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Airport body scanner and pregnancy - Page 5

post #81 of 122

I fly a ton and I'm avoiding them like the plague! LOL If you can see your bones in the pictures (which you can) then it has to be enough radiation for me to not want scanned (pregnant or not). I know corpus christi, TX/Houston, TX/Chicago-O' Hare/ Mobile, AL and Atlanta, GA. None in Birmingham, AL though. Now since the larger airports have multiple security sections you may not see them and they still use the old scanners also. These are the airports I have been in this month.

post #82 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by globe-trotter View Post

LOL If you can see your bones in the pictures (which you can) then it has to be enough radiation for me to not want scanned (pregnant or not).


i agree that the re is a lot to wonder about with the new scans, but this statement above is makes no sense if you can see your bones with them then why is the issue that some folks have with them is that they see the skin a little too well! bones would not feel like such an private intrusion and it cant be both ways!?

post #83 of 122


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by globe-trotter View Post

LOL If you can see your bones in the pictures (which you can) then it has to be enough radiation for me to not want scanned (pregnant or not).


i agree that the re is a lot to wonder about with the new scans, but this statement above is makes no sense if you can see your bones with them then why is the issue that some folks have with them is that they see the skin a little too well! bones would not feel like such an private intrusion and it cant be both ways!?


I think her point was not regarding the personal intrusion, but the fact that if there are enough x-rays to see your bones, there may well be enough to potentially hurt a fetus.

 

I personally think it's just a crock. I live overseas and have traveled extensively, on numerous occasions throughout Europe and flew through Egypt four times over the past year. Noone does what we do - it's ridiculous and it's certainly not safer - just reactive. Now that the terrorists are stashing stuff in body cavities, does that mean that we're going to have to have full body cavity searches as well? The new scanners won't detect that.

post #84 of 122

and what i was saying is they dont look at bones, they look at skin. and i dont see how they could look at both, its not how things like that work, so i was confused 

 

 

and if they could see bones they could see body cavities, and they cant as you mention

post #85 of 122

This is an interesting blog post from someone with a scientific perspective who is highly against these machines.  http://myhelicaltryst.blogspot.com/2010/11/tsa-x-ray-backscatter-body-scanner.html

post #86 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

and what i was saying is they dont look at bones, they look at skin. and i dont see how they could look at both, its not how things like that work, so i was confused 

 

 

and if they could see bones they could see body cavities, and they cant as you mention


Well look at the TSA link she posted.. it sure does look like the backscatter is seeing spines, clavicles, sternums.. etc

Since they use backscatter to look for bone fragments in factory farmed chicken, you definitely can detect bone with it.  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WXV-48DXPVY-1&_user=10&_coverDate=06%2F30%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1562645398&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9419f73b45717f9f1e6506415a3c1042&searchtype=a

T

he question is are the ones at airports as high as the ones they use for things like that..  the pictures sure look like they are

 

http://nealkrawetz.net/blog/index.php?/archives/407-Hands-All-Over.html

http://www.diagnosticimaging.com/safety/content/article/113619/1521147

 

k9sarchik, I was going to post that article too.  It is a very researched very well written and supported article.  The statistics on the doses to children are staggering and the fact that the tests that they did run and have published to the public were with one of the xray emitting devices OFF while it is on in everyday use and everyone that walks through a backscatter scanner is exposed to it, is ridiculous.

 

post #87 of 122

I'm a medical physicist; my job is to do quality assurance checks to ensure the safety of radiation machines in hospitals so that patients don't get overdosed.  I have three concerns about the backscatter xray scanners:

 

1) Nobody is doing QAs.  Seriously, nobody.  The dose is low, but if the machine malfunctions nobody will know, and if the TSO operating it doesn't know what they're doing and holds down the button too long, you could easily get a lot more radiation than the TSA-spun press releases say.

 

2) In most states it's actually illegal to dose people with ionizing radiation for non-medical reasons, and/or if the radiation hasn't been prescribed by a doctor.

 

3) Low-dose x-rays have been shown to cause cellular damage that actually lingers longer than that from higher doses.  Long story short, the low-dose damage doesn't trigger the cell's repair mechanism, so your body doesn't know there's a problem and thus doesn't fix it. 

 

I'm 10 weeks pregnant, and I'll be traveling for Christmas out of an airport that has the xray scanners (they announced that they'd been put in 2 days after we bought non-refundable tickets, or I would've saved the money and planned on driving).  I'll be hoping that I get left alone to go through the magnetometer, but if I get "randomly selected" (my bump could be a bomb, after all) I'll be bypassing the scanner and yelling "Opt out!!" with the TSO trying to shame me into complying.

post #88 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikie23 View Post

I'm a medical physicist; my job is to do quality assurance checks to ensure the safety of radiation machines in hospitals so that patients don't get overdosed.  I have three concerns about the backscatter xray scanners:

 

1) Nobody is doing QAs.  Seriously, nobody.  The dose is low, but if the machine malfunctions nobody will know, and if the TSO operating it doesn't know what they're doing and holds down the button too long, you could easily get a lot more radiation than the TSA-spun press releases say.

 

2) In most states it's actually illegal to dose people with ionizing radiation for non-medical reasons, and/or if the radiation hasn't been prescribed by a doctor.

 

3) Low-dose x-rays have been shown to cause cellular damage that actually lingers longer than that from higher doses.  Long story short, the low-dose damage doesn't trigger the cell's repair mechanism, so your body doesn't know there's a problem and thus doesn't fix it. 

 

I'm 10 weeks pregnant, and I'll be traveling for Christmas out of an airport that has the xray scanners (they announced that they'd been put in 2 days after we bought non-refundable tickets, or I would've saved the money and planned on driving).  I'll be hoping that I get left alone to go through the magnetometer, but if I get "randomly selected" (my bump could be a bomb, after all) I'll be bypassing the scanner and yelling "Opt out!!" with the TSO trying to shame me into complying.


Thanks for this!  I'm concerned too about TSOs running these things.  When you go to the dr. there is a professional there and those machines are tested frequently. 

 

I've never cared how low they say the dose is because radiation is cumulative - so add up all the x-rays, dental x-rays, and all the flights, and they can't possibly say when I've reached a threshold.  This is also the reason I don't want to start my 2 year old on radiation accumulation so young.  Much radiation is unavoidable so I'm not subjecting her to the avoidable kind.

 

Then again, NO ONE is groping my kid.  Luckily I can say I'm not going to fly but that isn't really the answer.  What if I had family over seas?  It isn't fair to have to choose between health, sexual assault, or being without family.

 

I know I"m preaching to the choir here! :)

post #89 of 122

Just to give an update for anyone who's interested, I just flew through Raleigh-Durham and Boston Logan.  Both places had the new scanners and were sending most people through them.  However, when they saw I was pregnant, they sent me through the old metal detectors.  No pat down.  I also saw them sending moms with small children through the old metal detectors.  I didn't see anyone getting patted down.

post #90 of 122

Banana- I sent him the link and asked him to 'splain, I'll let you know.

 

Am I weird in that when reading more about the pat-downs I became more concerned about my possible severe allergic reaction to the latex gloves they wear than anything else? It's just the thought of flying with a violent rash just really isn't cool, ya know?

post #91 of 122

Banana - Here is my friends response, which makes a lot of sense to me actually.

 

 

In this picture showing skin contour, you mean? http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/backscatter_large.jpg
 
That one's easy to explain: Those Aren't Bones.  That's someone with good calf muscles and little body fat there.

 

post #92 of 122
Um, did anyone else see the (sorry I don't have the source at my fingertips...) possible pat down issues of TSA employees not changing there gloves between patdowns and transmitting gonorhea, syphillis, lice, and other bacteria/virus from person to person...

EEEWWWWW....


puke.gif


Jenne
post #93 of 122

It was mentioned in the same article I posted a few days ago about the lady who was singled out for wearing Glad Rags.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenne View Post

Um, did anyone else see the (sorry I don't have the source at my fingertips...) possible pat down issues of TSA employees not changing there gloves between patdowns and transmitting gonorhea, syphillis, lice, and other bacteria/virus from person to person...

EEEWWWWW....


puke.gif


Jenne
post #94 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaChef View Post


 

If you opt out they touch you palm up on your mons pubis and labia majora!!!!  Palm up.  Intimately, like only my husband should.  If you opt your children out, you teach them to let authority figures touch them in completely inappropriate and private places.  They SQUEEZE your breasts, lifting them, feeling under them.. with pressure.  When my husband opted out last week they reached UNDER the waistband of his boxers.  They moved his testicles to each side, groping them and feeling underneath them.  Ive heard of women who were made to remove their children's diapers because they were too bulky.

 


 

First off, I haven't had time to finish reading everything, so if someone has already said this, I apologize.

 

I have issues with this statement because I've read/heard these stories and don't know what rights we have as passenger to say that is not part of the protocol/procedure etc. What bothers me is there is nothing on TSA's website saying this is allowed or not allowed. I would put up a fight if someone tried to put their hands down my pants. On TSA's blog, Blogger Bob states that you are not supposed to be asked to remove your clothing (for the record DD's CD are clothing in my eyes) and if you are to contact a supervisor immediately, however under the religious clothing section of TSA's website it says that if your clothing is large enough to hide object "then you will undergo a combination of hand-wand screening and/or pat-down inspections that could include any portion of the body and head area that requires further examination." The word "any" bothers me. It's too vague and any agent can interpret this the wrong way and say I have permission to search your body... I have emailed TSA and used the talk to TSA option to ask what is and isn't allowed during a pat down. I used putting hands down the underwear as a specific example, but I have yet to receive a response. Also, TSA has not even responded to any media stories like this.

 

On a side note, DH and I travel a few times a year to visit family and I know from personal experience that TSA is inconsistent. SEA is the worst and I'm from that area. No hometown pride with that one! In the past five years I've flown out of Seattle, Providence TF Green, Boston, Newport News, Richmond, Ft. Lauderdale, Montego Bay (this doesn't really count) and both Chicago airports. Seattle always has their own set of rules and I find the agents there to be high on authority.

post #95 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by elonwy View Post
Am I weird in that when reading more about the pat-downs I became more concerned about my possible severe allergic reaction to the latex gloves they wear than anything else? It's just the thought of flying with a violent rash just really isn't cool, ya know?


Oddly enough, this may be the one thing you don't have to be worried about.  None of the gloves I have seen in airports or pictured in stories have been latex.  Most have been the blue nitrile, including those in the story about TSA not changing their gloves.

post #96 of 122


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenne View Post

Um, did anyone else see the (sorry I don't have the source at my fingertips...) possible pat down issues of TSA employees not changing there gloves between patdowns and transmitting gonorhea, syphillis, lice, and other bacteria/virus from person to person...

EEEWWWWW....


puke.gif


Jenne

 

Interesting. Well if the pat downs are limited to above clothing only, I would think this is unlikely. However, if TSA is allowed to go under clothing (which I'm still trying to find out for sure) then this sounds very likely. Gloves are for their protection as well as ours. In the food service industry you are supposed to change your gloves if you touch something else (ex: opening a door, lid, grabbing a jar) before going back to what you were doing. In the medical field hands have to be washed and new gloves put on before going to the next person.

post #97 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by elonwy View Post

Banana - Here is my friends response, which makes a lot of sense to me actually.

 

 

In this picture showing skin contour, you mean? http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/backscatter_large.jpg
 
That one's easy to explain: Those Aren't Bones.  That's someone with good calf muscles and little body fat there.

 

 

 

 

Who's skin is contoured like that! I mean, yeah, you can see muscle outline, but you can also see patella!  headscratch.gif Did you look at the head? I mean, it's been a while since I took Anatomy Who has skin contour like that? Good calf muscles? How does that expain the shin bones? Sounds a little suspect...

 

I asked a doctor friend, we're getting a second opnion!

 

post #98 of 122

They used the new scanners when I flew over Thanksgiving, and I opted out.  It was REALLY no big deal.  The pat down was above my clothing, and when they went over my butt and breasts they used the backs of their hands.  I have honestly been patted down that thoroughly in Germany as part of standard safety protocol.  Just thought that might make people feel a little better.  winky.gif

post #99 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenne View Post

Um, did anyone else see the (sorry I don't have the source at my fingertips...) possible pat down issues of TSA employees not changing there gloves between patdowns and transmitting gonorhea, syphillis, lice, and other bacteria/virus from person to person...

EEEWWWWW....


puke.gif


Jenne



I did, I think it was in the 'glad rag' story. They stated that "some med experts were concerned..." I don't know how accurate it was, there was no quote from a specific person about spreading all those things. It talked about how people could accidentally transfer things like feces to the outside of their own pants, and then get a pat down which could put e.Coli, etc on the TSA employees gloves, and then get spread to the next person. I could see it, you don't wash your hands until after you button your pants up in airport bathroom. And you could definitely spread things like lice that way...

 

it's way ewwww, gloves shouldn't touch more than one person's body.

post #100 of 122

I did want to clarify.  Although they reached inside the waistband of his jeans and boxers, by a good inch or two below where the waistband ended...they groped his testicles from the outside.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsberman View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaChef View Post


 

If you opt out they touch you palm up on your mons pubis and labia majora!!!!  Palm up.  Intimately, like only my husband should.  If you opt your children out, you teach them to let authority figures touch them in completely inappropriate and private places.  They SQUEEZE your breasts, lifting them, feeling under them.. with pressure.  When my husband opted out last week they reached UNDER the waistband of his boxers.  They moved his testicles to each side, groping them and feeling underneath them.  Ive heard of women who were made to remove their children's diapers because they were too bulky.

 


 

First off, I haven't had time to finish reading everything, so if someone has already said this, I apologize.

 

I have issues with this statement because I've read/heard these stories and don't know what rights we have as passenger to say that is not part of the protocol/procedure etc. What bothers me is there is nothing on TSA's website saying this is allowed or not allowed. I would put up a fight if someone tried to put their hands down my pants. On TSA's blog, Blogger Bob states that you are not supposed to be asked to remove your clothing (for the record DD's CD are clothing in my eyes) and if you are to contact a supervisor immediately, however under the religious clothing section of TSA's website it says that if your clothing is large enough to hide object "then you will undergo a combination of hand-wand screening and/or pat-down inspections that could include any portion of the body and head area that requires further examination." The word "any" bothers me. It's too vague and any agent can interpret this the wrong way and say I have permission to search your body... I have emailed TSA and used the talk to TSA option to ask what is and isn't allowed during a pat down. I used putting hands down the underwear as a specific example, but I have yet to receive a response. Also, TSA has not even responded to any media stories like this.

 

On a side note, DH and I travel a few times a year to visit family and I know from personal experience that TSA is inconsistent. SEA is the worst and I'm from that area. No hometown pride with that one! In the past five years I've flown out of Seattle, Providence TF Green, Boston, Newport News, Richmond, Ft. Lauderdale, Montego Bay (this doesn't really count) and both Chicago airports. Seattle always has their own set of rules and I find the agents there to be high on authority.

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