Airport body scanner and pregnancy - Page 3

[MamaChef]

Originally Posted by WifeofAnt 

What if the fuel system on the plane malfunctions?  What if birds fly into the engines?  What if the wheels don't come down properly on landing?  What if lightning strikes the plane?

Yes, there is a risk walking into a scanner.  There's also a risk in flying, driving, and doing everything else we do on a daily basis.

Well, believing in God, those are things out of my control..  What is in my control is letting my government do things that that are unnessecary and treating it's citizenry like criminals with no proven benefit to my safety and possible detriment.  We are the only country doing these ridiculous enhanced pat downs.  Very few use these scanners.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I cringe at the world Im bringing my child into where violations like these are condoned by the masses.

[nia82]

Actually I got a pat down like the current ones in Frankfurt in 2006. Every passenger on my plane was subjected to it (FRA-NYC Kennedy airport). I don't know if there was a certain threat or something, it wasn't fun, but I needed to be on that plane, I also wasn't asked if I want this or not, it just happened to everyone. So I guess the US isn't the only country with enhanced pat-downs.

In Denver 2 weeks ago though I was able to discreetly switch lines to the normal metal detector. It was the line labeled as family line anyways (if you carry liquids and such, it's this green sign at airports)... Nobody said anything.

[Liora]

Originally Posted by WifeofAnt 

What if the fuel system on the plane malfunctions?  What if birds fly into the engines?  What if the wheels don't come down properly on landing?  What if lightning strikes the plane?

Yes, there is a risk walking into a scanner.  There's also a risk in flying, driving, and doing everything else we do on a daily basis.

This is the same argument used by people to get me to vaccinate my child.  There are risks you can control and those you can't.  When it is something in my control I'm going to opt for the safest, most natural option.

[MamaChef]

Ive flown through frankfurt twice since 2008.  Never seen this done as standard operating procedure as it is being done in the US.  Never saw it done in frankfurt period.  Through my job Ive flown through quite a few international airports all over the world and never seen this done as standard operating procedure anywhere.  Im not saying that this doesnt happen one off, Im sure way worse things then this pat down have happened to passengers, like strip searches, etc.. but from all the news accounts Ive seen about this there is no other country that does it as a standard operating procedure. 
 

Originally Posted by nia82 

Actually I got a pat down like the current ones in Frankfurt in 2006. Every passenger on my plane was subjected to it (FRA-NYC Kennedy airport). I don't know if there was a certain threat or something, it wasn't fun, but I needed to be on that plane, I also wasn't asked if I want this or not, it just happened to everyone. So I guess the US isn't the only country with enhanced pat-downs.

In Denver 2 weeks ago though I was able to discreetly switch lines to the normal metal detector. It was the line labeled as family line anyways (if you carry liquids and such, it's this green sign at airports)... Nobody said anything.

Also, on the patdowns.. kids under 12 wont be subjected to enhanced pat downs, but they are still subjected to pat downs.  Just FYI to anyone travelling with a child under 12 that is opting out.

[MegBoz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeMoon 

Aren't these machines totally new though? I can just picture a study a few years from now like "Airport scanners 30,000 times stronger than previously thought." No way would I walk through one of those while pregnant. Even not pregnant I don't think I would. Lots of things when they come out are "proven" to be safe that are later shown not to be. Like x-rays during pregnancy were recommended way back when - things like that make me try and think for myself.

Exactly! Heck, I just heard of research in the past year that CT Scans have a lot more radiation than previously thought -and they've been around a LOT longer than these new scanners!
 

I read some articles about people being given a really hard time for trying to opt out of the new scanners - so don't be so sure you can always jump into the line with the regular old-style metal detectors without repercussions. 

Originally Posted by MamaChef 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WifeofAnt 

What if the fuel system on the plane malfunctions?  What if birds fly into the engines?  What if the wheels don't come down properly on landing?  What if lightning strikes the plane?

Yes, there is a risk walking into a scanner.  There's also a risk in flying, driving, and doing everything else we do on a daily basis.

Well, believing in God, those are things out of my control..  What is in my control is letting my government do things that that are unnessecary and treating it's citizenry like criminals with no proven benefit to my safety and possible detriment.  We are the only country doing these ridiculous enhanced pat downs.  Very few use these scanners.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I cringe at the world Im bringing my child into where violations like these are condoned by the masses.
 

Well, I'm an atheist, but I agree with your sentiment here & I love that Ben Franklin quote.

Birds flying into the engines isn't an applicable analogy here in the least. As Liora eloquently stated, "There are risks you can control and those you can't." Besides, this isn't just about risk - it's about CHOICE! The choice between technology of somewhat unknown safety, and a totally invasive pat down/groping is unacceptable.

[OrangeMoon]

Ugh, ironically we recently had some personal experience with this :-( This thread has new meaning to me now, lol. So, for Halloween we were flying from NYC to Detroit Michigan to be with my family. And I had G with me, and the person that tells you what line to get in told me to get into one, and my husband Kent into the other. I'm pregnant but don't really have problems going through the metal scanner so I did. But Kent was told to go through this x-ray thing, and he said he didn't want to. So he went through the metal detector, but JUST by refusing to go through the x-ray scanner, he had to go through more rigorous testing. All the details are a little fuzzy for me now because the whole thing was so upsetting. So at this time they tested the clothes he was wearing and patted him down, and what are the odds of this, he somehow tested positive for explosives (?????). My husband is one of the greatest guys you'll ever meet and a medical doctor. He told the airport people he is a doctor and regularly handles peoples medications, which the ppl said can be why he tested positive but because of this all of our luggage had to be opened up in front of everyone at the airport and searched for explosives. My husband is a doctor who works every day to save peoples lives and help them. How many ppl who want to take explosives on a plane are MD's and have their pregnant wife and toddler with them? I said this to the airport ppl but they didn't care. So because of this they said they had to do a "thorough pat down" but wouldn't tell me what exactly this meant despite asking multiple times which is one of the things that upset me the most. So these guys take him into this private room, and my toddler FREAKS OUT, and is crying and screaming at the door :-( When Kent got out he wouldn't tell me the details because he was so upset about the whole thing but later he told me they completely groped his balls. Like push things side to side, feel under. I asked him if it was palm up just now and he said he doesn't remember. I think that this is infringing on peoples RIGHTS and it makes me so upset. Why should men and women and children be sexually groped just to get on an airplane? I wish I remembered the links but this guy talked about all these things airlines could do that would make things safer that don't involve infringing on peoples rights and making the whole process EXTREMELY unpleasant. Anyone know who I'm talking about? I just think airlines really have people by the balls (literally and figuratively now unfortunately) because when ppl go on vacation, you've taken a lot of time packing, planning, paying for hotels at your destination, you've taken off from work. How many ppl will turn down their much awaited Hawaiian vacation because they are going to get thoroughly patted down? I don't think a lot of ppl and it really makes me nervous. If you turned it down and thus couldn't get on your flight, I really wouldn't be surprised if the airline still wouldn't refund your ticket. The whole thing is just awful and it really makes me wish there were more trains in this country like there are in Europe. I am still so upset about what happened. I was patted down with G on another trip and I found it upsetting enough. Having my boobs and crotch groped??? Um, NO WAY! I felt so bad for my husband, him getting his balls groped while his toddler son screams for him and is crying, hitting the door. Can you imagine?!!?

And when I was watching one of the guys digging into our luggage, the supervisor who was standing with us called over to him and said "test your gloves first!". So the guy pulled his hands out of our luggage and THEN tested his hands for whatever. He didn't even follow protocol. Was HE the one who tested my husband for explosives? Because maybe it was residue from something else and he didn't change his damn gloves. I said to the supervisor "We haven't had the time to go on a date in two years, you think we have the time to dabble in explosives?" ugh.
 

Originally Posted by MegBoz 

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeMoon 

Aren't these machines totally new though? I can just picture a study a few years from now like "Airport scanners 30,000 times stronger than previously thought." No way would I walk through one of those while pregnant. Even not pregnant I don't think I would. Lots of things when they come out are "proven" to be safe that are later shown not to be. Like x-rays during pregnancy were recommended way back when - things like that make me try and think for myself.

Exactly! Heck, I just heard of research in the past year that CT Scans have a lot more radiation than previously thought -and they've been around a LOT longer than these new scanners!
 

I read some articles about people being given a really hard time for trying to opt out of the new scanners - so don't be so sure you can always jump into the line with the regular old-style metal detectors without repercussions. 

Originally Posted by MamaChef 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WifeofAnt 

What if the fuel system on the plane malfunctions?  What if birds fly into the engines?  What if the wheels don't come down properly on landing?  What if lightning strikes the plane?

Yes, there is a risk walking into a scanner.  There's also a risk in flying, driving, and doing everything else we do on a daily basis.

Well, believing in God, those are things out of my control..  What is in my control is letting my government do things that that are unnessecary and treating it's citizenry like criminals with no proven benefit to my safety and possible detriment.  We are the only country doing these ridiculous enhanced pat downs.  Very few use these scanners.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I cringe at the world Im bringing my child into where violations like these are condoned by the masses.
 

Well, I'm an atheist, but I agree with your sentiment here & I love that Ben Franklin quote.

Birds flying into the engines isn't an applicable analogy here in the least. As Liora eloquently stated, "There are risks you can control and those you can't." Besides, this isn't just about risk - it's about CHOICE! The choice between technology of somewhat unknown safety, and a totally invasive pat down/groping is unacceptable.

Edited by OrangeMoon - 11/16/10 at 10:24am

[atnightingale]

I opted out three weeks ago in Indianapolis.  This was one of the Millimeter Wave Scanners not the backscatter.  I was only 8 weeks, so not visibly pregnant.  They made a big deal and made several attempts to pressure me to go through and kept trying to educate me during the pat down.  They also told me 1 outright lie and 1 irrelevant (though probably unintentional) mistruth.  I was pretty annoyed.

[mkat83]

I'm going to be flying in May, and will likely be pregnant then, and I hadn't thought of this issue until DH was watching online the videos from that guy who just recently recorded his experience when he refused the body scan and refused the thorough pat-down.  DH said to me, "I definitely don't want you walking through one of those when you are pregnant."  I said, well, I can just be searched, but it seems that the NEW pat-down procedures are a lot different than the "old" ones.

I did a quick search online to see just what airports have the body scanner to see if we will be in any of them on our trip (one is   I just flew out of that airport recently and didn't even notice it, though-- New Orleans).  Here is the most recent list I found-- says it was updated as of 11/15/10:

http://www.jaunted.com/story/2010/11/15/165132/48/travel/An+Updated+List+of+the+80%2B+Airports+with+Full-Body+Scanners

[MamaChef]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1138014-complete-list-airports-whole-body-imaging-advanced-imaging-technology-scanner.html

This list is being constantly updated and it tells you what kind of machines are at each security checkpoint.

[Stayseeliz]

I'm joining the discussion late but I heard a radio interview about this today. John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute said pregnant women should absolutely NOT walk through the scanners. He said there is 20x the amount of radiation with those machines compared to a dental x-ray. Yikes. He also said if you refuse and have to do the pat-down make sure to asked to be seated AWAY from the scanners to avoid any radiation exposure there. Scary stuff.

[Jayray]

There is a difference between the x-rays used for dental x-rays and the x-rays used in the scanners.  The x-rays in the scanners don't penetrate the skin (significantly), whereas the dental x-rays do.  This is part of the reason why the scanners are "safer."

If it influences anyone, my husband is a nuclear physicist and he told me he'd rather me go through the scanner than be groped by a stranger.

[Liora]

Originally Posted by Jayray 

If it influences anyone, my husband is a nuclear physicist and he told me he'd rather me go through the scanner than be groped by a stranger.

lol.  but isn't it sad if that is your only two choices?  I think the terrorists are winning.

[OrangeMoon]

Originally Posted by Liora 

Originally Posted by Jayray 

If it influences anyone, my husband is a nuclear physicist and he told me he'd rather me go through the scanner than be groped by a stranger.

lol.  but isn't it sad if that is your only two choices?  I think the terrorists are winning.

****LIKE**** :-)
 

[Karamom]

Originally Posted by Liora 

Originally Posted by Jayray 

If it influences anyone, my husband is a nuclear physicist and he told me he'd rather me go through the scanner than be groped by a stranger.

lol.  but isn't it sad if that is your only two choices?  I think the terrorists are winning.

 also **LIKE** lol

I am in agreement with mamachef. This whole issue outrages me! The infringement on our rights is horrific.

ETA: I just realized that there is an actual like button in this new format!

[Stayseeliz]

There are several organizations suing the TSA over the infringement of our rights. There are other ways to up safety without these kind of tactics.

 

Originally Posted by Karamom 

Originally Posted by Liora 

Originally Posted by Jayray 

If it influences anyone, my husband is a nuclear physicist and he told me he'd rather me go through the scanner than be groped by a stranger.

lol.  but isn't it sad if that is your only two choices?  I think the terrorists are winning.

 also **LIKE** lol

I am in agreement with mamachef. This whole issue outrages me! The infringement on our rights is horrific.

ETA: I just realized that there is an actual like button in this new format!

[Carolina Kel]

I personally don't plan on going through the new scanning machines if I can help it... although the thought of getting to third base with someone from TSA without dinner, a drink and a movie is definitely making me think it's time for Amtrak or a road-trip instead.

On a funnier note...

My husband is going to be flying soon. He's going to be wearing a larger friend's utilikilt that needs a belt to stay on. And yes, he'll be going true regimental style... which means when they ask for his belt, he's going to be giving TSA a lot more than they asked for ;)

And yes... the terrorists are definitely winning on this one. 

[OrangeMoon]

The thing that really pisses me off about this whole thing is when they first introduced these scanners, the general message was "We are introducing these new scanners to try and improve safety, if you don't want to go through it then that's fine, you can go in the metal detector line, it just might be a lot longer". But NOW if you say you don't want to go through this new scanner you are treated as a terrorist suspect and subjected to sexual acts you don't want to be involved in, that is SO f*cked up! I wish I lived in europe, why has America stopped making and improving trains for transportation? I would take that in a second until all this craziness is over. And I'm really glad they are being sued! They deserve it!

[dayiscoming2006]

I agree with those saying they wouldn't go through the scanner because of the lack of solid evidence that they are absolutely safe and because I don't want anyone seeing me naked other than hubby. I also would not agree to a grope search. So, I better just stay out of the airport or I might end up in jail or something. If anyone touched my kids I would probably be thrown in jail too. So, well, like I said, I'll stay away for now. I just flew in May and didn't have any issues. This is just ridiculous. 

[reelgeek]

Here is a link to a letter from a group of UCSF doctors about their concern about the backscatter x-ray machines in the SFO airport. Lists the concerns and people they feel are generally at risk.

http://j.mp/cancer-ray

[Goddess3_2005]

Steer clearof them, my father is a physician and he told me there is evidence that they disrupt the DNA and would be very dangerous to a pregnant woman. We opted to drive for our trip. ;)