Airport body scanner and pregnancy - Page 2

[elonwy]

I have a friend who is a radiation safety expert (his job is to examine places and equipment to make sure people don't get exposed to bad stuff) and he explained : "The scanners barely penetrate the dead layer of skin.  In this case the only exposure is to a single, rather radio-resistant organ: the skin.  Skin dose limits, by contrast, are 50,000mrem/yr.  Dose per scan is roughly .02mrem." and "The unborn are just fine.  They get to use your skin." I was weirded out by them at first, but after he explained to me how they work I'm indifferent.

[MamaChef]

There is absolutely no way I would subject my unborn babe to completely untested technology like this.  People freak out about dopplers which have been used for decades and we know about the technology used.   There have been many many studies....

These scanners have not been studied.. we have no idea what they do.  It is a new type of radiation that humans have not be subjected to on large scale studies yet.  Im actually amazed more MDC mothers arent absolutely appauled by this. 

If you opt out they touch you palm up on your mons pubis and labia majora!!!!  Palm up.  Intimately, like only my husband should.  If you opt your children out, you teach them to let authority figures touch them in completely inappropriate and private places.  They SQUEEZE your breasts, lifting them, feeling under them.. with pressure.  When my husband opted out last week they reached UNDER the waistband of his boxers.  They moved his testicles to each side, groping them and feeling underneath them.  Ive heard of women who were made to remove their children's diapers because they were too bulky.

This is disgusting and unnessecary.  1 in 4 women have been victims of sexual assault.  1 in 5 women have been victims of molestation.  To be forced to allow strangers to grope our bodies or see our naked bodies on a screen is horrible.  I cannot tell you how triggering this is to me as a woman who has been a victim of both sexual assault and molestation.  I know I will sob the whole time those people touch me and if I hadnt of booked a trip 4 months ago before any of this was happening I never would fly and subject myself and my 2.5 year old daughter to this!  Now, if I cancel I literally lose almost 2 thousand dollars.. and I still havent decided if that is actually better then traumatizing my daughter and myself this way. 

What a way to start a vacation.

I really urge everyone to opt out of this.  I also beg you to write your senators, congressmen, mayors and news agencies.  This is too much and it needs to be stopped.

[~Adorkable~]

have you seen this first hand? becasue i went thru a pat down just a few weeks ago and it was nothing like that AT ALL.

i agree that if that is indeed fact what they are doing it is wrong, but im just guessing here but that this is not what they are directed to do, if folks are going too far they need to be reported on the spot, if it is actually in writing to do this then i agree that needs to be changed, but untill i see in first person (and i fly a ton!) i am going to stay calm and assume something got out on wack in the story getting passed from person to person

Edited by ~Adorkable~ - 11/15/10 at 12:02pm

[MamaChef]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

have you seen this first hand? becasue i went thru a pat down just a few weeks ago and it was nothing like that AT ALL.

i agree that if that is indeed fact what they are doing it is wrong, but im just guessing here but that this is not what they are directed to do, if folks are going too far they need to be reported on the spot, if it is actually in writing to do this then i agree that needs to be changed, but untill i see in first person (and i fly a ton!) i am going to stay calm and assume something got out on wack in the story getting passed from person to person

Well, my husband experienced it first hand on Nov 6th as I detailed above.  The enhanced pat downs changed after that whole yemen/ bomb thing happened.  I have a close friend who flew a couple days after from SEA to Vancouver that verified that yes they did feel her mons pubis with their palm and squeeze her breasts.  If you do a search you will find several persons first person accounts there are also videos.

http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/

http://pncminnesota.wordpress.com/2010/11/08/rape-survivor-devasted-by-tsa-enhanced-pat-down/
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/TSA-Pat-Down-Like-Sexual-Assault-Passenger-108147589.html

http://consumerist.com/2010/08/tsas-enhanced-pat-down-procedure-lets-their-fingers-do-the-searching.html  - note palms of their hands and fingers will now be used..

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/station/as-seen-on/Woman_claims_new_TSA_Security_Protocol_amounts_to_legalized_groping_Los_Angeles-106802483.html

http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1276131

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/politics/local_politics/TSA_Screenings_New_Jersey_Legislation_111510

That was less then a few moments of a search. 

Edited by MamaChef - 11/15/10 at 12:33pm

[Liora]

Originally Posted by MamaChef 

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

have you seen this first hand? becasue i went thru a pat down just a few weeks ago and it was nothing like that AT ALL.

i agree that if that is indeed fact what they are doing it is wrong, but im just guessing here but that this is not what they are directed to do, if folks are going too far they need to be reported on the spot, if it is actually in writing to do this then i agree that needs to be changed, but untill i see in first person (and i fly a ton!) i am going to stay calm and assume something got out on wack in the story getting passed from person to person

Well, my husband experienced it first hand on Nov 6th as I detailed above.  The enhanced pat downs changed after that whole yemen/ bomb thing happened.  I have a close friend who flew a couple days after from SEA to Vancouver that verified that yes they did feel her mons pubis with their palm and squeeze her breasts.  If you do a search you will find several persons first person accounts there are also videos.
 

And they do this to CHILDREN as well???  There is no way I'd let someone touch my child in that way.
 

[rach03]

Originally Posted by ILoveMyBabyBird 

I wouldn't do it, pregnant or not. I read a while back that many countries don't like kids under 16 go through them, so I'm not taking chances with a fetus.

I agree.  I read an article, and now I'll have to go find it, about backscatter radiation accumulating in the skin due to it not penetrating and diffusing through the body.  The article said there may be a risk for skin and breast cancers.  While that risk may be low, I feel like these machines are way too new for me or my kids to be a guinea pig.  Luckily I do not have plans to fly in the near future, but when I do even if I'm not pregnant I will opt for the pat down.  They can send me through the metal detector and pat me down, but I won't be going through the body scanner.

[WifeofAnt]

Wow.  I had a pat-down in August (random security check) and it was nothing like that.  Are you sure that wasn't like a strip search?

[MamaChef]

Originally Posted by Liora 

Originally Posted by MamaChef 

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

have you seen this first hand? becasue i went thru a pat down just a few weeks ago and it was nothing like that AT ALL.

i agree that if that is indeed fact what they are doing it is wrong, but im just guessing here but that this is not what they are directed to do, if folks are going too far they need to be reported on the spot, if it is actually in writing to do this then i agree that needs to be changed, but untill i see in first person (and i fly a ton!) i am going to stay calm and assume something got out on wack in the story getting passed from person to person

Well, my husband experienced it first hand on Nov 6th as I detailed above.  The enhanced pat downs changed after that whole yemen/ bomb thing happened.  I have a close friend who flew a couple days after from SEA to Vancouver that verified that yes they did feel her mons pubis with their palm and squeeze her breasts.  If you do a search you will find several persons first person accounts there are also videos.
 

And they do this to CHILDREN as well???  There is no way I'd let someone touch my child in that way.
 

Liora,

I know!!!    Im seriously beside myself about this.  My husband said he heard that as of this morning the head of the TSA said they would no longer be doing the advanced pat downs on children under 12.  I have to find the links to verify this.  I hope so.  I think any pat down is ridiculous, but the thought of someone intimately touching my child between her legs sends me into such a rage I think Id be escorted out of there in hand cuffs.  Im teaching my daughter to scream if anyone touches her inappropriately, we are focusing on this alot in the weeks before we fly, if we fly. Im planning on calling Hawaiian and asking for their refund policy in light of these new pat downs.  If I can get them to refund our tickets there is just no way in heck we are flying.

[MamaChef]

Originally Posted by WifeofAnt 

Wow.  I had a pat-down in August (random security check) and it was nothing like that.  Are you sure that wasn't like a strip search?

No, it is the new enhanced pat downs.  Do searches folks and educate yourself.  Im not being a chicken little here.  This is real and it is coming to an airport near you if it hasnt already.

[jennifercp8]

Originally Posted by WifeofAnt 

Wow.  I had a pat-down in August (random security check) and it was nothing like that.  Are you sure that wasn't like a strip search?

The rules have changed since August.  I even flew in the beginning of October, and it was nothing like it is now.  This has just been implemented in the past couple of weeks.

Also, the head guy at TSA was on the Today show, and he is saying that children under the age of 12 are exempt from the pat-down.

[~Adorkable~]

ok i think we can agree that this sounds beyond yucky, lets focus on what the thread was started for and get back to the new style body scanners, other things like this new pat down might be better served in its own thread so as not to hyjack this one.

[MamaChef]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

ok i think we can agree that this sounds beyond yucky, lets focus on what the thread was started for and get back to the new style body scanners, other things like this new pat down might be better served in its own thread so as not to hyjack this one.

I think both of these things are completely interlinked.

[amaayeh]

Originally Posted by MamaChef 

There is absolutely no way I would subject my unborn babe to completely untested technology like this.  People freak out about dopplers which have been used for decades and we know about the technology used.   There have been many many studies....

These scanners have not been studied.. we have no idea what they do.  It is a new type of radiation that humans have not be subjected to on large scale studies yet.  Im actually amazed more MDC mothers arent absolutely appauled by this. 

If you opt out they touch you palm up on your mons pubis and labia majora!!!!  Palm up.  Intimately, like only my husband should.  If you opt your children out, you teach them to let authority figures touch them in completely inappropriate and private places.  They SQUEEZE your breasts, lifting them, feeling under them.. with pressure.  When my husband opted out last week they reached UNDER the waistband of his boxers.  They moved his testicles to each side, groping them and feeling underneath them.  Ive heard of women who were made to remove their children's diapers because they were too bulky.

This is disgusting and unnessecary.  1 in 4 women have been victims of sexual assault.  1 in 5 women have been victims of molestation.  To be forced to allow strangers to grope our bodies or see our naked bodies on a screen is horrible.  I cannot tell you how triggering this is to me as a woman who has been a victim of both sexual assault and molestation.  I know I will sob the whole time those people touch me and if I hadnt of booked a trip 4 months ago before any of this was happening I never would fly and subject myself and my 2.5 year old daughter to this!  Now, if I cancel I literally lose almost 2 thousand dollars.. and I still havent decided if that is actually better then traumatizing my daughter and myself this way. 

What a way to start a vacation.

I really urge everyone to opt out of this.  I also beg you to write your senators, congressmen, mayors and news agencies.  This is too much and it needs to be stopped.

This is exactly what I have been reading about online and exactly how I feel about it.  I simply won't fly if they try to subject me or my children to that.  It is UNACCEPTABLE and we are the ONLY country in the world to allow such behavior.  Ridiculous and does NOTHING for our safety.

[~Adorkable~]

an interesting article on the NPR.com site today about these scanners, i had no idea that there are two different types and one is not x-ray, i would love a more indepth decription of how they both work and why some folks think one is safer than the other.

here is the link Protests Mount Over Safety And Privacy Of Airport Scanners : Shots - Health News Blog : NPR

This could all be avoided, Brenner says, if the government relied entirely on the millimeter-wave scanners instead of the X-ray scanners.

By the way, you might be wondering: Can the average traveler standing in a security line tell the difference? Yes, a TSA spokesman says. The X-ray type is blue and has two walls. The millimeter-wave machine is grayish-white and is more cylindrical.

[jennifercp8]

Originally Posted by MamaChef 

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

ok i think we can agree that this sounds beyond yucky, lets focus on what the thread was started for and get back to the new style body scanners, other things like this new pat down might be better served in its own thread so as not to hyjack this one.

I think both of these things are completely interlinked.

I agree.  If you opt of out of the scan, you get the pat down.  They aren't two different things.
 

[WifeofAnt]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

an interesting article on the NPR.com site today about these scanners, i had no idea that there are two different types and one is not x-ray, i would love a more indepth decription of how they both work and why some folks think one is safer than the other.

Millimeter wave is supposed to be comparable to the radiation a cell phone gives off.  Backscatter x-ray is a little stronger but still LESS radiation than the plane ride and only a small fraction of a 'regular' x-ray.  Everyone seems to forget that you ARE subjecting yourself to small amounts of solar radiation by being 30,000 feet up.  Most of the radiation you're going to receive flying is going to be during the flight, not before.  If you're extremely paranoid about the radiation from a scan then you should probably take a train or bus instead.

[~Adorkable~]

i agree they are linked since one can be the result of the other.

i was just getting back to the original question, of if they were safe or not.

with the new rules i do agree that its important to understand what opting out means as well. 

just wondering if we are getting into another conversation that does not really have to do with safety during pregnancy which is what the tread was about

[MamaChef]

Millimeter wave is right below twave.. what if a machine's calibration is off?  What if you are in there for longer as they oogle your naked body?  What if, what if, what if?  We dont know... we do know this:

(from wikipedia)

Millimeter wave radiation and radio frequency radiation in general is not inherently carcinogenic (unlike X-rays and ultraviolet radiation), but exposure to lower frequencies of microwaves have demonstrated an increased risk of cancer and faster rates of tumor progression.^[10]

A study conducted by Boian S. Alexandrov and colleagues at the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico^[11] performed mathematical models how terahertz fields interact with double-stranded DNA, showing that, even though involved forces seem to be tiny, nonlinear resonances (although much less likely to form than less-powerful common resonances) could allow terahertz waves to "unzip double-stranded DNA, creating bubbles in the double strand that could significantly interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication".^[12]

and as for the xray backscatter.. read the wikipedia for yourself.. what if the machine malfunctions? Also, several scientists have said that the amount emitted is higher then the tsa is saying and yes it is focused on skin..  it is a focused ray, whereas cosmic radiation is diffused.  I dont have my cellphone on my body most of the time.  I know my husband doesnt wear his on his testes.. what does this do to sperm?  So what if I only fly a couple times a year.. what about flight attendents and pilots?  It reminds me of that poem about how they came for the x and I wasnt an x, so I did nothing...  then they came for the y and I wasnt a y, I did nothing.. then they came for me and there was nobody to help me.

[WifeofAnt]

What if the fuel system on the plane malfunctions?  What if birds fly into the engines?  What if the wheels don't come down properly on landing?  What if lightning strikes the plane?

Yes, there is a risk walking into a scanner.  There's also a risk in flying, driving, and doing everything else we do on a daily basis.

[Kristynwy]

I just traveled from Denver to Portland,Or and I was able to opt out and be patted down instead. Denver had full body scanners, however my husband and daughter just went through the regular ones. Portland didn't have the full body scanners, I was patted down there too.

According to the CDC you do have the right to request to skip out on the scanners.

Airport security radiation exposure is minimal for pregnant women and has not been linked to an increase in adverse outcomes for unborn children to date. However, because of early reports of a possible association of radiation exposure during pregnancy and subsequent increased risk of childhood leukemia and cancer, a pregnant passenger may request a hand or wand search rather than being exposed to the radiation of the airport security machines.

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2010/chapter-8/traveling-while-pregnant.aspx