How do we know progesterone is safe when DES was not?

[escher]

I'm not trying to start an argument or in any way imply any criticism of anyone's choice. I'm just trying to make good choices for myself in regards to progesterone supplementation, and I was wondering if anyone has any information on why progesterone supplements are safe even though estrogen supplements (at least in the form of DES) were not. I bet there are reasons, but I just don't know them.

Thank you!

[Maurine]

I don't know, but perhaps it's because DES is synthetic estrogen?

[no5no5]

I guess I'd say that there's some solid evidence that estrogen and estrogen-like chemicals can cause cancer, whereas most experts think that progesterone can protect against it. Also, I think that generally people are proscribed progesterone because their levels are low, whereas my understanding is that that was not the case when DES was prescribed. So theoretically, at least, DES increased prenatal estrogen exposure, whereas progesterone normalizes prenatal estrogen exposure.

I hope I don't sound like I'm promoting progesterone supplementation. I don't think that it's clear that it's a great thing to take, but I'm going to take it this cycle anyway.

[escher]

So maybe in general higher levels of progesterone are healthy (or at least fine) while higher levels of estrogen are not? That makes sense--I just don't know anything about it. Thanks for your replies!

[babycakes1]

I'm sooo curious about this also.

My doc says "it can't hurt" but they are also just finding out that kids under 5yo exposed to 3 or more x-rays have an increased risk of getting luekemia.

I'm so skeptical! But also want to get pregnant!

Any one have any more info?!

[dot1]

Subbing. Hope there will be some more discussion about this

[escher]

Babycakes: My doc says exactly the same thing. She sees it as like a vitamin, just a supplement that won't hurt you and might help. And she may be right! But I wish I had more information on WHY she is right...

[escher]

Here's an article that was in the newspaper yesterday: Post-menopausal hormones boost breast cancer risk, study finds. I know this is only sort of related, since it is about post-menopausal hormone therapy and the people in the study were taking a combination of estrogen and progestin. But they do say that they don't see the increased risk with estrogen alone, so maybe it is related to taking progesterone? I don't know. I'm not totally clear on if progestin is the same as the synthetic progesterone that doctors prescribe to women ttc. Anyway, I thought I would pass it on in case it was interesting to anyone.

[babycakes1]

I read that same article and it totally freaked me out. There are so many examples of this, where docs/pharms says something is safe, and then, years later, we learn of unforeseen consequence.

... I wish I knew what to do!

[HRJ]

From what my dr has told me synethic progestins increase cancer risk but bioidentical progesterone decreases the risk. I had fibrocystic breasts and he (an OB/Gyn) said that progesterone and iodine would help.

My mom has had breast cancer (estrogen based) and she asked her oncologist about me taking progesterone. The oncologist's prospective was that it was fine to take in the short term - say for just getting pregnant and maintaining pregnancy. But to take it every cycle for the rest of my life, wasn't so great.

I think that some of the other fertility drugs - like Clomid - carry cancer risks too. And i would be more leary of Clomid than progesterone.

I have taken it for two pregnancies (about 1-2 cycles before getting pregnant b/c it worked immediately for me) and then until 26 weeks (first time) and 18 weeks (second time).

My current OB thinks that with my current 'estrogen dominance' or progesterone deficiency that if I don't treat it, I WILL get cancer.

[HRJ]

Here are some studies

http://david-zava.blogspot.com/2010/...st-cancer.html

[escher]

HRJ: Those are fascinating resources. Thank you very much for sharing them. I feel like they have great information on why progesterone (such as prometrium) is safer than progestins. It's nice to know that bioidentical progesterone may actually DECREASE the risk of cancer.

Now I just wish that I could find some studies on how bioidentical progesterone impacts a growing fetus...

[HRJ]

Originally Posted by escher12

HRJ: Those are fascinating resources. Thank you very much for sharing them. I feel like they have great information on why progesterone (such as prometrium) is safer than progestins. It's nice to know that bioidentical progesterone may actually DECREASE the risk of cancer.

Now I just wish that I could find some studies on how bioidentical progesterone impacts a growing fetus...

I don't know about actual resources, but my OB/Gyn said I could take my progesterone as long as I wanted b/c there was no harm to the baby. And I trust him wholeheartedly. My son is 5 1/2 and I took progesterone until 26 weeks gestation with him. He's absolutely fine. Actually when I was pregnant with him, I read that progesterone babies are smarter. i can't remember where I was told/read that. I think it had something to do w/ greater oxygen.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by escher12

I'm not trying to start an argument or in any way imply any criticism of anyone's choice. I'm just trying to make good choices for myself in regards to progesterone supplementation, and I was wondering if anyone has any information on why progesterone supplements are safe even though estrogen supplements (at least in the form of DES) were not. I bet there are reasons, but I just don't know them.

Thank you!

Those are two different issues. The article is specifically talking about POST menopausal HRT while DES is a synthetic estrogen given to pregnant women to attempt to reduce pregnancy loss and it's primary risk was to the fetus's those women were carrying.

Another posters mentioning of X-rays is not even applicable to this discussion IMO.

I'm personally not a supporter of HRT in post menopausal women.

[escher]

HRJ: It's good to know that your obgyn thinks it is perfectly safe for the babe--and I'm glad to hear that your experience confirms that! Thank you very much for sharing so much information. It has definitely made me feel much better about taking prometrium.

Arduinna: I think I wasn't clear in my initial post that I am asking about progesterone supplementation while TTC or during pregnancy. There doesn't seem to be much research on that exact question, so I think that is why different people were comparing or contrasting it to DES, x-rays, or post-menopausal HRT. I agree that none of those are an exact match, but unfortunately I haven't seen much information that is directly about bio-identical progesterone supplementation while TTC or pregnant. Does that make sense?

[dot1]

[QUOTE=HRJ;15987174]
I think that some of the other fertility drugs - like Clomid - carry cancer risks too. And i would be more leary of Clomid than progesterone. QUOTE]

This is an interesting comparison...and I wonder about it too. Research discussed in the 2010 version of the Fertility Sourcebook (written by a bioethicist, not an OB who makes money off the industry) suggests that the increased ovarian cancer risk related to clomid is thought to be related to the extra ovulation/ovarian stimulation, not necessarily the drug itself...and that women who've been pregnant (or other things that suppress ovulation) supposedly don't have any increased risk with clomid use....as long as it is only a short period of time (a few months okay...).

I asked about taking progesterone to help me conceive (and lengthen my luteal phase) and my OB pretty clearly indicated it only helps women to STAY pregnant (when there's history of miscarriage) but doesn't help to GET pregant. She said clomid would better achieve that by increasing the odds of a better egg being released (said the progesterone comes from the egg). But if this were the case, wouldn't clomid decrease the risk of miscarriage then?

That article referenced about the menopausal hormone supps didn't seem scary to me...the numbers didn't seem that drastic.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by dot1

But if this were the case, wouldn't clomid decrease the risk of miscarriage then?

The thing about the increased miscarriage risk associated with clomid is that the women who take it usually already have an increased risk just because they've had infertility and/or prior miscarriages. So it's not really clear if clomid causes an increased risk or not. Or at least I think that's the current state of the research, but I could be wrong.

[escher]

I do think progesterone can help people get pregnant by making the luteal phase long enough that the little one has a chance to implant before AF arrives. At least that theory makes sense to me...

Originally Posted by dot1

I asked about taking progesterone to help me conceive (and lengthen my luteal phase) and my OB pretty clearly indicated it only helps women to STAY pregnant (when there's history of miscarriage) but doesn't help to GET pregant.