Our Own Little Thread :)

[mama9]

I took a tip from mamafish9 to make a thread for myself and DS, so here we are.

Current summary - DS is 7 months old in 5 days time, he's exclusively breast fed (to date) and thriving with his weight. However, it's been a real struggle for us. Right now we are working on an ED for his food sensitivities (salicylates/amines, etc). We have been free of all of the most popular allergens and intolerance foods for months, plus many oddball foods that are seemingly harmless for most babies -hence the sali ED we are on right now.

For background:

I originally posted here on MDC with this thread.
Then I followed up with this thread.
I've been posting on the Salicylate/Amine/Histamine Sensitive Tribe thread and my posts started on page 13 - post number 258.

I'm transferring over to here to pull focus and I intend to post often with updates of our situation, revelations, experiences and trials - all are welcome to chime in with advice and thoughts and thanks so much for reading!
xxx

[mama9]

Eating 3 foods - trialled sushi rice tonight but could be a fail

I don't know if this is or isn't the rice but he's a little more unsettled. I went to feed him as I can hear him stirring from the living room when he needs a dream feed. After feeding, whilst still asleep, he started to itch his stomach, then his eyes, then the back of his neck. That's a lot of itching Could be that rice and I didn't have too much of it, but I am desperate for calories because my milk supply, I suspect, is going down, even though I'm eating a farm-load of lamb and chicken, with the odd pear here and there. I'm talking half a kilo of lamb per day and 4-6 chicken thighs to go with it. I'm not able to make a lot of milk on a pure protein diet it seems. Hmmmmmmm.....

[mamafish9]

You need to keep trying some more carbs and fats. I'd take P5P(active B6) for you, lots of mag, Epsom salts baths for both, and molybdenum for both - get the most allergen free ones you can find and just start them. And then I'd add back in squash or sweet potatoes (not potatoes, those are often reactive for people) and see what happens. That's not the way you'd do it if you had more foods available, but you don't, and you can't keep eating only protein & pears.

Can you get buckwheat, that works well for some people. Definitely try beans, and see what happens.

For the diarrhea, that sounds very much like my DS' reaction while teething - awful acid poops. So you also probably aren't getting a clear read right now on what you can and can't eat. I'd normally say wait until he's done teething to change anything else, but clearly you can't wait. So add the nutrients, and take a gentler approach to the food chemicals diet for now (add back in things on the moderate list).

[mama9]

Hey mamafish, I was just trawling online again for the supps you suggested - I fell asleep at the keyboard last night searching online, hoping to stay awake long enough this time though!

Right, so those poops are probably to do with the teething and it's such an awkward time because it's hard to see what is going on with the food. Yes, I can't continue on pears and meat - I'm going downhill fast. I'm not functioning too well on more levels than milk supply right now and I'm desperate for fat and carbs. Buckwheat went down badly when we last trialled it - and we were off of gluten at the time so I could see more clearly how the reactions were going. I can try the beans. I've got some dried black eye beans here.

I will go through the moderate list but I can't go as slowly as I would like to because of the milk situation. And I'm afraid to supp with Neocate because there are one million things he could react to on it and it could set us back too far - but if I have no choice I guess I will have to use it. Honestly, I really don't think I have enough milk in the boobs. He peed a lot less today too. I know he's got the runs and that could contribute to the lessening of his pees but he's never had two boobs per feed since birth (maybe sometimes during growth spurts) but today he is needing both boobs most times and I am hearing less of the gulps from two boobs that I'm used to hearing when he feeds on one.

[mamafish9]

At this point, I'd add back in anything not on the high sals list that you aren't already suspicious of. Get him back to the old normal, through teething, and then try sorting it out one food chemical/intolerance at a time. EDs aren't sustainable for any length of time, especially when you don't have viable sources of fat and carbs. And if you have something like teething confusing the issue, this isn't the time to try to figure it all out.

For sals, in my experience, veggies (even high sals ones) were better than fruits - fruits are crazy high, and seemed to cause my son more issues. So try carrots, sweet potato, squash - get some carbs that way and hopefully not an awful reaction from your son (keep pushing the mag!).

[mama9]

Right, I think this is a better solution than supping with formula right now judging by his particular issues. I'm making a list of high sals and high amine foods and then I am going to make sure I don't eat low sals/high amine foods, etc, to keep us as safe as possible whilst I ramp up my calories.

Actually, just from that one serving of rice last night, my milk has come in a lot more already.

Regarding the poop situation, it's day 4 and there is no change. Very mucousy and acidic. Thing is, the blood is back although just a few specks. Last time I saw blood was Thursday I think. There is blood only in the jelly like mucousy parts on the diaper that usually comes after his done the explosion of watery poop.

The rash is clearing on his neck and back which is fantastic but starting to appear on his face so I'll keep an eye on that.

I also feel that all of the meat I am eating is contributing to the amine load and balancing out towards lower sals foods may help things.

In general, apart from the teething issues affecting things and the blood which I feel is from the ghee/probiotics, DS is the most 'baseline' that I've ever seen him at.

Fell asleep again last night, so back online to find supps...

Thanks so much mamafish
xxx

p.s. it could be possible that all of his itching last night was due to skipping a salt bath and the residue of the ghee, high sals, in my milk/his system etc didn't get pulled from us into the bath water? - plus we were lower in mag from skipping?

[mamafish9]

Yes, skipping a bath at this stage could easily result in symptoms back quickly. DS needed his oral mag every few hours to keep symptoms at bay initially. In your body, there are immediate mag needs, and then mag stores. Right now, if your son is really deficient, mag baths will only give him enough mag to help with immediate needs, his stores will still be mostly empty. Eventually you'll get those stores filled back up, and then he'll be more stable in between mag doses.

I think your plan is a good one. In our experience with food chemicals, and a child with lots of "imbalances", trying to eat as balanced diet as possible was important (too much protein can cause things like ammonia issues in the body, or amine issues, like you pointed out). With teething and still healing from ghee, I'd just get back to that place where you can make enough milk - I totally agree with you that's a better choice than adding formula in. With the added supps, hopefully that will start to improve some of his food chemical reactions (that can happen even if you are eating foods with those chemicals, it just takes longer to build the stores back up).

[mama9]

Hi mamafish, wow, that's very interesting. I can't wait to get his mag stores sorted out. We had our afternoon bath and he has been incredible - as in the best I have ever seen him. His poos have slowed down too.

Another theory I have is that he is peeing less because before he was peeing like mad, and I think it was due to the high sals diet I was on. I was even rubbing olive oil on my skin after every shower (and on him since birth), to add to my foods. He always peed a ton, much more than what I would consider normal.

I am back on the computer to buy supps and it's like my fourth attempt since you advised me a couple of days ago. I just need to give him his second salt bath today (me included) and I'm good to shop.

Can I ask you if there are any particular types of supps that are more superior in terms of absorption, effectiveness, etc? I know you mentioned methyl B12 (I think you said sublingual is best), and mag glycinate (also ascorbic acid or tapioca source vitamin C (hard to find those here but trying). What about for A, D, K2? And the all important molybdenum?

Another question for you if you don't mind - I am eager to get some calcium too. I know that he didn't tolerate it well in the past and probably wouldn't now but once he is doing okay on this current supp list, I would like to try out some cal and if he doesn't tolerate it, I'll pull it and retry later down the line once the rest is in full swing. What cal have you had a good experience with? I'm not currently eating any calcium at all and haven't done for so many months now. I must be heading toward a calcium collapse!

Thanks so much xxx

[mamafish9]

I used A & D derived from fish oil, and K2 (MK4) - Thorne makes K2 drops. Molybdenum, use what ever you can find.

Calcium, don't worry for now, down the road try nettles or dandelion root, both very gentle natural sources of calcium. My son still can't tolerate calcium supps (but he's fine drinking milk) - something about the supps is really problematic for him, so foods high in calcium seem best. I'd wait until a lot other other stuff seems in a better place though. (I don't know if nettles and dandelion root are high in sals or not). Definitely not the priority, especially if you are mag deficient as well.

And yes, peeing a lot can totally be a sign of sals reaction, so you might just be seeing "normal" amounts of peeing now. It's wonderful how fast your son is showing positive results from the magnesium. I just read that mag deficiency can impact pancreatic enzymes release - and if you don't release enough pancreatic enzymes, you don't digest anything well (fats, carbs, or protein). Which rapidly causes gut issues and food intolerances (ask me how I know!!). So magnesium might be a really big piece for your son.

[mama9]

I'm so excited about how such a simple thing as an Epsom salt bath can change everything for him overnight. It doesn't surprise me that mag is a big player in his issues as for me, well, I depended on it. For a few years, I couldn't get out of bed without tons of it. I wouldn't sleep a wink and would have such bad inflammation throughout my body, migraine, no energy, severe dizzy spells and vertigo, you name it, I had it. I was so in need of it that if I ran out I would near enough have a panic attack lol.

After tonight's bath (and in the bath), he was manically hyperactive! Does this have any significance at all? I can't remember where that thread was about it, I'll put it aside until I order these supps.

Thanks for the tips on the supps. I couldn't drink any herb teas without causing a bad effect on DS, and I found out yesterday that they are high in sals. Would taking lots of mag have a detrimental affect if I have low calcium? I know that the ratios between them are significant and that high cal suppresses low mag but I'm not sure about the other way round.

I wish I could get milk into my son but with the dairy issue, I have no idea when that would be (early days yet). Perhaps further down the road the dairy issue will clear up - who knows. How long did it take for your son to get past his dairy issue (I think he had an intolerance?).

As for the connection with mag and the gut - that's so exciting to know! Throughout all of these issues, I was thinking it was to do with digestion rather than true allergies, but to know that mag is a big player gets my hopes up high.

Thank you so much mamafish - much love to you and your son
xxx

[rhesp1212]

hmmmmm....this is a very interesting thread! I'm wondering if empsom salt baths would help my ds as well. I do remember trying them for a coupld of days a while back and don't remember them helping him....nor if he broke out in a rash worse from it or not. Can they go through some detox issues when they first start it?? I'm wondering if the anti-inflammatory effects of the salts would help my DS too. Do you just get regular empsom salts from the drug store? How much to a bath?

Thanks!
Valerie

[mamafish9]

2c epsom salts in a bath for 20 minutes.

mama9, sometimes the sulfates can make little ones hyper, I forget why though. I'd personally still keep them up, but also try some mag into him directly. For my son, oral mag was far more potent than the baths. Normally I don't suggest giving supps to babies, but in this case I think you have some very good reasons to try giving him mag directly. It's possible your body uses so much it doesn't "share" very well with him via breastmilk.

Really, I wouldn't worry about the calcium right now. If you (or he) is low mag, you don't use calcium correctly anyhow. So fix mag first, then worry about calcium.

And try some P5P as well - it is very effective at helping your body use mag more effectively - it cut my DS' mag needs in half (he still needed a lot, but it was a lot more effective with a little P5P added).

[mama9]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

And try some P5P as well - it is very effective at helping your body use mag more effectively - it cut my DS' mag needs in half (he still needed a lot, but it was a lot more effective with a little P5P added).

Mamafish, What do you think about the Magnesium Ascorbate form of Vitamin C?

In the meantime I will type out my supp shopping list (and supp plan) here in between trying to settle my teething DS to sleep lol!! - I hope you have a moment to check it out.

Thanks so much!

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by mama9

Mamafish, What do you think about the Magnesium Ascorbate form of Vitamin C?

In the meantime I will type out my supp shopping list (and supp plan) here in between trying to settle my teething DS to sleep lol!! - I hope you have a moment to check it out.

Thanks so much!

I think it's corn derived, but any form of C you can get in your son would be worthwhile .

[mama9]

Supp List/Plan

Wow, DS has been screaming and crying. I tried my mineral complex today from BioCare. I don't know what he's reacting to so I will try to stay calm about it until he's past his teething. Today is day 5 of his runny poop which was projectile today.

Okay, I finally got round to making my short list. It's so tough to trial good quality hypoallergenic supps when you're skint. I have 100 quids worth of new supps/probiotics collecting the dust right now because he may have reacted to them - not sure. It's hard enough trialling foods all of the time as I have to abandon so many things that I buy from the store when it all goes wrong. Sorry for blowing off some steam like this but I'm feeling rotten right now (just going to re-settle DS....). It's my DH and I's first wedding anniversary this week and he can't take me out to eat due to my diet. Mum called to remind me about how important it is for a 7 month old to have solid foods and asked me if he's put on any 'meat' on his bones yet because winter is coming A dear friend joked about DS being a skinny baby (I'm sensitive about this can you tell lol!). My lovely DS has just sprouted two razor sharp teeth which I was on cloud nine about, but I'm getting very sore nipples (he has a really dramatically strong pull off which was cute up until now!) and I am rubbish with pumping milk. It's all getting to me right now....sorry again...back to my list:


Vitamin C: Sodium Ascorbate Powder
To take for myself - I'm thinking that it comes easily through breast milk? I can always give DS some directly if needed.

Bluebonnet Chelated Magnesium
To take for myself and to supp DS with directly. I have no idea how much to give him though - perhaps use his stool as an indicator? It's too runny right now to know though.

Thorne Research Basic B Complex
This is for myself as a B vit foundation that I can add-on to with extra B12/B6, etc if/when needed. I'm thinking that this will come through okay in my milk for DS.

BioCare Mineral Complex
I bought this recently. I'm thinking to use it as a foundation as it has mo in it (150ug). I can always add mo if necessary for myself and DS. Not sure how much mo I would need. I get an extra 90mg top up of mag too with this.

Thorne Research Vitamin K2 and D3 Liquid Drops
I would buy them separately but it's too expensive for us right now - I thought this would be a good solution until we can afford (this is 20 instead of 60 bucks and I need D3 anyway). I will have to take more of it to get more of the K2 but I'm guessing it would be okay for now. Thinking to take this for myself.

For Vitamin A, I checked how much is in lamb meat and apparently I am taking tons of it through that right now. I'm going through around 500 grams per day of lamb and I'm dying to cut back already. Probably no point in supping that right now and I can take my K2/D3 drops with the lamb for the absorption. Wish I can add calcium to that mix but I will be patient

Thorne is almost double the price here but I couldn't find any good alternatives. I can always order from the States. iHerb looks great but they have sold out of all of the good stuff on my list and I don't want to wait so long.

Would I need singular supps for P5P, mo and methyl B12 at this stage? When/if I will need them, which order should I go at it and how much for myself/DS?

Thank you so much!
xxxxx

[mama9]

I've resettled poor DS a few times tonight - he is rolling around on the bed crying and itching, and his tummy is rumbling loudly. I'm thinking it may not be the mineral complex I took and more to do with the half a leek I ate today. I had it a few days ago (it's low on the sals list) and he wasn't great that night either, except as usual I didn't know what food was causing the problem. I'll stay off of leeks, retake the supp again tomorrow and see how he gets along.

He couldn't tolerate his salt bath tonight which was a surprise. We were in for 15 min before I had to get him out. He was going mental in there, don't know if it's a combo with the teething, but he was so aggravated and kept on standing up to get out of the water which is unusual for him. I need to get mag in him through supps asap, even if they are yecky blecky nasty tasting glycinate ones!

[mamafish9]

Aww, sweetie Happy Anniversary, and I'm sorry you're having such a rough day.

For the supps (sorry, I have to be quick, my little one's coming up the driveway) - I think your list is great. I'd add oral mag and the B complex (which has some P5P, may be enough) first. See how that goes, then add the minerals, then the others. I hear you on the massive frustrations of spending $$ on expensive supps your babe can't tolerate, I have a drawer full. It will get easier.

For now, the only one I'd try to get directly into your son is mag (just wipe a little on your finger each time you nurse for now). Maybe the minerals down the road as well, see how he's doing. The B's pass beautifully in breastmilk (and taste bleck, so it's a good thing!).

[mama9]

Thank you so much mamafish!!! Running to re-settle DS again xxxxx

[mama9]

Originally Posted by rhesp1212

hmmmmm....this is a very interesting thread! I'm wondering if empsom salt baths would help my ds as well. I do remember trying them for a coupld of days a while back and don't remember them helping him....nor if he broke out in a rash worse from it or not. Can they go through some detox issues when they first start it?? I'm wondering if the anti-inflammatory effects of the salts would help my DS too. Do you just get regular empsom salts from the drug store? How much to a bath?

Thanks!
Valerie

Hi Valerie, did you try the salt bath yet for your DS? xxx

[mama9]

Sulphur??

Okay, I dug around a little online whilst DS is sleeping and I found some interesting info about sulphur foods:

http://livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

The food list there contains not only leek, which I had only half on one yesterday (he was fine until I ate that), but other foods that I have recently been trying out and foods that I X'd from my diet because he seemed to react sharply to them. Sulphur foods (or more accurately 'high thiol foods' if I'm ti go by this article) could definitely be an issue for us.

Foods on that list that we have avoided in the past due to reactions are:
beans
bok choy
broccoli
cabbage
cauliflower
cheese
chocolate
dairy
eggs
garlic
leeks (I know this now!)
lentils
onions
papaya
sauerkraut
shallots
spinach
tumeric
whey

These foods have given us sharp reactions mostly but some not so sharp, such as garlic, onions, eggs we've tried a few recently. But the rest - instant issues!

So I'm sure we have sali issues and I'm suspicious of amine issues. Sulphur/thiols must be an issue. It's interesting it says to take lots of molybdenum too for this. Also it mentions a couple of, I think they are amino acids, not sure:

If you have elevated cysteine and you want to convert some glutathione, take 2:1 weight ratio of glutamine and glycine and your body will do the rest.

So, I've ordered my supps (what they had in stock) and I'll get on it with the mo in any case and see how I go with those sulphur/thiol foods.

Will be reading up on this chunky thread on sulphur
Sulphur Sensitivity