aspergers vs gifted signs in toddler - Page 2

[loraxc]

I know they weren't really saying you have like sports to be gifted and not Aspie...I just found it an odd one to single out. I like yours better:

"If your child enjoys doing something as a group, partly because it is a group, and can participate with their peers in variety of activities they like, whether that be scouts, being in a play, dance class, etc., then you most likely don't have a lot to worry about."

I found the chart just a little off somehow, I guess. I felt like it failed to acknowledge that many gifted non-AS kids are intense, may be socially isolated, may have SPD, can be quirky, etc....and that these things (at least IMO) can be part of their giftedness, as opposed to problems unconnected to it. It's like it split all behaviors into "normal/gifted" and "abnormal/spectrum," and I just don't see it that way.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by loraxc

I know they weren't really saying you have like sports to be gifted and not Aspie...I just found it an odd one to single out. I like yours better:



I found the chart just a little off somehow, I guess. I felt like it failed to acknowledge that many gifted non-AS kids are intense, may be socially isolated, may have SPD, can be quirky, etc....and that these things (at least IMO) can be part of their giftedness, as opposed to problems unconnected to it. It's like it split all behaviors into "normal/gifted" and "abnormal/spectrum," and I just don't see it that way.

I think this is just the problem with diagnosing these kind of "disorders". It's not like a blood test that tells you have diabetes or leukemia or something. It's a collection of behaviors/personality traits that everybody shares and some people have more or less of, some people can work around/deal with more or less easily, and some people really struggle with. Of course it's never going to be black or white, I think it is just a tool to give us an idea of when it starts causing issues that could be helped by therapy/attention, like Linda said.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Fuamami

I think it is just a tool to give us an idea of when it starts causing issues that could be helped by therapy/attention

agreed. I think the check list is pretty good for what it is. But if your child has red flags and you want to figure out what is going on, you don't do that with a check list. You get your child a full neuro-psychology evaluation.

My DD's eval took two full days of testing, included huge piles of paper work and forms for me, and considered the input of her teachers, school social worker, and private counselor. A doctor, who is an expert at dxing sn and 2E kids, reviewed all that stuff and come up with some interesting and helpful insights into what is going on with her.

A check list, no matter how good it is, is just a check list. I don't think parents should try to dx their children with checklist from the internet.

[Kristine233]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Team sports require a combination of social interaction and physical coordination that is tough (or impossible) for aspies.

I literally snorted with laughter when I was reading your comments on this, because its so true! I'm a sport-dunce... ubber un-coordinated and had absolutely no social skills in that area when I was growing up. 2 of my kids are really into sports and my youngest DD is just not. She is currently in the process of getting evaluated. When we tried soccer with her she sat down on the field and just watched, then stood in the field staring at the sky while kids ran around her chasing the ball. When the coach asked "Mackie, what are you doing?" she responded with a lot of dramatic enthusiasm "These birds, you just wouldn't believe it!" Funniest dang response I've ever heard from a kid mid sporting event. LMAO. Yeah, team sports just aren't her thing. Hilarious looks we'd get when other parents would ask which child is ours and we'd point to the one aimlessly wandering in the field, sitting in front of the goal or staring at the sky. she's a hoot!

(although my Autistic/Asperger's son didn't like sports until he developed some basic social coping skills and he has to be closely monitored for over-stimulation and meltdowns.)

[ellemenope]

DD just turned 27 months. We have already gone the pediatrician route. Everything seems to fall into the catergory of typical toddler to slightly quirky as of right now. We kind of just have to wait and see if she grows out of some of them. The most troublesome are the feeding issues and anxiety. We are in the process of getting a new pediatrician and will press these items again soon. I have read the HSC and skimmed out-of-sinc, but they seemed geared for older kids. I could only glean a few things that were practical at this point.

Here are our little things. DD...

-seems to relish memorizing words, learning new classifications
-learns quickly and effortlessly or not at all
-is extremely picky, eats very little
-will not eat fruit
-chews and spits out 90% meat, veggies
-picks apart food meant to go together, doesn't like mixed food
-hums while she eats
-hates brushing hair/teeth, having a damp sleeve
-cannot stand having a stuffed nose or slight sniffle
-is extremely difficult to get to fall asleep
-gets overstimulated in social situations easily and shuts down, gets anxious
-is hypersensitive to correction
-loves rules, corrects others
-is prone to emotional meltdowns, exhibits guilt and shame
-uses a lot of scripting
-is very litteral
-does not sound like her age at all
-has average to below average fine motor skills which causes huge frustrations
-gets very distracted/obsessive by little things out in the world (gum on pavement)

But she...

-is not rigid
-uses advanced syntax, large vocab, and speaks fast and fluent
-is super-coordinated, cautious
-has a huge imagination
-never tantrums, is easily reasoned with
-is very affectionate, makes great eye contact, empathetic to an extreme
-is almost off the curve, but she has a curve going for her. She's growing

She has actually gotten much better on the playground in the past few months. She does appear less anxious and more relaxed out in public these days. Many things have come up and quickly disapeared. They were just odd phases. Don't ever discount odd phases. I think a lot of it does stem from our perception of her when we don't take asynchronous development into account. Also, she is just a sensitive girl, and there is nothing wrong with that. (to an extent)

Asperger's cannot be dx'ed that young because all the traits of Aspergers occur in typically developing toddlers!

Thanks! That is exactly what our doctor said, (although less succinctly.)

ETA: Oh, I feel a little emotional writing all of this down. This is my baby, you know? I don't want her any other way. We just want her happy.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Kristine233

When the coach asked "Mackie, what are you doing?" she responded with a lot of dramatic enthusiasm "These birds, you just wouldn't believe it!" Funniest dang response I've ever heard from a kid mid sporting event. LMAO.

We tried my aspie in soccer at age 6 with a very mellow homeschool group based program. She freaked out. She ended up throwing her arms around my neck, holding on for dear life and said,

"But if they ALL want to kick the ball, why don't they all get their own balls?"

There was really no explaining to her that it is FUN for a bunch of people to try to kick the same ball. Really not her idea of fun.

The only team she's ever been on was swim team, which was PERFECT for her. Great for her sensory issues, you get your own space, you do the same thing over and over, etc.

Originally Posted by ellemenope

DD just turned 27 months. We have already gone the pediatrician route. Everything seems to fall into the catergory of typical toddler to slightly quirky as of right now.
....
ETA: Oh, I feel a little emotional writing all of this down. This is my baby, you know? I don't want her any other way. We just want her happy.

It IS emotional!

Another book you might like is:
Quirky Kids: Understanding and Helping Your Child Who Doesn't Fit in - When to Worry and When NO to Worry by Klass.

It takes about sensory issues, aspergers, nonverbal learning disability, etc. It has better information about the kind of specialist and evaluations than I've seen anywhere else, and it addresses the issues of kids at different stages of development. Very nice book, very reassuring.

[loraxc]

Honestly, the story about the toddler looking at the birds or the "Why don't they get their own balls?" could be my DD (only she wouldn't freak out--she would just be uninterested). However, she enjoys dance class and participates in pretty complex drama productions at school. She just isn't a sporty kid (although, interestingly, she does love swimming). I'm not at all sporty either, so I guess it seems really normal to me. She also is not particularly competitive, especially if she has to be physically aggressive in any way. She is not that coordinated, but I'd say she's on the low end of average--learned to swim competently at 6, still working on riding w/o training wheels but is almost there. It takes her longer, but she picks it up eventually.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

For a kid who is truly on the spectrum, normal life is a struggle. Things that others easily do and can handle just fine are huge deals. It really doesn't matter how high that IQ is, functioning is difficult. Helping the child overcome their challenges -- just so they can be some what happy and live their life in ways they want -- is a priority.

This is very true-- my niece, for example, was very clearly highly intelligent but we could not impart to her the need to, say, be fully dressed in warm clothing before going outdoors into the snow. Her understanding of the world has always been very difficult in ways that make it hard for her to function. She was nine years old before I managed to make her understand that she couldn't run out to hug me before I had finished parking the car, and at ten she still isn't allowed to walk home from school by herself because while she remembers that you're supposed to look both ways before crossing the street she doesn't remember *why*.

I wanted to correct something, though: While a definitive diagnosis isn't always possible at 18 months, it is very possible to have a probationary diagnosis of ASD and in some cases, children can be diagnosed before they are two. It usually isn't relevant for services before a child is three (services are offered based on developmental milestones rather than formal diagnoses) so most people don't worry about it before then, but it is possible to have an accurate diagnosis of ASD at a remarkably early age.

[Lollybrat]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

I wanted to correct something, though: While a definitive diagnosis isn't always possible at 18 months, it is very possible to have a probationary diagnosis of ASD and in some cases, children can be diagnosed before they are two. It usually isn't relevant for services before a child is three (services are offered based on developmental milestones rather than formal diagnoses) so most people don't worry about it before then, but it is possible to have an accurate diagnosis of ASD at a remarkably early age.

This is true for Autistic Disorder and for PDD-NOS (which is a catch-all diagnosis anyway). But Aspergers specifically cannot be diagnosed that young. The DSM sets three years old as the minimum age for onset for Aspergers symptoms and many doctors will not diagnose it until elementary school age. Of course, there are sometimes doctors who go against the DSM and will diagnsose Aspergers in a two year old, which is simply ridiculous.

For some reason many people seem to think that High IQ (advanced/gifted) plus ASD automatically equals Aspergers, but that just isn't true. An individual can have High IQ and Autistic Disorder or PDD-NOS.

[Linda on the move]

Personally, I don't think Asperger's should be dxed until 6 or 7.

My DD's dx when she was younger was PDD-NOS.

Classic autism can be dx'ed quite young.

The higher functioning a child is, the more difficult it is to tell what is really going on with them when they are little.

And dx's are funny things. No one can really tell you what it MEANS for your child, how their life will turn out. Having a special needs child is making peace with the not knowing.

[LynnS6]

I also wanted to mention that some kids are just 'late bloomers' socially speaking. That's one of the reasons that it's hard to diagnose Aspergers Syndrome in some kids until they're 8 or 9. If I go through the checklist posted, ds has a couple of the characteristics of AS for memory/attention, none for language, a couple for the social/emotional, a few of the behavior, and 2 of the 3 motor skills characteristics.

2 years ago, I would have said that he had many more of the characteristics. He was very late to develop conversational skills with people outside the family (though not inside the family), and he's quite reserved emotionally. He was late to develop emotional awareness and the ability to identify emotions. He was late to develop interest in group activities.

For him, it's a combination of his sensory issues and introverted personality. After he learned to regulate sensory input a little better (thanks to OT) and simply matured more, he's been able to acquire these skills.

But my point is that there are many things going on: developmental, sometimes a bit of delay and then disorder. That's why reading lists of characteristics is a bit dangerous. Yes, people with AS are very literal, but then so are young children. The difference is that individuals with AS don't outgrow it naturally.

Originally Posted by ellemenope

The most troublesome are the feeding issues and anxiety. We are in the process of getting a new pediatrician and will press these items again soon. I have read the HSC and skimmed out-of-sinc, but they seemed geared for older kids. I could only glean a few things that were practical at this point.

My favorite book for sensory issues is: Sensational Kids. I find it's more practical than the Out of Sync Child. Another one you might look at is called 'Just Take a Bite' is for kids with feeding issues. It sounds like your dd might well have some sensory issues and it will take some time to figure out of she outgrows them or needs a bit of help.

[carmel23]

Isn't Asperger's folded into the ASD in the new DSM?

I think it is very much a spectrum. I've accepted that with some kids, they are sometimes on and sometimes off of this spectrum. We happen to have a lot of friends in the ASD community, and I feel a great affinity towards this community. We have a lot in common, although my kid has never been formally diagnosed. He is like a hair over the line on the neurotypical side.

Some days I wish I had a better label then the G word, but then not much is certain in life, right?

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by carmel23

Isn't Asperger's folded into the ASD in the new DSM?

It is. As I understand it, Asperger's has always been considered on the autism spectrum. But then that's the whole point of a spectrum. Asperger's is close to the boundary between typical and atypical. Classical Autism is not.

I've got a kid who's close to the boundary between typical and atypical, it's just that he falls on the typical side. I doubted that for awhile, but the older he gets, the more I see that his 'deficits' were developmental. He was just a late bloomer for some of this stuff.

His cousin, on the other hand, falls on the other side (Asperger's). It's hard for my parents to see that my nephew doesn't 'just' need to grow up. He needs more intense help understanding the social stuff that my son is learning with just a little help.

Originally Posted by carmel23

He is like a hair over the line on the neurotypical side.

Some days I wish I had a better label then the G word, but then not much is certain in life, right?

I understand! That's how I feel about my kid too. He's 'gifted', but it's more than that. And his differences aren't just his giftedness, because he's not as gifted as some of the kids I read about here. Moderately gifted, yes. Profoundly? No.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by Kristine233

When the coach asked "Mackie, what are you doing?" she responded with a lot of dramatic enthusiasm "These birds, you just wouldn't believe it!" Funniest dang response I've ever heard from a kid mid sporting event. LMAO.

Your daughter isn't called Luna Lovegood by any chance?

"But if they ALL want to kick the ball, why don't they all get their own balls?"

There was really no explaining to her that it is FUN for a bunch of people to try to kick the same ball. Really not her idea of fun.

The only team she's ever been on was swim team, which was PERFECT for her. Great for her sensory issues, you get your own space, you do the same thing over and over, etc.

When Ds had soccer rules explained to him on occasion of the World Cup and I said tentatively "you can start soccer practice when you are a little older...?" (socially, if you are a male growing up in Europe it is such a big deal being able to join in a soccer game) he categorically refused! Much too complicated for him he insisted, with someone there specifically to make sure that NO ball enters the goal?!

Yeah, some NT kids just aren't cut out for teamsports. His father enjoyed biking and skiing and I imagine he'll like those too. I loved rowing (we live on a river but I just don't have the time) which I think is a good option for those kids when they are older. I am excited that swim class (officially water habituation but we'll sure sell it as swim class) will start soon and we hope to try him on skis this season, yay!

[loraxc]

I've got a kid who's close to the boundary between typical and atypical, it's just that he falls on the typical side. I doubted that for awhile, but the older he gets, the more I see that his 'deficits' were developmental. He was just a late bloomer for some of this stuff.

Yes, similar for us. DD is just--well, she's asynchronous, no question.

I think it is very much a spectrum. I've accepted that with some kids, they are sometimes on and sometimes off of this spectrum.

DD has certainly gone in and out of looking "spectrumy."

I guess it goes back to something I've been saying for a while, which is that I really think our understanding of the ASD-NT spectrum is completely in its infancy.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by dachshund mom

Thanks, you've made me feel better. I'm not going to worry about it then because I guess it isn't something that needs early treatment if she does/will have it. I didn't mean any offense with the no emotion comment. It was on a lists of traits on some random non medical site. She rarely has any meltdowns unless very tired though.

I went back to the thread over there and it really went down hill after the autism comments and got shut down. I've learned my lesson to stay away from those other boards. Come back over here where people are not out to bring each other down all the time.

Just wanted to flag this - if a child does have autism, early(ier) intervention is important.

That said, I agree with other posters and it doesn't sound like there are real red flags with your dd at this point .