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There must be a better way to deal with this, help please?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
OK, along the same lines as another thread about a 6yo not listening... I'm a bit past the part where I have enough patience to keep waiting and explaining though. Here's what happens. DS1 is 5.75, started K this year. He has a tendency to act out physically when frustrated, hungry, tired, whatever. But it's definitely worse these days, summer wasn't so bad.

So yesterday for example, he and ds2 (3.5) were playing in the living room while I'm in and out of there, doing this and that on the first floor, hearing the sometimes nice playing.. and then I hear things going downhill yet AGAIN -with ds1 being too teasy, or squooshing ds2, grabbing stuff from him, etc.) so after a few times trying to stop him I told him to just go out of the room (I send him upstairs a lot for a cool-off period of a few minutes, and he does get calm) or even outside (he loves outside, it's a good happy place for him!). He kept running around and not listening to me. I told him to get his shoes, and go outside. And when I keep trying to talk to him he started throwing things at me. So I took him his shoes and held his legs tightly so I could put them on him (he kept kicking at me) and when they were finally on I took his hand and walked him to the door and once he was going out the door he was happy to do so.

But I hate the forcing part. I try to intervene before things get out of control but he doesn't listen then, and then I can't let him keep throwing things, or hurting people (he hits and kicks me, rarely his brother) when he's so wound up and not listening), so I feel I have no choice but to take his hand and move him where I need him to go, and he often just goes limp so I'm literally dragging him. It's a terrible scene! For what it's worth, I am able to keep an even, I wouldn't say calm, but firm deadpan tone while I speak to him in these situations.

He's well fed in the afternoon, has a good snack at 3pm as soon we get home from getting him from school. He's awake too early in the morning I think, but I don't know what I can do about that - he's usually asleep by 8:30 and many days he's awake by 6am. Not quite enough but he's never been a big sleeper, and he's in bed at 7:30pm, just lies awake for a long time. I do think it's too little sleep though. Still, (as I tell him) that's not an excuse for hitting and kicking and throwing, right?

So, help. I've tried to enforce a rest time after snack when he gets home, but he and his brother want to be together, and he really resists it. So I'd basically have to force that issue too, to get him to stay in his room for a rest time....

Any suggestions for me? Any others dealing with this? There must be a better way. Thanks for reading...
post #2 of 12
When my dd started being away all day at school was when I learned she needs to eat protein for breakfast and not cereal or toast or anything like that. She has pure protein for breakfast, like eggs. She has fruit on the side now that I think of it so not PURE protein, but definitely protein-based. And when she gets home, she has a protein-based snack. You would not believe how big of a difference it makes as far as her behavior and moods go. And she was like you're talking about, just wild and running around and seemingly unable to control herself.

Anyway, this does sound to me like it is probably related to food and being at school all day. To some extent, he will adjust to the long day after doing it a while, but it isn't easy. He could probably use more sleep time, or at least resting time in bed, as well. Can you put a digital clock in his room and tell him he has to stay in his room until like 7:00 or 7:30? And I would keep putting him in bed at 7:30, even if he doesn't go to sleep right away, because the rest time is still helpful.

Also, what kind of snacks do they have at his kindergarten? Do you send it, or does he have whatever people bring? People send in complete garbage for snacks and that could be setting him off too. If he's going much longer than he's used to without food, and then having a snack of "fruit snacks" which are really just candy, he is going to have trouble processing all that sugar on an empty stomach.

Good luck! I know I haven't given any suggestions for the specific behavior problem because I dont' think there's a good solution if he's all hyped up like that. Get him to run off energy or something? Really I think helping him stay out of that wild mood is the best thing, and that's likely a dietary issue.
post #3 of 12
Another vote for the protein and...I just read the book The Explosive Child and it was really good. DD is 5 and also in kindy and her tantrums this summer just wore me down. And time outs felt like they were making things worse all of a sudden, not better. So, Explosive Child basically gives you a road map of how to talk to your child before or while things are going down hill and help them get control of themselves. I've been using the techniques for about 2 weeks and so far it's helping a lot.

In a nutshell, if you have a recurring problem, you can brainstorm with him on how to fix it. "I notice that after school you have a hard time listening to me. What's up with that?" and then keep the conversation up until you have his thoughts on what is happening or how he feels or what he thinks might help.

My DD is more of a meltdown out of nowhere girl, so I've just been saying "Hey, what's happening? How can we fix this?" It's not the instant obedience that I would love, but I'd say it takes about 10 minutes to work things out to both of our satisfaction, and I feel much better about how we're interacting.
post #4 of 12
Is it all day every day K? He probably uses all his resources up at school during the day(being patient, kind, etc) and "lets go" at home KWIM? He also may just be overtired which makes for a short fuse and less willing to comply. Perhaps try laying him down at 7 and he may fall asleep earlier?
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2grrls View Post
Is it all day every day K? He probably uses all his resources up at school during the day(being patient, kind, etc) and "lets go" at home KWIM? He also may just be overtired which makes for a short fuse and less willing to comply. Perhaps try laying him down at 7 and he may fall asleep earlier?
Yes, it's all-day K, every day. It's a long day to "keep it together", you're right. Earlier bedtime is harder since dh doesn't get home much earlier than 7 most days, so we'd lose out on him doing bedtime, having time to read with the kids, see them, etc. I wish he would just sleep later! But, he wakes early, maybe it is enough sleep for him.
As for food - yes, he eats cereal w/milk for breakfast most days. I should get more protein into him. Sometimes I make eggs and he has one bite and says he doesn't like eggs. It's hard to find protein foods he'll eat a lot of. I'll keep trying.

Anyone out there have ideas for how to handle things in the moment... those times when he simply won't listen to my calm attempts to diffuse a situation and I can't think of a way to solve things other than physically and forcefully move him? It's at least once a day and it's getting tiring and so unpleasant for everyone.
post #6 of 12
I just want to say that my little guy is 5 and started full day kindergarten too.
He is having a VERY hard time since the first week. He is exhausted from being stuck in a classroom all day and being told what to do for 6 hours straight.
I am cutting him a huge amount of slack right now. This is not the time to be his boss. Things are going to get out of hand just about every day probably till about January when he adjusts to this new life.
He is taking everything personally, getting angry about things, crying more, yelling more, lieing, having a hard time in general, His appetite and sleep are different.
Having been through this adjustment period with my older one, I know what to expect and just have to be the best parent I can be to him. This isnt a time to get lax and think he'll be able to keep his cool. He cant right now.
Im writing this to you as much as to myself. I am reminding myself daily how important it is for him that I am on top of things to prevent him having an even harder time.
post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by reezley View Post

Anyone out there have ideas for how to handle things in the moment... those times when he simply won't listen to my calm attempts to diffuse a situation and I can't think of a way to solve things other than physically and forcefully move him? It's at least once a day and it's getting tiring and so unpleasant for everyone.
I have amazing success with authoritatively counting 1......2......and I never get to 3 because he stops what he's doing and does what I've asked. The assumption being that at the count of three something happens that he doesn't like, such as losing some thing that we were going to do, or some kind of privilege. But it never comes to that...sometimes I think that the counting just gives him a way to focus. Something to hang his hat on, so to speak.

I feel for your child, and for every other kid of that age who is suddenly adjusting to school. We homeschool and my son is up to midnight every night and sleeps til 10:30 because that is his personal cycle. He gets very creative late at night and starts all his major drawing projects after 10 p.m. (sigh) I can only imagine the level of strife we'd have around here if I had to suddenly start forcing him to go to bed and to get up. Best of luck with that. I agree with the other posters who said they cut their child a lot of slack during the adjustment period.
post #8 of 12
When I was a nanny, the boys that I watched really needed a decompression time after school. As soon as he gets home, I would offer him a healthy snack and then send him for some quiet time, either reading or playing quietly.
post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Thank you, Mom2happy, for that perspective. I will work to give him a bit more slack and not boss him around. I think I generally try to limit my rules to things that are really necessary (and dh thinks he needs MORE rules). What happens is I hear him getting too bossy or physical or frustrated with his little brother (and I know it only gets worse from there) so I go in to the room, and sometimes he just YELLS at me to get ouuutt! You can't beeee in here!!! and he tries to push me out. So I try to say something gently, as I exit, about how I just hear some frustration in here and checking that everyone's figuring it all out..... blah blah blah is probably all he hears anyway. Sigh.

Pathui5, if I could get him to go to his room or wherever to relax, I would. I do try, he really resists it, he loves being with people.

NellieKatz, again I take some comfort in your wisdom. Luckily the sleep cycle for him is easy since he's naturally an early riser. So I get him to bed on schedule because of that, not because of school. (I have never been an early riser and school just did me in - I had to be reminded, begged, dragged, out of bed and still was a zombie. There are stories of me as a preschooler waking up at the kitchen table, my mom having already put me there in front of my breakfast. But I digress!) But still - last night, as they usually do after dinner time, both kids got this creative playing burst with superhero kits and all kinds of good stuff, that looked like it could have gone on forever.... but they also needed to get ready for bed, so I'm left being the un-fun bossy mom. So I'm bossy when things are going badly, AND I'm bossy when things are going well.

I should report, however, that yesterday I served deviled eggs and yogurt for snack after school, and sent the kids outside to play after that, and we had a better afternoon. Let's hope for a repeat today......
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
Can you put a digital clock in his room and tell him he has to stay in his room until like 7:00 or 7:30? And I would keep putting him in bed at 7:30, even if he doesn't go to sleep right away, because the rest time is still helpful.

Also, what kind of snacks do they have at his kindergarten? Do you send it, or does he have whatever people bring? People send in complete garbage for snacks and that could be setting him off too. If he's going much longer than he's used to without food, and then having a snack of "fruit snacks" which are really just candy, he is going to have trouble processing all that sugar on an empty stomach.

Good luck! I know I haven't given any suggestions for the specific behavior problem because I dont' think there's a good solution if he's all hyped up like that. Get him to run off energy or something? Really I think helping him stay out of that wild mood is the best thing, and that's likely a dietary issue.
Well, regarding the clock - we do already have a "rule" where he can go downstairs if it's after 6am. He shares a room with ds2, so he can't stay in bed after he's awake, since he starts whispering to himself and making shifty noises... After 6 we know he's not going back to sleep (we've tried to make him try over the years, but it just doesn't work).

I do pack his snack and lunch. It's not bad stuff, raisins, organic toaster pastry or bar, never "fruit" snacks, but I should try for more protein-packed things, more yogurt or cheese maybe. Lunch always has protein. Preventing the hyped-up behavior is a good goal.!
post #11 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by reezley View Post
Anyone out there have ideas for how to handle things in the moment... those times when he simply won't listen to my calm attempts to diffuse a situation and I can't think of a way to solve things other than physically and forcefully move him? It's at least once a day and it's getting tiring and so unpleasant for everyone.
I agree with other posters on doing what you can to avoid the hyperactivity in the first place. But once you're there one thing that might help is to make sure that when you speak to him you have his attention first. Don't try to talk to him from across the room. If he's that wound up he's probably not even hearing you, and even if he hears he's certainly not processing anything you say. So make sure you're right in front of him, get down to his height level, and make sure you have eye contact. Ask him to look into your eyes, and wait until he does. Once you're sure you have his attention you can go ahead and explain whatever needs to be done.

I hope this doesn't sound overly simplistic, because I know it's much easier to say than it is to do, and if your child is so wild in that moment that you can't get him to pause it might not help at all. But it's worth keeping in mind.
post #12 of 12
My DS is not yet 3, so I have no practical experience with 5 yo's...I took a GD parenting class last year, and the first thing on the list for improving behavior, after food and sleep, that is, was daily filling of the childs emotional cup. I wonder, with full time school, if you and he have a chance, every day to connect, with hugs, cuddles, or just singular focus with playtime? I know days are full and our own cups need tending, and perhaps a five year old may resist your attention, but maybe not. A friend has been struggling for a while with her 10 yo DS, they are not GD at all. She recently told me that she realized she had stopped showing him affection since her 2 yo DD was born. She figured he was a big kid, which he was...but still a kid. So she asked him if he wanted to hug more. They now make sure to hug at least 3 times a day, and she feels it has made a difference.
Much like food or sleep, this idea won't help you in the moment of challenge, but it may help transform those challenging moments. GL!
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