3.5 yo having troubles adjusting to M preschool

[krabigirl]

My 3.5 yo DD started Montessori preschool three weeks ago. She attends three days a week for three hours a day. This is her first preschool experience, but prior to this, she has participated in playgroups, classes, and the Sunday school at our Unitarian church.

She looks forward to going to school every day, and my husband drops her off and says she is very happy at that time. She loves playing with the other kids (this is what she tells me). When I pick her up, she seems happy enough, but nearly every day, her teacher has negative feedback for me, and rarely anything positive to say. Apparently, she has a tough time with transitions, and sometimes becomes defiant (she is strong-willed, and it happens at home, so I am aware of this.) There has been only one day where the teacher said that she had a good day.

Well, on Friday's pickup, the teacher stopped me and said what a bad day my DD had. That she didn't want to sit during circle time (she wanted to lay down), that she resisted some of the day's activities, and so on. The teacher seemed pretty annoyed by the day's events. The previous day had been the sole "good" day.

She also informed me that since DD has been in the class for 3 weeks, that she is now expected to follow the rules. She said she is sure it will get better in time. I left the school very disheartened.

Well, I come home and while changing her clothes, I notice some marks on my DD's underarm area. She said that her teacher gave her "boo boos" while carrying her and putting her on a "rug" because she was crying. I do know that she didn't mean to hurt her, and that my DD can be hard to control when she is having a fit, but this is NOT what I expected from a preschool!

Honestly, i don't know what to do. I think perhaps Montessori schools may be too rigid for her, and maybe she should be in a play-based preschool? She is such a happy girl at home and at playgroup/Sunday school..she is strong-willed, but some kids just are! perhaps her personality type is not suited for Montessori, or maybe this school/teacher just isn't a good fit for us.

I plan to meet with the teacher, and try to figure out how to make this work, but I guess I am looking for advice from others who have known people with kids who didn't adjust well to Montessori, or preschool in general.

[carmel23]

hmmm...

That sounds tough. Not all Montessori schools are created equal. But that sounds odd. Our school is very into not making children do things they do not want to do. Making a child do things seems contrary to Montessori philosophy, to me. It doesn't seem like it would build up a child's self confidence.

Does your daughter follow rules at home easily? My kids are strong willed, and we love our school because it works with that--and uses it to help our kids learn....

[MattBronsil]

What type of transitions are going on during a 3 hour class? The work cycle itself should be about 2.5 - 3 hours....

[sapphire_chan]

To circle time and from circle time? Which would presumably start the day?

Krabigirl, maybe you can start dropping your dd off after the group activity?

[Drummer's Wife]

Circle time is when my 3.5 yr old is having the most problems. He just doesn't want to sit still and participate with the class -- and thus, isn't following directions/being defiant. Their circle time is actually mid-morning, b/c they go to art/PE/music/computer beforhand, and the work cycle is after circle time. A lot of the issues you describe, OP, about your LO are the same as with my DS. I just had a meeting this morning with his teacher and admin about it and to work on a plan to help him.

What is the school suggesting to move forward? One thing our teacher has done is let my DS work quietly in the corner (he loves to play with the farm animals), instead of always having to sit and participate. He still sings along and is listening/aware of what is going on in circle time, but is removed a bit b/c it's overwhelming for him, and he doesn't want to sit with everyone else for the duration. It's not really a long-term solution, but it's helped some days. He also has a difficult time with transitioning. I hate that they are unable to have a 3 hour uninterupted work cycle, but since it's public school and they have to include so many other aspects to the day, they split the work cycle into 1 1/4 hrs in the morning, and 1 3/4 hrs in the afternoon (which my DS is no longer there for - he is half-day now).

ETA: I don't have the physical stuff going on - well, my DS is aggressive at school at times, but the teachers aren't leaving marks on his body. That would be very bothersome to me, that they couldn't guide him to make better choices in a more appropriate way. Montessori school or any other school.

[sillygrl]

Isn't Montessori supposed to be a more child-led learning style? It sounds more like the teacher is not the right fit for your dd, and that happens sometimes.

[GoBecGo]

Just my 2c, but i would be VERY concerned with a preschool teacher who couldn't handle defiance in a THREE year old. COME ON! That has to be something covered in training! I would also be very concerned about leaving marks - my DD throws fits big enough to leave marks on ME, but i still manage to contain her without leaving marks on her. I get that it was non-deliberate, but it still doesn't sit well.

Are there alternative preschools? 3 is just too young for some kids to "follow rules".

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

Just my 2c, but i would be VERY concerned with a preschool teacher who couldn't handle defiance in a THREE year old. COME ON! That has to be something covered in training!

The reverse is true. The child leads and the adult follows. So it's really the adult who is defiant. You have to do sort of a paradigm shift with that concept in Montessori.

With 3 days a week, though, and a shorter work period, it's going to take a lot longer to become normalized. That's hard on both levels.

Matt

[spottiew]

Our circle time is voluntary.... you can participate, you can do other works in a non-disruptive way, you can lie on the floor at any time as long as it does not interfere with the work of others.

Personally, if someone said in front of my child every day how 'badly' their day had gone, I would believe it's just not a good personality match. If it were my kid, he would pick up on the teacher's attitude and play off it and spiral downwards into increased defiance.

On the other hand, 3 weeks is not all that long to adjust- sadly, it can be SUCH a transition for anyone. I know when we looked at Montessori CH's, we sure stayed away from any place that had expectations about rules that just would not have worked for us. Every once in a while we get a sub who is one of those types... always amazing how they all believe they are the 'true Montessori' yet there is such difference. I don't know what you can 'do' though, they probably are pretty set in their ways... maybe just ask for another 2 weeks of leeway.

[momtoS]

My daughter is in a small preschool (we started two mornings a week, three weeks ago) and it is in a school. They have a tonne of fun. They play, go outside, bake, paint, play with playdough, colour, sing, go on nature walks, to name a few......

Before that I toured a Montessori school. It is not the same. They are quite rigid. I learned on the tour that children must demonstrate that they can use the items in an appropiate context before being *allowed* to play with them. Once they acheive that level they can be tested to go on to the next. They really frowned upon imaginative play. The pegs fit into the holes, but certainly don't use the pegs as men and the shape as a boat (you would fail that level). There aren't any *toys* but a cleaning station, a polishing station, folding station, tea party station etc. So....all in all it was forcing 2-3 year olds to learn adult activities.

As soon as the tour was over...I knew that my strong willed, creative, imaginative 3 year old would NOT fit into this school.

Prehaps you can tour other schools and find one that is a better match?

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by momtoS

There aren't any *toys* but a cleaning station, a polishing station, folding station, tea party station etc. So....all in all it was forcing 2-3 year olds to learn adult activities.

Your 2-3 year old doesn't follow you around all day wanting to do everything you do? A game my never in preschool 2 year old came up with today? Wiping everything around the couch with a tissue she found. Her response to me getting out a broom and trying to sweep? "My turn! I do it!" Forcing? Yeah, if it'd be forcing for your kid, then Montessori was a horrible fit, but most kids absolutely adore doing real things with tools sized for them.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by momtoS

Before that I toured a Montessori school. It is not the same. They are quite rigid. I learned on the tour that children must demonstrate that they can use the items in an appropiate context before being *allowed* to play with them. Once they acheive that level they can be tested to go on to the next. They really frowned upon imaginative play. The pegs fit into the holes, but certainly don't use the pegs as men and the shape as a boat (you would fail that level). There aren't any *toys* but a cleaning station, a polishing station, folding station, tea party station etc. So....all in all it was forcing 2-3 year olds to learn adult activities.

Yikes! What an inaccurate concept of the Montessori Method. Glad you got out of there.

[lach]

Yikes, OP. The marks on her arms sound severe. I'm sure that there are cases in preschools where a child gets so out of hand and violent that they do need to be forcibly restrained to the point that there are marks. But for a situation that extreme, I really hope that the parent would be called in for a "very special meeting" with the teacher and the head of the school to discuss the child's extreme behavior and to decide on a plan going forward.

That her behavior on Friday only merited a vague comment to you about following rules and circle time, while apparently requiring brute force on the teacher's part, is a HUGE red flag to me. There are ways to deal with crying children that don't involve holding them down so that you leave marks! I think you DEFINITELY need to schedule a meeting with the head of the school to discuss this incident and find out EXACTLY what happened.

I think that strong willed children can really flourish in a Montessori school. I feel that way about my daughter. She has always known exactly what she wanted, and gone for it. (My son, on the other hand, I sometimes call "surfer dude" because he's always very mellow and calm and goes with the flow no matter what you chuck at him). The freedom to explore and to take personal responsibility that exists in a good Montessori classroom meshes very well with a strong personality, I think. However, based on your description I'm not sure that you are dealing with all that good of a classroom.

I really hope that you get to the bottom of this. I don't care how much of a pill your DD was being (no offense to your DD Just acknowledging that 3yos, and I have one two, do have a special knack for that sometimes!) the only excuse for manhandling her until there are marks is if she was being a danger to herself or the other children or the classroom. And that is not the vibe I got from your story.

Originally Posted by momtoS

My daughter is in a small preschool (we started two mornings a week, three weeks ago) and it is in a school. They have a tonne of fun. They play, go outside, bake, paint, play with playdough, colour, sing, go on nature walks, to name a few......

Before that I toured a Montessori school. It is not the same. They are quite rigid. I learned on the tour that children must demonstrate that they can use the items in an appropiate context before being *allowed* to play with them. Once they acheive that level they can be tested to go on to the next. They really frowned upon imaginative play. The pegs fit into the holes, but certainly don't use the pegs as men and the shape as a boat (you would fail that level). There aren't any *toys* but a cleaning station, a polishing station, folding station, tea party station etc. So....all in all it was forcing 2-3 year olds to learn adult activities.

As soon as the tour was over...I knew that my strong willed, creative, imaginative 3 year old would NOT fit into this school.

Prehaps you can tour other schools and find one that is a better match?

My 3yo is DEFINITELY strong willed, creative, and imaginative... and her teacher has already told me that it's been a battle to get her interested in anything but the practical life works that you mentioned! Apparently the only things she wants to do are make the snacks, wipe the tables, and sweep the floors. I think most kids like mimicking adults at their work. My 18mo already follows me around with the child sized broom we have when I sweep. And he was soooo proud of himself today when I let him pour his own water.

It's definitely strange that your school "passed" or "failed" the kids at their work. That definitely isn't Montessori at all. A good Montessori teacher recognizes when a child has learned all she can from one work and is ready and interested to move on, and introduces it then... there's definitely no testing involved! It's probably a good thing you didn't go with that school. The two Montessori schools I have experience with also do everything you list.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

Yikes! What an inaccurate concept of the Montessori Method. Glad you got out of there.

You mean your students aren't there to clean the classroom for you (against their will)?

[lach]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

You mean your students aren't there to clean the classroom for you (against their will)?

I joke that I'm sending my kids to Montessori so they can learn to clean the house, and then I'm off the hook. Maybe do a nice little flower arrangement for the dining room, too!

When my son was evaluated for EI services, one of the questions was specifically about whether he mimics housework, for example trying to clean up a spill. I thought it was really interesting that this was a real milestone (at least according to EI... they ask about a ton of things). With both of my kids I've been so fascinated by how much pleasure they take in mimicking what I think of as very mundane work. A few weeks ago, DS was playing in the play kitchen, and then he "ate" with a little doll spoon, and then he walked over to the trash can and carefully scraped out the little toy pot. (It was empty this whole time, fwiw). He was just so meticulous about doing it all. I think that capturing this sort of play is such a wonderful aspect of Montessori.

[lach]

And, sorry, one more post from me... I think that circle time can be tough for a lot of kids. My DD went to a 2s program last year so she already knows the circle time deal, but I know that it took her months to get into it last year. Maybe because it was a 2s program, or maybe it was just that school, but if kids didn't want to participate they didn't have to. They just had to play quietly and be respectful that circle time was going on.

And this year, in the Children's House at her new school, I know that a few kids are not doing well with circle time. How do I know this? Because DD is now VERY disdainful of the children who don't sit on the rug! She tells me all about it LOL. It's very cute how she obviously does NOT approve of the kids who don't listen. 3yos are just such black and white thinkers.

So I don't think that it's strange that she doesn't want anything to do with circle time (especially with a teacher who HURTS HER). But I do think it's unacceptable how the school is handling it.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

You mean your students aren't there to clean the classroom for you (against their will)?

We tell them to stay happy while people are watching or they get selected to clean the toilets. It was all in Maria Montessori's original writings in Italian, but they got mistranslated later to say we should respect the child.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

We tell them to stay happy while people are watching or they get selected to clean the toilets. It was all in Maria Montessori's original writings in Italian, but they got mistranslated later to say we should respect the child.

When I worked with toddlers, I remember a local news guy coming to film in my class, and he pulled me aside to ask if we really made the 1-2 yr olds wash their own breakfast dishes. Um, yeah - they love it! And they still ended up in the dishwasher after the work cycle, so it's not like it helped the adults much.

Child labor - that's really what the pedagogy is about.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

Child labor - that's really what the pedagogy is about.

And playing with beads. It's an odd mix.

[momtoS]

It's definitely strange that your school "passed" or "failed" the kids at their work. That definitely isn't Montessori at all. A good Montessori teacher recognizes when a child has learned all she can from one work and is ready and interested to move on, and introduces it then... there's definitely no testing involved! It's probably a good thing you didn't go with that school. The two Montessori schools I have experience with also do everything you list.[/QUOTE]

I understand that children like to help out with adult things...in fact dd2 and I made cookies this morning. She loves helping. BUT.....she also loves playing and being silly and pretending. I do believe that children learn from being silly and playing. So.....the pass or fail and only being allowed to use items in context was a turn off for me.