Not teaching the standard toddler things... (update #42)

[physmom]

am i the only one who doesn't do this? It seems like every other mom I know has a list of standard things you're are supposed to show your toddler. Stuff like:

-how to high five
-the ABC song
-Twinkle Twinkle little star
-So big
-how to say their age when asked (or at least hold up the right number of fingers)


I know there's more that I'm not thinking of but my brain is sort of dead at the moment. Anyways, I've never really concerned myself about these things. We do sing songs with DD, play tons of games, etc. She's definitely not deprived! I actually never even though of teacher her the colors until she was almost 18 months and then I pointed them out to her and she got them right away but it just didn't seem necessary before that.

But I know family members are always concerned about these things. They'll ask if DD can do XYZ and I just sort of shrug because we never even showed her that. Most of the songs she knows and can sing with are not common ones (she likes signing time songs, basically anything with a lot of signing with it!). I know it's probably not a big deal but it's been awkward at times when people want to give her a high five or shake her hand and she looks at them like they are crazy. Do I really need to make a conscious effort to show DD these things?

ETA: I think some people are getting confused about the intention of my post so PLEASE read post #42 where I try to clarify things a bit. Thanks!

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by physmom

am i the only one who doesn't do this? It seems like every other mom I know has a list of standard things you're are supposed to show your toddler. Stuff like:

-how to high five
-the ABC song
-Twinkle Twinkle little star
-So big
-how to say their age when asked (or at least hold up the right number of fingers)


I know there's more that I'm not thinking of but my brain is sort of dead at the moment. Anyways, I've never really concerned myself about these things. We do sing songs with DD, play tons of games, etc. She's definitely not deprived! I actually never even though of teacher her the colors until she was almost 18 months and then I pointed them out to her and she got them right away but it just didn't seem necessary before that.

But I know family members are always concerned about these things. They'll ask if DD can do XYZ and I just sort of shrug because we never even showed her that. Most of the songs she knows and can sing with are not common ones (she likes signing time songs, basically anything with a lot of signing with it!). I know it's probably not a big deal but it's been awkward at times when people want to give her a high five or shake her hand and she looks at them like they are crazy. Do I really need to make a conscious effort to show DD these things?

I thought you were going to ask about things like learning the ABCs, learning to count etc...that stuff people do in prep for school.

There is absolutely no reason for a child to know how to give a high 5 or do "so big," or know Twinkle Twinkle. I do think the ABC song and holding up fingers to show age are part of learning the alphabet and learning to count, but they aren't exactly a necessary step either.

However, I don't think most parents make a consious effort to make sure their child knows these things either. I think for most parents, these are the types of things they like to do with kids. I think they are things that they teach kids for the fun of it, not because they feel it's for some reason necessary. Doing a high 5 with a two year old is cute. I don't think it's some sort of milestone or something kids have to know by any means.

[carmel23]

We teach letter sounds, not names first. So my daughter (3.5) can't sing the ABC song, but can read words like CAT, DOG, MAMA, STAR, etc.

[Baby_Cakes]

IME, I haven't really taught DD anything. She picks up on these things by herself. I never sat down and taught her shapes, letters, colors, or anything, but just in conversation and through play, I guess she learned it all.

[LionessMom]

Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes

IME, I haven't really taught DD anything. She picks up on these things by herself. I never sat down and taught her shapes, letters, colors, or anything, but just in conversation and through play, I guess she learned it all.

[physmom]

Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes

IME, I haven't really taught DD anything. She picks up on these things by herself. I never sat down and taught her shapes, letters, colors, or anything, but just in conversation and through play, I guess she learned it all.

Hmm... that's not quite what I mean. For my example with the colors I never mentioned the color of anything and then one day I realized I should just mention "oh, that's a blue ball" or something like that and she picked up on it. But with the shapes, I never really think about saying anything similar. DD actually know her letters already (she's specifically asked about them). But it's more the standard stuff like the ABC song rather than. the letters themselves. I just seems everybody wants to sing this with her and I find the song kind of silly. We have done this song with her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlMPQ-Lr2_Y simply because we were doing finger spelling for awhile and she'll sing that one but the standard one she has no clue about.

However the grandparents are always so concerned about this. When we go there they're constantly teaching her these little tricks and even DH complains that we never "taught" her to say her age (it just never comes up so she has no exposure to holding up how many fingers corresponds to her age). I guess, for me it feels sort of like training a puppy to do tricks? That sounds a lot meaner than I want it to and I definitely don't mind when other parents do it with their kids but I guess I'm getting annoyed that I should have to teach her these things (maybe a better word is expose her to them than teaching her directly because I don't advocate teaching to young children).

This all sort of came up because lately now that she's more verbal people will talk to her and ask her to do some of these things (ask her age, give a high five, do so big, etc). Granted, I live in a super-competitive part of the country and I've definitely gotten the vibe that some people are testing her intelligence with these things (one lady in particular who even felt the need to comment on the fact that she couldn't do one of these things and felt the need to interrogate me about her milestones). It's just weird to me there there's importance laid on these things because she can count but couldn't answer the age question.

Carmel- yeah, that's like with us. If she asks about letters we'll tell her the name but also how to use it. It just seems more important to me than the order etc.

happysmileylady- yeah, I agree. I mean more expose than teach.

[ASusan]

She's a little young to be saying her age, isn't she? DS could do it when he was 2.5, and even then, he was a little uneven about it. I don't recall teaching him directly, but maybe we did?

Many of the things you mention allow a young child to have some social interaction with adults (and maybe children). An adult likes to give a high five or ask how old, and being able to respond allows the child a way to interact.

Did we teach all those things, directly? Not all, and some he learned through daycare. And we did teach him other things (he can belt out Oompa Loompa and Earth, Wind, and Fire's I'll Write a Song For You), but not "I'm a little Teapot" or very many other nursery rhymes.

[redvlagrl]

What is "so big"? I'm obviously not teaching it either. DD was taught high fives at daycare (3 days a week) so she knows that. We tend to sing other songs than Twinkle, though DD has heard it.

I wouldn't worry about it, though I do try and teach her things that are important to learn - colours, shapes, counting etc. Sounds like you do the same.

[mommy_to_2angels]

I haven't been very proactive about teaching my son these things either. But he is also only 16 months. He knows names, but not letters necessarily. I mean, he watches and listens while his sister does her homework. (5 year olds in Kindergarten with homework....5 days a week...ridiculous in my opinion) So I imagine he will pick them up. But other than that he doesn't talk much. He makes noises along with music, but not words. It's pretty funny though.

While I do nursery rhymes with him and the kids songs, he prefers regular music. Hehe, I get a kick out of him headbanging and "singing along" with Tool and Metallica. He's a more active baby than intellectual. My daughter was the intellectual one. I sit with him and we play blocks and shapes, because he has his little shapes block (you know, the one that you put the shapes through the right hole) and he holds it up, I name it and he finds the hole.

But as far as consciously doing it? Not at all. That is just me playing with him.

[thehighernest]

I think I know what you mean.

We play music for DS (also 18 months) all the time, but I never thought of teaching him Twinkle, Twinkle until I saw my friend's DS singing it. Then I was all like, should I be teaching him these songs, too? He barely speaks, so I doubt he'd sing a song anyway!

This same boy knows all the letters, can read sight words, etc., and I know his mom works with him on these things quite often. I shouldn't compare I know, but it makes me wonder if 1. this other boy is gifted and picks up these things more quickly or 2. they work with him on these things all the time and then the more important question for me that I'm always torn about is: does it matter? Should I be making more of an effort to teach these things outright?

Part of me thinks, no, he's not even 2! Let him just play and soak up what's around him. Another part things, OMG, am I doing him a disservice by not teaching him more things?

I don't know what the right answer is. I guess we do more of the exposure route? We do have books with letters and numbers in them that we enjoy reading together. DS can pick out some #s from our having read these books, so I guess we do outright teach a little? And we have shape puzzles and speak out their names while we're working on them. But we're not sitting out with flash cards hoping he'll learn all these things. I just don't know.

[no5no5]

We never exposed DD to any of those things deliberately, but they came up anyway. The exception is "so big," which I think is regional because it was definitely not done where/when I was a kid. She knew every song I knew very early on, because she always loved to hear me sing, and I have a limited repertoire. She learned to high five because that is something DH & I do regularly. She learned her age because it came up in conversation regularly (particularly when she'd want to do things that were age-inappropriate).

I guess I don't really see what the big deal is about any of these things, except that I think it's a bit strange that a child's age isn't something that comes up in conversation regularly. But then I'm sure that there are things that DD doesn't know that other people think is strange.

What I would say, though, is that knowing these specific things can help once she's old enough to participate in things like library storytimes or other little-kid classes/meetings. Different regions have different traditions (we've lived in 3 different regions of the US since DD was born), but knowing the ones that are specific to the area you are in can help your child feel comfortable in a group of other kids who know the same rhymes/songs. Eventually.

Oh, also, FWIW, DD would never have demonstrated any of these skills in front of strangers, or anyone outside the immediate family, when she was a toddler. We never got any weirdness about it, so maybe the reaction you've had, physmom, is just a quirk of your community.

[ASusan]

Another comment, similar to PP above, is that DS would not (does not) show off for people. He won't answer when "quizzed" even when I know he knows the answer. He just won't perform.

Can your parents teach that stuff, if it's important? My dad taught DS how to play hide-and-seek. It's a fun thing they share when grandpa visits.

[Thalia the Muse]

Songs like "Twinkle, Twinkle" are just part of our culture of childhood. It's pretty, everyone knows it, most of us learned it when WE were tiny. There are lots of things we do, that are fun for little kids to do - blowing kisses, waving bye-bye, high-fives, peek-a-boo, certain songs and rhymes. You don't need them to grow up and have a full, rich life, but they're fun and most of us were taught them as toddlers (except high-fives -- that's a newer thing), so we just naturally pass them on.

It's not a drilling/forcing them to give up their childhood/competitive thing. Little kids love to sing, and most of the early-childhood songs are easy to master and sing back. These are just fun ways for adults and young children to interact.

[serenbat]

This same boy knows all the letters, can read sight words, etc., and I know his mom works with him on these things quite often. I shouldn't compare I know, but it makes me wonder if 1. this other boy is gifted and picks up these things more quickly or 2. they work with him on these things all the time and then the more important question for me that I'm always torn about is: does it matter? Should I be making more of an effort to teach these things outright?

depends on what you want in the end?
I know a five year old that was not "taught" but his parents wanted a certain Kindy, he spent his summer having to be in "summer-school" to be allowed into first grade.
His mother learned by not being drilled (assumed her son was the same!) and her son needs "to be drilled" to be even close to the level with his peers, many started at this young age. More and more parents WANT this, it is hard if you do not and expect suddenly a few years from now to be on the same level, some can do it, others can not and really struggle like the child I know. They refused to hold him back (that is a whole-nother thing!!!)

not saying right or wrong here

I personally had a problem because we don't do "high-fives" or even know who Elmo is in our home--we has a dentist check-up and the "lovely" woman could not grasp that my bright 2 year old would not "high-five" her or hug a red thing!!

[crunchy_mommy]

I think I get what you mean. I had no clue that most kids learn to high-five, but someone (I don't remember who, may have been the grandparents?) ended up showing him how to do it. "So big" is in one of our nursery rhyme books... so is Twinkle Twinkle... we have hundreds of books & I got them at thrift stores, free, etc. (vs. carefully selecting them) so lots of those kind of things come up unexpectetdly while we're reading. He plays ABC Zoo online once every week or two (the only computer game we allow) and he learned the song from that, they play it at the end. He started learning colors from the screen turning blue when I shut down my laptop, and then started asking about other colors. So I guess a lot of these things just come up. I definitely never intentionally taught them, it just happened, and that's probably what happens with most kids (more so, I would imagine if they watch a lot of TV or are in a 'school' type daycare or go to lots of story hours etc.) But it does seem like some people teach their kids 'tricks' which I do find strange but I think they're just trying to encourage interaction. Sometimes I feel like I'm 10 steps behind DS... Like I never thought to get him a shape sorter, and my mom happened to get him one when he was 18mos, and within a few days he could do all ~16 shapes and it's one of his favorite toys. He doesn't know how to say his age but he knows "one minute" or "one more book" or "two screws" etc. so he could probably do it if I showed him (though I don't see the point).
It sounds like you need to find some new people to hang around with I haven't really had anyone try to 'test' DS or interrogate me about his milestones etc. That sounds kind of stressful & annoying!!!

[EdnaMarie]

We do tons of songs and rhymes because my children love them. They also love to high-five. They like to aim and hit something, LOL!

"He barely speaks, so I doubt he'd sing a song anyway!"

My child has been humming the tunes of familiar songs--they're easier to hum than complex, longer songs--since one year. Some kids might not like it, but some do. DD1 was bigger on the hand motions (still is, actually LOL!).

-how to say their age when asked (or at least hold up the right number of fingers)

I think of that as a parlour trick. My older daughter uses her fingers as a counting tool, so she does that, but at two, she could only count to two. To her, anything more than one was two, so the fingers didn't help much.

I do the letter sounds over the alphabet, but I still sing them the alphabet, for lack of a better song. At least I know all the words.

I don't think anything you've described is a milestone.

[EdnaMarie]

Oh, and what is "so big"?

[Girlprof]

I've also never had anyone test either of my children on any of this stuff. But we were at a big family party over the weekend and DD definitely got asked for lots of high fives and also how old she was. I don't think these are particularly important milestones but they are excellent, I dunno, courtesy-stones. Giving high fives is a great way for little kids to greet and say farewell to people they might not want to hug and kiss. It's sort of the kid version of shaking hands. Not that they have to do it, of course, but it's nice if they can manage it.

These relatives know my daughter's name, but some of them were meeting her for the first time. She's pretty verbal for 2.5, but she can't tell a stranger something like "My best friend's name is Sammy, I love reading books, I've just started dance class, but I'm a bit nervous about it. I'm so excited that we got new kittens!" She can often tell them her age, though, and this is a satisfying interaction for both parties.

A slightly younger child might not manage the high five and the age, but "so big!" can fill the same need: A culturally-standardized way for adults and children who don't know each other to have an initial interaction that they both understand and enjoy.

[Thalia the Muse]

Oh, and what is "so big"?

It's a game to play with an older baby or toddler -- a fun interaction before they're very verbal. You say "How big is [kid's name]?" then throw your arms up in the air and say "SOOOOO big!" usually after a few repititions the baby will learn to throw his/her arms up on the sooooo big part (and giggle his/her head off).

I really think most tiny kids WANT to learn forms of social interaction. High-fives, holding up fingers, waving blowing kisses, so big, oops, trying to feed their crackers to other people, peek-a-boo, "what does the kitty say?" ... they're all ways to connect and to learn the rituals of give and take with others, that can make even very young toddlers feel included and competent. It's weird to me that some people seem to see it as pushing or drilling or somehow polluting the waters of childhood.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by Thalia the Muse

Songs like "Twinkle, Twinkle" are just part of our culture of childhood. It's pretty, everyone knows it, most of us learned it when WE were tiny. There are lots of things we do, that are fun for little kids to do - blowing kisses, waving bye-bye, high-fives, peek-a-boo, certain songs and rhymes. You don't need them to grow up and have a full, rich life, but they're fun and most of us were taught them as toddlers (except high-fives -- that's a newer thing), so we just naturally pass them on.

It's not a drilling/forcing them to give up their childhood/competitive thing. Little kids love to sing, and most of the early-childhood songs are easy to master and sing back. These are just fun ways for adults and young children to interact.

I've never thought of any of that stuff as stuff I'm "supposed to" teach my kids, it just naturally comes up. I wouldn't think anything of it if someone else's toddler didn't know those things -- different families have different traditions, and not everyone's include "twinkle twinkle" or high-fives.

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Oh, and what is "so big"?

We did this with our pre-verbal babies -- we'd sit her up and say, "How big is DD?" then put her arms up over her head and say, "So big!" After a while she'd put her arms over her head on her own when we'd say, "How big is DD?" It's just a silly game along the lines of patty cake, but since there's only one motion even babies get the hang of it pretty quickly.