents in areas they didn't ask for help in. Of course, how could they possibly know to ask? I used to hate when I'd start a new job and they'd say "If you have any questions, feel free to ask!" Well, DUH, I didn't know what I didn't know--ya know?

I wish we could post a sticky here for parents of children under 5yo. Give them a pointer to Lillian's website with great stuff to do with preschoolers, but also give them some resources about deschooling themselves or why people choose to home educated ("Dumbing Us Down" comes to mind) and finding out the laws in their state (or a state they know they may wind up in later on). Maybe links to places where you can find toys that make them think... stuff like that. USEful stuff.

Because as an excited parent of an 18mo who's full of energy and nowhere to put it, I think "Just play with them!" (albeit the most appropriate advice, IMO) could not just suck the wind out of their sails and be a huge disappointment, but it can also waste a lot of time that we could be using to help us be stronger in our commitment to what we're doing.

[Stacey B]

That's exactly what I am talking about. This time is when we should be becoming familiar with all this stuff. Yes to everything you said. I'd also suggest books like:

Teach Your Own, Holt
And Skylark Sings With Me, Albert
The Geography of Childhood, Nabhan and Trimble

and on and on...

[SundayCrepes]

I started researching homeschooling when my son was a year or so. We had plans to have another child and I figured if I waited until my son was getting closer to school age I would be too busy with 2 little ones to do good research.

That was a wise choice on my part. Our youngest is such a handful. My homeschool thinking is so much more advanced now due to my early research.

Right now I'm able to concentrate on learning difficulties. In case my daughter has problems as she gets older, I want to be prepared for how to assess and intervene. Starting early just makes sense to me. If I don't need the information, nothing is lost as I am now a little more aware of the world than I was before. If I do need the info, I'm glad to have it.

Perhaps this thread could be made into the aforementioned sticky. Here are links/information I'm offering to other people who are considering homeschooling:


Homeschooling isn't hard. AND the way we're doing it, it will only be fun. If you want to follow a curriculum, there are tons of them out there you can buy for next to nothing to super expensive. Most cities have homeschool groups you can join for ideas, support, and social activities. We’ve been on a tour of the miniature horse farm and a regular firestation and the airport firestation. We've been to a print shop, tortilla factory, recycling center etc. And my oldest is only 4.

I'm doing a lot of reading about delayed schooling. Most European countries don't start formalized education until 7 and their kids do much better than ours.

I recently got into the http://www.sonlight.com books. Their philosophy is that you can sit a child at a desk with a textbook and very little learning will happen or you can cuddle a child on mom or dad's lap on the couch and read an award winning book and lots of learning will happen. They are a religious group so I exclude their religious stuff. I also joined a secular sonlight users group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sonlig...guid=156716553 They've given me some great links to evolution books.

This book addresses how preschool kids learn:
http://www.teachers.tv/videos/sweden-early-years

This is a great book on the advantages of homeschooling. (It recognizes that schools are also a valid choice for education.):
http://www.amazon.com/Homeschooling-...5964468&sr=1-1

Here are a bunch of links that I hope are helpful:

Homeschooling and Socialization:
http://learninfreedom.org/socialization.html
http://www.homeschool.com/articles/s...on/default.asp

Movie about problems with education system:
http://www.racetonowhere.com/

Do schools kill creativity? Very entertaining video with some good points to ponder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

Article on why young kids’ brains aren’t ready for early reading/writing instruction:
http://www.lilipoh.com/articles/2007..._children.aspx

Here’s an article that discusses how children who start academics at later ages do better in the long run:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2752895.stm

Here’s a video on delayed academics in Sweden:
http://www.teachers.tv/videos/sweden-early-years

Youtube videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQQyP9WXKk8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOogqa-5GA

Unschooling definition:
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/earl_stevens.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

I did a search on Peter Gray on the Psychology Today website and he has lots of interesting looking articles. Here are a couple I read:

Math:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...r-own-learning

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ath-in-schools

Reading:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...hemselves-read

Sudsbury School:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...sudbury-valley (The closest we have to Sudsbury in Tucson is the Kino Learning Center.)

Homeschooling forums (mdc):
learning at home
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=50

curriculums
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...play.php?f=425

unschooling
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...play.php?f=439

Tons of great articles about homeschooling. http://www.besthomeschooling.org/gateway/inted16.html

ACT scores–homeschooled compared to general test takers:
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/...llegeTests.htm

Some homeschooling research:

Home-Education: Rationales, Practices and Outcomes
http://pjrothermel.com/phd/Home.htm

Fifteen years later: Home-Educated Canadian Adults
http://www.hslda.ca/cche_research/2009Study.pdf

We've Grown Up and We're Okay
http://www.illinoishouse.org/a05.htm

Welcome to the National Home Education Research Institute!
http://www.nheri.org/

[Lisa1970]

Yes, when my children were younger, I thought it was all about imitating the classroom. Eventually, I learned so much more, like the history of education (so many are trying to imitate the classroom of today, which did not even exist 20 years ago and definitely not 100 years ago). I learned that education does not start Sept 1 of the year your child is 5 by that date. Now that I have teens, I have learned that trying things to force reading and such on to a 3 yr old or 5 yr old just does not work in the long run. I also learned that work ethic and loving to learn will take my children way further than memorizing an endless list of facts they will soon forget and resent.

[accidental_hs'er]

Interesting

I learned about hs'ing when ds was 3 and I was the same. I was thrilled, excited and just craving any and all information I could get about the topic. I am a planner so this just got me completely riled up. I read every book, joined tons of web groups, made real life contacts...did whatever I could to get ready.

Things have changed for me though. I am in my 4th official year and I am probably one of those people that would say wait, relax, you have soooo much time. Why? Not to be rude or not be supportive. I think I immersed myself so much in the theory of hs'ing that I got a little sick of it. The day to day realities of life are not really different from what I expected, I just didn't realize how little I would care about thinking about homeschooling. It is just life. I haven't read a book about homeschooling in over 2 years. I went from buying curriculum we'd need 'someday' to chucking most of it and really taking time before I invest in any hs material. We spend a ton of time with other hs'ers so my life feels completely normal. When I am the minority in a group of schooled kids and their parents, they seem odd to me now, lol.

I don't see this as just a homeschool issue for me. To be honest, now that my youngest is nearly 5, I loathe conversations about diapers, or walking readiness, or potty training. Again, not trying to be insensitive or uncaring, I am just mentally in a whole new place.

I am in awe of a handful of hs'ers who continually give out such amazing and supportive advice for years and years. I feel so busy with activities, so concerned about what my dks are or aren't doing academically speaking and then coping with a whole other host of parenting issues that my years with kids from age 0-3 seem like a walk in the park. I kind of laugh at how concerned I was about developmental stage X, Y or Z when I now have to worry about spelling bees, calculus and writing skills. I was so much more worried about getting things done right those days. Now I am just happy to get things done at all. I am sure when my dks are teens I'll feel the same way about people with younger school-age kids.

One last thought, and this is something I run into more irl than on boards like this, is that I have met so many families of preK kids who may be sort of thinking or hs'ing or just looking for a 'smart playgroup' for their kids and I have developed a wait and see attitude. Wait until your dks are 5 or 6 and see if you are really hs'ing. I've started so many playgroups and been available to so many families these last few years only to have the kids become school age, and well, then go to school.

[Maela]

[heatherdeg]

"Dumbing Us Down" by John Taylor Gatto is a good one about what a classroom actually TEACHES kids (and as a former teacher, all I could do was sit there, nodding as I read). It's excellent background reading for when someone tries to challenge you on the topic.

Also, reading up deschooling yourself. In fact, I think that the title of a recommended book "Educating our children, deschooling ourselves" or something like that. I think I may need that.

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg

In fact, I think that the title of a recommended book "Educating our children, deschooling ourselves" or something like that. I think I may need that.

Homeschooling Our Children Unschooling Ourselves? (by Alison McKee)

To the OP:

When we come to this forum asking questions that veterans think seem too early what really are trying to do is educate ourselves.

I don't think this is lost on those of us with older children. I've seen a ton of book and website recommendations made on these boards.

I think the recommendation to play with your kids and relax comes from knowing how quickly those early years go. It's easy to get engrossed in the idea of future homeschooling, even to the point of buying games/books/activities (that we thought we'd use 5 years down the road) and put less focus on the here and now.

I know when I recommend relaxing, I hope people will look at the child in front of them, what they are interested in currently, the things they are doing right now--starting there and building as they go. Because that's really all that matters. While it's interesting to read theory or to follow someone else's homeschooling blog, there really is no window into the future.

I had a lot of ideas about how I would hs, what it would look like, what my kids would be doing, how we would organize things (and we didn't start until ds1 was in 3rd grade.) Virtually nothing turned out the way I'd planned. That's not a bad thing--but I found I mostly had to take things as they come and make it up as I went along.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by SagMom

Homeschooling Our Children Unschooling Ourselves? (by Alison McKee)

To the OP:

I don't think this is lost on those of us with older children. I've seen a ton of book and website recommendations made on these boards.

I think the recommendation to play with your kids and relax comes from knowing how quickly those early years go. It's easy to get engrossed in the idea of future homeschooling, even to the point of buying games/books/activities (that we thought we'd use 5 years down the road) and put less focus on the here and now.

I know when I recommend relaxing, I hope people will look at the child in front of them, what they are interested in currently, the things they are doing right now--starting there and building as they go. Because that's really all that matters. While it's interesting to read theory or to follow someone else's homeschooling blog, there really is no window into the future.

I had a lot of ideas about how I would hs, what it would look like, what my kids would be doing, how we would organize things (and we didn't start until ds1 was in 3rd grade.) Virtually nothing turned out the way I'd planned. That's not a bad thing--but I found I mostly had to take things as they come and make it up as I went along.

Same here - right down to the way my great plans got replaced with more realistic needs all along the way. It all falls under the old ~Be Here Now~ idea - those first few years fly by in the wink of an eye, and it can actually take awhile to realize they're gone. - Lillian

[SundayCrepes]

Originally Posted by Lillian J

those first few years fly by in the wink of an eye, and it can actually take awhile to realize they're gone. - Lillian

My children are still little, 2 and 4.75. I want to hold onto the magic of this age. Thanks for saying it so brilliantly.

[SundayCrepes]

I understand what the last few posters mean about getting so caught up in the theory that we miss out on time with our little kids. I want to point out, though, that you have to figure out where your philosophies start. As I said earlier, I did research into HS when my son was quite young. I found unschooling and we are on a path. Now that he is approaching school age I can relax because I have a direction. Our path will take its natural twists and turns, but at least I'm not frantically worry about how to teach him.

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes

I understand what the last few posters mean about getting so caught up in the theory that we miss out on time with our little kids. I want to point out, though, that you have to figure out where your philosophies start. As I said earlier, I did research into HS when my son was quite young. I found unschooling and we are on a path. Now that he is approaching school age I can relax because I have a direction. Our path will take its natural twists and turns, but at least I'm not frantically worry about how to teach him.

ITA. I'm also glad that I sought out irl home/unschool groups and started to make connections when DD was only a one year old. She would be starting school in a few short months (Summer here) so instead of losing all her friends as they head off to a different life she has a cohort of homeschooled friends of different ages that aren't going anywhere (not to mention my own network of hs parent friends)

[lach]

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes

I understand what the last few posters mean about getting so caught up in the theory that we miss out on time with our little kids. I want to point out, though, that you have to figure out where your philosophies start. As I said earlier, I did research into HS when my son was quite young. I found unschooling and we are on a path. Now that he is approaching school age I can relax because I have a direction. Our path will take its natural twists and turns, but at least I'm not frantically worry about how to teach him.

I think it's also sorta patronizing and maybe adds some false nostalgia for the business of the early years. I'm there now, and trust me, I have PLENTY of time to both spend lots of time with my kids and read a bunch of books about homeschooling. They're only awake between 10 and 12 hours a day, and I don't actually think that anyone is advocating that I need to spend those entire 10-12 hours sitting on the floor building Duplos or trying to tromp through the forest on a forced nature walk (which my 3yo loathes, and my 18mo who has been walking for less than a month can only last about 5 minutes on before he needs to be carried). The reality is that I promise that I have plenty of time to play with my children, while still giving them plenty of time to play independently (which I think is very good for them), and to sleep, while I pursue my own interests.

[Aeress]

Learning about yourself is important, understanding your needs, understanding your fustrations and finding balance is so important to homeschooling. For us, we are learning and growing together- I am really getting interested in Montessori and offering to my children by setting the environment, but if it doesn't work for one of them, I have to accept that. This is my journey as well.

I also have to note that it seems normal to get caught up and engrossed in research and information because this is education for you as well, you are a learner. Eventually something new will come along and your interest might shift and so will your children's, so enjoy this time. Soak up all the knowledge.

[accidental_hs'er]

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes

I want to point out, though, that you have to figure out where your philosophies start.

Obviously, I can only speak for myself but I obsessed about figuring out my philosophy only to realize that it totally didn't matter. Hs'ing styles (also talking about anecdotal knowledge I have from dozens of the families I know first hand) have been fluid and changed a lot. Early on I wanted to name what I was doing. Now it is too eclectic to be one thing or the other. In fact, I may fall more into one category and not know it at all. And not care either.

[Maela]

This is an interesting thread...

Originally Posted by Greenmama2

ITA. I'm also glad that I sought out irl home/unschool groups and started to make connections when DD was only a one year old. She would be starting school in a few short months (Summer here) so instead of losing all her friends as they head off to a different life she has a cohort of homeschooled friends of different ages that aren't going anywhere (not to mention my own network of hs parent friends)

This is exactly why I'm already looking for HS groups/play groups, other families, and charter schools in the area even though my older is only 3yo.

[Stacey B]

Originally Posted by Maela

This is an interesting thread...


This is exactly why I'm already looking for HS groups/play groups, other families, and charter schools in the area even though my older is only 3yo.

I found this to be invaluable for our family. It is much easier for ds to know a lot of kids who are already homeschooling. One of his favorite people is a 12 yr old girl in our co-op.

In terms of philosophy I understand everything will be constantly changing over the next 14 years, but it is helpful for me to know what has been does by others and how it fits with their lives.

[Lillian J]

Posted today on Home Education Magazine's facebook page:

"You are worried about seeing him spend his early years in doing nothing. What! Is it nothing to be happy? Nothing to skip, play, and run around all day long? Never in his life will he be so busy again." ~Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Emile, 1762. Lillian