Anyone else have thrush?

[gradstudentmommy]

So now, in addition to my "too large nipples" and chronic, atypical breast infection that's being treated with antibiotics, I have thrush! I'm trying Diflucan and gentian violet. I'm in soo much pain. I came very close to just calling it quits and weaning. I can't be a very good mommy if I'm in pain and crying all the time. It hurts all the time, not just when DS is eating. I'm very committed to breastfeeding but after going through a year of a chronic infection with DD, I'm not sure I can do it again. It's triggering horrible depression in me.

I tried just pumping my right side (since that's the worst) for 24 hours to give it a rest and that helped a bit. What doesn't help is DS is going through a growth spurt and wants to nurse all.the.time. Ouch. I also listen to books on tape at night to distract me from the pain.

I guess I'm just destined to struggle with breastfeeding pain. It sucks.

Anyone ever struggle with thrush now or previously?

[bri276]

I don't think we have thrush but there's still a ton of pain so I really feel for you. I've sat there and cried in the middle of the night because I wish I could give up. It's not fair, especially when you had such a hard time the first time (I had to ep for dd1's cleft palate, never thought I'd consider doing that again).

[gradstudentmommy]

Thanks Bri. Hugs to you too! I can't imagine eping. What a hassle. You must have been so dedicated.

Any idea what's causing your pain? I wonder if you have the infection I have? It soooo sucks to cry while nursing!

[bri276]

Her latch is awful and nothing, not tthe advice of Jack Newman, an ibclc, a regular lc, and LLL combined is helping. I think/hope it's mostly a small mouth issue that will resolve as she gets bigger. How much bigger, I don't know, I hope I can stick with it long enough to find out.

The fact that dd1 needed 2 surgeries really motivated me to ep. At that time, I barely worked (from home) and had no other kids. Now? It would be close to impossible. But so is this, so I can't win!

A friend told me today actually that she got rid of thrush quickly when she cut out all sugar, bread, pasta, and fruit.

[Lit Chick]

Grapefruit seed extract worked for me when I had thrush with DS1. Treating thrush with GSE

Though, since you are on Difulcan you might not need to do that.
Be sure to wash your towels and bras after each use. A pain, but the yeast can grow there, esp if your bras get a little milky.
When I had thrush I did cut out all sugar and starch for a bit, but it made me crash big time. I probably was not eating enough other foods to make up for it.
The GSE took care of the pain within 24 hours, but then again my pain was due to the thrush and bad latch caused by DS1's mouth pain - he was an OK nurser before we got it.

Hang in there. You can beat it.

[tribord]

Yes, I am just getting over it (fingers crossed). I think I got it b/c I took antibiotics for a nasty finger infection plus my diet sucks PP plus my immune system took a hit from lack of sleep once my mom and MIL left.

Luckily I think I caught it early and the kids didn't seem to have any symptoms so I wasn't in a ton of pain but very emotionally distraught b/c it was like just one more thing to deal with when I had no time or energy. I really wanted to keep things clean and dry so the daily washing of stuff, hanging out stuff in the sun, changing pads every hour, constantly putting stuff on my nipples, trying to leave them to air out when they are dripping milk, ugh....!

My LC prescribed nystatin for the kids and told me to use clotrimizole on my nipples, but after reading online what I did is Jack Newman's candida protocol http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...tion&Itemid=17, used his APNO http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...tion&Itemid=17 and gentian violet http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...tion&Itemid=17. I also did the GSE and took capryl, probiotics, vitamin C, and propolis.

I cleaned up my diet (much less dairy, cut out all sugar, refined stuff
Now that I'm back to my old somewhat crappy diet I hope it doesn't come back.

DD just woke up from nap... got to go. Good luck!

[happyblessedmama]

I've not had it with this baby, but have on more than one occasion with other babies (usually due to them, me, or both of us having antibiotics). I used the nystatin drops, but eventually resorted to gentian violet (should be available OTC from your pharmacy @ a grocery store). Not pretty, stains stuff, but so effective at getting rid of thrush. The last couple times a babe popped up with it, I just went straight for the GV instead of going to the doc for the ineffective stuff.

Remember to sanitize your pumping equipment after each use, plus pacifiers, etc. if you are using them, or else you'll just reinfect yourself...

[BlueIrises]

I went through BFing h*ll with my first that lasted 5 months...I quit every other day the first two weeks as I would just cry my eyes out as I fed him...it was like shards of glass were coining out my nipples...I would have to dig my nails into my the breast he wasn't nursing on to not focus on the pain in the one he was nursing on. I did the whole Nystatin cream on my nips and nystatin drops in his mouth and no major change. Jack Newman reccomends swabbing mout with Nystatin instead of just giving drops every three hours since a mouth can completely regrow all the fungus in that time...so I used a cotton swab and swabbed my son't mouth after every feeding (about 2.5-3hrs) instead of giving the drops 4 times a day as prescribed. I did GSE and GV and vinegar rinses after every feeding...you name it I did it. I started taking a probiotic and I gave my son one too...would open a capsule and would stick some of the powder in his mouth. It was extremely hard for me to cut the sweets although I did try, however, I was ravenously hungry when I was BFing and craved sweets! On top of it I had overactive letdown and oversupply issues...pumping only increased my supply and made matters worse. My LC got me a Rx of APNO and that stuff was a great. Eventually both me and my son were put on Diflucan b/c it wouldn't go away with just me on it alone. I know alot of people and doctors won't Rx diflucan for babies but it helped save my BFing relationship. Around 3m, I went to see some BFing guru in CT, that helped me really bring closure to the pain I wnet through...in addition to Thrush, I also had a bacterial infection on my nips due to all the damage. We also discovered that I had Raynaud's Syndrome which affects your nipples...it makes them have vasospasms which makes BFing really painful. I never knew I had RS but after reading about the symptoms, it all made sense that this condition existed prior to giving birth(cold hands and feet all the time that are painful when cold in the winter...sensitive nipples, showers can be painful to nipples, nipples not a source of pleasure more annoying or uncomfy and can even be painful when hard). Raynaud's Syndrome of the nipples can also be brought upon by trauma to the nipples, ie...bad case of thrush or bacterial infection...when underlying problem is resolved, the RS will subside. I started taking B12 and was RXed nifedipine which is actually a blood pressure medication to help dilate small vessels. I remember one day when my son was about 5mo, I realized I wasn't digging my nails into my breast anymore and was mostly relaxed nursing him. Initial latch was always uncomfy with him (high palate)until he weaned when I was PG with #2, but we had many months of a wonderful BFing relationship. And was able to nurse #2 until he weaned at 15m w/o major issue....just latch discomfort. Thrush is a horrible way to start off motherhood and my heart goes out to you as I know the place you are in.

I highly recommend you seek out the help of a professional beyond your OB/Ped as they usually have little Bfing training. The woman in CT I saw was actually an internist who specialized in BFing issues...maybe there is someone like that near you. Feel free to email me if you need any support. As a new mom, do what you have to do to get through each day, and forgive yourself. Don't feel guilty...I beat myself up over my struggles. My LC would tell me she was here to support me if I wanted it but it was also okay to stop and still be a good mom. If you need to pump for the next two weeks to heal, then do so. You are a good mother no matter how you feed your baby.

I say this as I am about to give birth to my third baby...I wish I had the wisdom of self-forgiveness the first time around.

[gradstudentmommy]

Thanks Blueirises. Sorry to hear about your breastfeeding woes.

I do have vasospasm but it doesn't seem to be associated with pain. And I do see a physician who is a lactation specialist at the University of Wisconsin. She studies breast infections in breastfeeding women. She cultured my milk and found the bacteria I have is resistant to all the antibiotics she tried except for sulfa drugs, which she said she wouldn't prescribe until the baby was 1 month old. I just don't know if I can go through this again. I cried for months and months every time I fed my DD (3) because the infection never went away (though it did get manageable).

My DS will only drink an ounce or so out of the bottle then he gets fussy. But we'll keep trying. I mean, if I give up and have to wean due to pain, he'll have to figure out the bottle so we might as well work on it now with breastmilk.

I cried everytime I fed him last night because it hurt sooo bad. I just want to be the best mom possible and my mental health is really suffering from the chronic pain. It's hard to wrap my head around the fact that weaning might actually be the best option for my family. I'm sure people will judge me but I'm also sure anyone who judges me has never experience this kind of ongoing pain.

Thanks for the support and empathy! It means a lot.

[Lit Chick]

gradstudentmommy - you know, there are some situations where formula is not the worst thing. You have to make the right choice for you and your family, be it BFing for bottle.
Hugs to you!

I'm starting to think about the bottle as well, when I return to work. With DS1, going back meant some PPD and major exhaustion (and thrush), and then they let me work part time for 3 months. This time that's not likely. Even though I have time, I'm starting to think about it... I really do not want to be back in that state, and if that means DS2 gets supplemented (my pump output is pathetic) then perhaps that's what needs to happen. I fought through the physical and mental pain last time, but with two kids now and a less flexible job, I'm not sure I can do it. I will try, but I'm not going to tailspin if it does not work.
Sigh. Hugs.

[gradstudentmommy]

Thanks Litchick.

I agree with you. It's different this time around because I have two children to worry about. Just like there's a place in birth for c-sections under certain circumstances, I think there's a place for formula. I will exhaust every option first but the ongoing pain and disappointment every time an antibiotic fails to work is a lot to handle postpartum.

[Illiana]

I think I have it also. I'm in horrible pain when nursing, my nipples are raw, and ds has the white tongue that you see in all the pics.. I"ve been trying to get in touch with my doc but we're having problems getting each other (they keep connecting me to voice mail).. hopefully they'll call back tomorrow. I had some probiotics so i just started taking that and putting some on ds's tongue. I got some lanolin to put on my nipples also.

I found this site so i'm kinda going off of what they say to do here.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/T083100.asp

[Lit Chick]

Grapefriut seed extract took care of the pain within 24 hours, and we were thrush-free after a month of the protocal here .
Nystatin is junk, IMO. My first ped rxed that, in a SUGAR suspension... sigh. Needless to say it made things worse.

[gradstudentmommy]

Originally Posted by Lit Chick

Grapefriut seed extract took care of the pain within 24 hours, and we were thrush-free after a month of the protocal here .
Nystatin is junk, IMO. My first ped rxed that, in a SUGAR suspension... sigh. Needless to say it made things worse.

I just ordered some GSE from Amazon. I'm afraid to try it though because I have some open wounds on my nipple/aereola. Does it sting?

I've cut out all sugar, fruit and flour too. I'm going back to the specialist today. Sigh.

[Lit Chick]

I don't remember if I had any open sores, but you use it VERY diluted, so I bet it does not sting. Be sure to pick up some distilled water! You'll swab your nipples and the baby's mouth, and I remember it being like a miracle.

[tribord]

I didn't find the GSE to sting. I am still using it on my nipples along with Jack Newman's APNO. Weaning off the capryl and oral GSE. I always take probiotics so I will keep taking those. Trying to keep up a good diet but it is tough.

[Parker'smommy]

ugh...it looks like I have thrush as well....grrrr.

Oh, and my LLL leader told me that oversupply usually happens with thrust because the yeast breeds more milk. So, I'm dealing with that too. That was actually the first symptom. She's been choking on my overactive letdown and I was explaining the symptoms and mentioned that my breasts "tingled" between feedings and we realized that I have thrush. So far, dd doesn't have it. Her mouth doesn't have the patches and she doesn't seem to be in pain. I think I caught it pretty early...just some itching and my nipples are a wierdish orangish red color. They look raw, but they are okay pain wise. Oh, and when she latches there is a bit of pain, but it then goes away. It's mostly itchiness.

Sooooo, I'm doing GSE, taking probiotics, cutting sugar,and applying miconazole 2 times a day. We'll see....

Oh, and the beasty yeasties make you crave sugar...it wants to make more yeast, so cutting out sugar is key from what my LLL leader told me.

Blue Irisis, and Tribord....how did you get the APNO?

And no...the GSE doesn't sting...in fact, I couldn't even taste the 10 drops I put in the 1oz solution I made. So, do I need to wipe it off before bfing? I'll wipe off/clean my breasts of the miconazole ointment but what about the GSE? Oh, and should I swipe my dd's mouth with the GSE mixture just to keep her from getting it or in case she does have it and doesn't have any outward signs??

tia!!!

[Lit Chick]

You do not have to wipe off GSE before BFing. When I had it with #1, DS also had it in his mouth and I swabbed his mouth after feedings as well as my nips.

[tribord]

Originally Posted by Parker'smommy

Blue Irisis, and Tribord....how did you get the APNO?

And no...the GSE doesn't sting...in fact, I couldn't even taste the 10 drops I put in the 1oz solution I made. So, do I need to wipe it off before bfing? I'll wipe off/clean my breasts of the miconazole ointment but what about the GSE? Oh, and should I swipe my dd's mouth with the GSE mixture just to keep her from getting it or in case she does have it and doesn't have any outward signs??

tia!!!

The LC I saw is at the birth center where I had DD so she had one of the midwives write the Rx. You have to make sure you have them send the Rx to a compounding pharmacy b/c the pharmacist has to put it together. B/c Newman has changed what goes into his APNO and no longer recommends putting nystatin in it (which I think he used to do) I made sure that the birth center wrote exactly what to put into it (in one of the links I posted above) as opposed to just writing "Newman's APNO" (although the pharmacist said that if the midwife just sent in an Rx for "Dr. Newman's APNO" he would know exactly how to make it I wouldn't bet that every pharmacist knows what goes into it). You could hopefully still get your midwife or OB or even your regular doctor to write the Rx.

I don't wipe off the GSE rinse. I didn't swab DS's mouth (esp. b/c I used gentian violet so I figured he got treated with that) but I don't think it would hurt. I was also trying to give DD and DS probiotics but it was too much work and I got lazy. They didn't have any symptoms, either.

I'm still using the APNO (my nipples are still a little bit sore... I don't think it is thrush but the ointment is "all-purpose"), rinsing nipples with a GSE or vinegar solution (and rinsing DS's bottom with the same), walking around with my boobs out, and changing nursing pads often although I'm not doing any of those things religiously like I was doing before.

Also, what I found a lot faster than swabbing nipples with the solution is to have it in a peri bottle, lean over the sink, and just squirt them. I get a few drips, but since I'm never wearing nice clothes since they get covered in spit-up anyway it doesn't really matter. Anyway, the solutions are basically just water so I don't think they stain.

[gradstudentmommy]

I'm checking back in. I haven't been online much. How is everyone doing?

I was feeling better but the day after I stopped my Diflucan I started feeling worse. Now it's been over a week off the Diflucan and I'm having lots of burning/stinging on the right side, where I think I had the thrush. I'm still on antibiotics for the breast infection. We have to keep switching them because either they don't work, or they work for a while then stop working. My breastfeeding doctor is at a breastfeeding conference so I guess I have to wait until my appointment Tuesday.

In the meantime I'm going to try to cut our sugar/flour and use the GSE. I don't have distilled water but I have a filter on the sink and a Brita. I'm hoping that will take enough of the stuff out of the water so it doesn't kill the properties of the GSE. I'll eventually get distilled water.

This sucks because I had gotten better. Breastfeeding was a little painful and uncomfortable two weeks ago after treatment but now it's moving back toward excruciating.