Holistic Math?

[LuxPerpetua]

I'm still in the "feeling it out" phase of starting our hs-ing journey. (DD is nearly 5 but we won't start any academics for a while yet--probably 6.5 or so--so don't worry about me trying to start things too early). I think like many moms I'm rather math phobic. I always got high marks (many times the top of my class) in school because I have a great memory and can regurgitate quite well, but to be honest I soon forget whatever math I've supposedly "learned" because it makes no sense to me. I still to this day can never remember what to do with fractions--do I find a common denominator or do I multiply the numerator of one with the denominator of the other or do I flip one and multiply, etc.. (I know, sad, sad.) I really want a holistic way of teaching math, one that does not involve simply regurgitating math facts (although I do want dd to learn those too) but I really want her to understand the "why" behind things--why you need a common denominator, why algebra matters, why we study geometry and how math is found in the natural world. My husband is an engineer and just "thinks" mathmatically, and I want that for her. I know from him that you can make equations to explain so many parts of life, but I don't know how this is done, and I want both of us (dd and myself) to understand. I've looked into Waldorf-style math (we're loosely Waldorf-inspired) but those are more imaginative than explanative, if that makes sense. I like the idea of engaging her imagination, and I do want to utilize that but I also want both of us to understand "real world" applications and also the "why" behind the math.

Getting to my point now ... Do any of you know of a particular curriculum or resource that not only emphasizes computational accuracy and fact memorization but also provides a good foundational grounding into the "why's" of math and real world applications (as in, how is this math seen in nature or used in the real world?)?

[jeffsdear]

We like to use Math-U-See. It uses blocks to build the math facts all the way through algebra, so you can see why it works. So, for multiplication, for example, you build rectangles. I have used it with 3 of my children, all of whom are different from each other as far as processing goes, and they all liked it. You can go to their website at www.math-u-see.com to see how it works.

[Lisa1970]

You need Math U See. There are lots of great math programs, but Math U See is particularly wonderful for explaining the whys, and for parents who are not comfortable teaching it. They show you how to teach the lesson in a short video each week. It is a very thorough program. It is exactly what you are looking for.

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by Lisa1970

You need Math U See. There are lots of great math programs, but Math U See is particularly wonderful for explaining the whys, and for parents who are not comfortable teaching it. They show you how to teach the lesson in a short video each week. It is a very thorough program. It is exactly what you are looking for.

Except that I'm fairly sure their family is screen-free. Or will that change as she gets older LP?

[craft_media_hero]

Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: try Miquon.

For one, the manipulatives are simple, wooden, aesthetic, and effective.

For two, I really believe that the program promotes understanding of the concepts. I can't really explain it . . . I think it's how the format changes so that the children make these leaps in understanding so that they can create their own problems dealing with the same concept.

The materials are cheap. Give it a look-see. They recommend that the parent/teacher gets their own book and works through it entirely before presenting the materials to the child (I will admit that I didn't do this, but I do work through them alongside my daughter). You will probably need the Lab Sheet Annotations, which is a little more expensive than the Lab manuals, but can be found used (I saw one at Goodwill for $1).

And I don't think the Orange or Red book would warp a kid even if you did start it around 5. We didn't, though, she started it at 6.

[yllek]

While there are several math programs that seem to do what you are looking for (Singapore, Math Mammoth, RightStart, Miquon, Math U See), I highly recommend that you take this time, before you are actually hs-ing, to acquaint yourself with Liping Ma's book, Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics, read as much as you can from Marilyn Burns, and take a gander at the Math Their Way website (particularly the newsletter pdfs here).

I own Singapore, Math Mammoth, Right Start and Miquon. They all have their strengths and drawbacks, but if you take the time to understand the concepts behind elementary mathematics and to understand the developmental cognitive stages of young children, you will be able to present math concepts in engaging ways, regardless of the program you ultimately choose to adopt for your child.

I can't tell you about Math U See, but I'll give a brief run-down about my experiences with what I do have.

Singapore - Highly engaging, pictorial workbook. Conceptual, but very child-friendly. You need to buy several workbooks in order to get adequate practice. Sometimes, there are conceptual leaps between certain math skills.

Math Mammoth - Very dry format. The writing space is tiny, and the page is rather cluttered. TONS of practice, maybe too much for some children. Incremental development of math concepts, and lots of different strategies are explored.

Right Start - I was all set to love the manipulative and game-based approach of this program, but I HATED the scripted nature of the presentation. So did my ds. We never got off the ground with Right Start. A totally subjective experience with RS, because I know that many folks really love it.

Miquon - I was totally bewildered about how to teach this when I first got it, but I think it's a really great program now. The worksheet format is down-homey and sweet, very child-friendly. Also conceptual. A big downside for me is that I am not that crazy about Cuisenaire rods as a manipulative, and this program uses them a LOT.

In the end, I've realized that while ds likes Singapore the best (lots of cute pictures), we are going to start using it sparingly. Most of our math is going to be explored through games, journaling, math projects, and living math books. I'll probably continue to buy the Singapore series, and I own the whole Math Mammoth and Miquon series, so I can use those to make sure we are covering concepts and can supplement with worksheets if we need to, but especially in these early years, I am going to try to bring math out of the workbooks as much as I can.

[Starflower]

subbing

[LuxPerpetua]

Thanks so much, everyone, for weighing in!

We are totally screen-free and plan to remain that way for a LONG time. Can you do MUS without screentime--like, can I watch the DVD myself and then present the concepts?

I've been attracted to RS but I worry about it being too scripted as Yllek posted above. I've been intrigued by Miquon in the past but I've never used Cuisenaire rods so I hope they explain what you do with them. Do they? Also, does anyone know a ballpark cost for Miquon? I can see dd loving Singapore, and it seems reasonably priced. I have Noble Knights of Knowledge already, as well as some other Waldorf math resources so I'm fine with worksheets for math (just not other subjects so much).

Thank Yllek for the book recommend. I'll be getting that!

Again, thanks so much!

ETA: How well does Singapore explain the "why" behind math?

[kittie313]

I used Miquon to learn math as a kid, and we use it with 7yo dd as a supplement to her k12 math (until we withdraw her from k12 here after I get some money saved up and we finish her LD testing). You absolutely do need the lab annotations book to teach it, some pages you'll find you have no clue how to present them and that book helps soooo much. That one book will cover all 6 workbooks easily. At Rainbow Resource, I believe you can buy the entire set for uhhhhhh around $70 I think plus the $20 for the rods. Now I got my lab annotations book used for free at our hs group's yearly curriculum sale, and I paid $1 for a used set of the rods. SoI just have to pay for the workbooks for her. It is one of the most reasonably priced programs, and if you have a visual child it is a great place to start if you can't afford Math-U-See.

My aunt and uncle use MUS with my cousins. One is a homeschool grad, and the other is 14. They will never choose a different program to teach math for my younger cousin as he gets older. I actually asked my aunt and A (my cousin) about this program just a few weeks ago and A especially couldn't say enough about it. They aren't screen-free at all, so he would grab a snack and his MUS stuff and park it at one of the laptops to watch the lesson on the DVD and do the work completely on his own with aunt checking his work afterward. A doesn't do math very well, it is his weakest subject and he still uses his fingers for basic addition and subtraction at 19 (its just how he's hardwired) but MUS helped him muddle his way through math well enough to pass and do algebra 1 before he graduated. If they didn't switch over to MUS when they did, he would have never made it to pre-algebra most likely.

But IMO, both programs with the rods can really benefit a child who is a visual learner. And yes, with MUS you can watch the lesson on the DVD and then teach it yourself instead of having your child watch it and do the lesson. In fact, I *think* that may be how the program is intended to be done, where the parent watches and then teaches or the parent and child both watch it together and then the parent works with them. But don't hold me to it, the extent of my knowledge of MUS is based on what my aunt and cousin have told me about their experience with the program.

[Lisa1970]

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

Thanks so much, everyone, for weighing in!

We are totally screen-free and plan to remain that way for a LONG time. Can you do MUS without screentime--like, can I watch the DVD myself and then present the concepts?

I've been attracted to RS but I worry about it being too scripted as Yllek posted above. I've been intrigued by Miquon in the past but I've never used Cuisenaire rods so I hope they explain what you do with them. Do they? Also, does anyone know a ballpark cost for Miquon? I can see dd loving Singapore, and it seems reasonably priced. I have Noble Knights of Knowledge already, as well as some other Waldorf math resources so I'm fine with worksheets for math (just not other subjects so much).

Thank Yllek for the book recommend. I'll be getting that!

Again, thanks so much!

ETA: How well does Singapore explain the "why" behind math?

Technically, that is what you are supposed to do. The adult is supposed to watch the video and then present the lesson to him. But many people just leave their child to watch the video, which is really not how it is supposed to be done.

[sweetmama3]

I am not 100% familiar with Math U see, but I have just started Right Start with DS. It is a bit scripted, but I Definitely think that you can go over the lesson yourself, and present it your way. It is definitely a holistic style math, and sounds to me like something that would serve you and your family well.

[canuckgal]

F.U.N Books (Family Unschoolers Network) sells Cusinaire Rods with an "activities book", I think it is from the company. This is a separate thing from the annotations, orange book, etc. Has anyone used this? I have a very very very visual with a math workbook aversion dd who has pretty weak math skills (at least the written workbook kind although she understands concepts). I am trying to find something that works! Thinking of using some rods, also maybe the games book from Right Start that was mentioned. I need something I can use for both kids...ds seems to "get" mental math in a way his sis can't...it's like he has a number line burned in his brain!

Anyone who uses Miquon know what I am talking about?

[Holiztic]

Originally Posted by sweetmama3

I am not 100% familiar with Math U see, but I have just started Right Start with DS. It is a bit scripted, but I Definitely think that you can go over the lesson yourself, and present it your way. It is definitely a holistic style math, and sounds to me like something that would serve you and your family well.

That is exactly what I plan to do. I have had RightStart A for a few months now and I plan to take it out soon. DS is just turning 3.5 and while he is very advanced in ability, we're Waldorfy like the OP and I am hoping to hold off for as long as I reasonably can (without squashing his curiosity).

Anyway, I plan to go through the whole program on my own sometime in the next year and then when we start at 5 or so I'll just have to give a quick glance the day ahead so I can teach it totally in my own words.

Scripted does not work for me! (I also happen to love math and get it very naturally, so scripted math bugs me even more!)

[LianneM]

I don't read RightStart as a script at all - just look over the page and then present it to DS. He loves it - I knew he would, he is all about games and not all about having someone tell him stuff. He loves it and asks to play math games all the time.

[yllek]

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

ETA: How well does Singapore explain the "why" behind math?

Maybe not as much as some other programs. Singapore is structured so that students are approaching mathematics in a very "holistic" way, to use your term, but the "why" behind the math is presented implicitly. I don't have the upper levels of Singapore, but I don't believe the Singapore books address the fundamental axioms of math, for example. I think that it is understood that the instructors will present that information where appropriate.

So for example, kids using Singapore might not ever encounter the term "commutative property," but they will use it all the time in the problems that Singapore presents, kwim? So the concept is definitely there, but it isn't really explicitly taught that there is a basic property of number that has a name and works this way.

I hope this answers your question. I for one think it's really cool to know this stuff explicitly, even at a young age. I don't really consider this rote learning if there is lots of concrete and fun experiences that reinforce this concept. Ds also really appreciates putting "names" to his experiences. Another child may appreciate the more exploratory nature of Singapore without the need for all the names.

[splendid]

I believe conceptual math is the term you are looking for.

[LessTraveledBy]

I taught a group of 2nd graders who had a poor basis in undertanding math. (IOW, most did not get place value at all.) Because of this experience, I realized I had to do something different with dd. We use Math U See and I very happy with it, so far.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

We are totally screen-free and plan to remain that way for a LONG time. Can you do MUS without screentime--like, can I watch the DVD myself and then present the concepts?

This is actually how the instructor on the DVD's suggests it be done.

[AngelBee]

What have you decided on? :)

[LuxPerpetua]

I think we're going to combine Noble Knights of Knowledge with Singapore and Miquon.  I'm thinking of introducing Miquon first and then NKK followed by Singapore and then somehow juggling all 3 (or at least 2) at once.  Thanks for asking!