Visitation eow blurred lines. (and a little rambling vent)

[hillymum]

Sbx has visitation every other weekend at the moment as ordered by the judge. Sbx has been requesting to see our children on his none-visitation weekends. Am I being selfish by turning him down or am I totally ok saying no to him?
I don't always say no. He's taking our youngest to a scout activity next weekend, but if I am taking all three boys with me to something then I don't want sbx there. We actually have a mutual restraining order in place.

I'm trying really hard to put the kids first in this.
I'm also trying to set boundries with sbx and he keeps pushing and pushing. He's been on at me to drop the restraining order and then gets verbally aggressive when I say no. I think his main motivation is his anger at being ordered to not enter the family home. Every time he gets angry at me he goes back to "well you started this by locking me out of my home". AHHHHHHH Point me in the right direction? Please........

[MissLotus]

He's been on at me to drop the restraining order and then gets verbally aggressive when I say no.

Well there's an irony right there... I would pointedly say, "This is why." Though actually even that's more than he deserves - better to go with the generic, "Sorry you feel that way." And when he tries to blame it all on you (you "threw him out" or whatever), end the conversation. "Sorry you feel that way."

And no way to the stuff on YOUR weekends. You and your kids are entitled to have peaceful mom/kid days off together, just like he's getting on his weekends. I would not set a precedent of anything different!

If he's bad at observing boundaries, I would not do more than the visitation schedule requires. My ex is horrible about boundaries - somehow thinks our divorce agreement doesn't apply to him - and I used to give more so that our son would not feel his life was so restricted to either/or parent. But being flexible - with someone who takes a mile when you give an inch - is not productive. Then they don't follow ANYthing. And then your kids are subjected to way more tension than they need to be.

I mean yeah, if there's a school concert or the occasion thing for "dad" to take the kids to, then great. But I would make that very occasional. Just speaking from long experience with this sort of person.

[cheer mom]

can you offer him a Wednesday evening?

[Super~Single~Mama]

As long as you are not denying his COURT ORDERED TIME you can say no. Especially if it is infringing on the restraining order.

I know you want to put the kids first, and by LIMITING your exposure to VERBAL ABUSE you are putting your children first.

[Mackenzie]

Originally Posted by MissLotus

He's been on at me to drop the restraining order and then gets verbally aggressive when I say no.

Well there's an irony right there... I would pointedly say, "This is why." Though actually even that's more than he deserves - better to go with the generic, "Sorry you feel that way." And when he tries to blame it all on you (you "threw him out" or whatever), end the conversation. "Sorry you feel that way."

And no way to the stuff on YOUR weekends. You and your kids are entitled to have peaceful mom/kid days off together, just like he's getting on his weekends. I would not set a precedent of anything different!

If he's bad at observing boundaries, I would not do more than the visitation schedule requires. My ex is horrible about boundaries - somehow thinks our divorce agreement doesn't apply to him - and I used to give more so that our son would not feel his life was so restricted to either/or parent. But being flexible - with someone who takes a mile when you give an inch - is not productive. Then they don't follow ANYthing. And then your kids are subjected to way more tension than they need to be.

I mean yeah, if there's a school concert or the occasion thing for "dad" to take the kids to, then great. But I would make that very occasional. Just speaking from long experience with this sort of person.

That is exactly what I was thinking when reading. That is logical in his mind, how? ugh...

Anyhow, I agree with the PPs that said that you are fine. You do not owe him anything more, as long as you are doing what you are bound by paperwork to do...

[sparklefairy]

My first thought was no matter whose weekend, special events like concerts, sporting events, etc. why shouldn't the other parent show up? This I read "restraining order." Nope, while that's in place your time is your time and his time is his time.

[provocativa]

it may also be that when you give him more time, you set a precedent for him getting more time, should he ever take you back to court for a different custody arrangement. and i recall that your ex was only abusive to you and not the kids, but that could also change, and he could become abusive to them. limiting children's time with an abuser is always a good thing, imo.

[jojobean]

You deserve your weekends with your kids Mama. Guilt free. I am in a similar scenario with a PP, with an ex who takes and takes if I give a little and really doesn't respect the fact that I have a family life and that IT is important as well. Follow the court appointed requirements, and then it is what you are comfortable with in your situation. SO for now maybe that looks like just every other weekend. Time will go on and things could look differently in a year or whenever.

[Lisa1970]

If he is the one doing scouts with the kids, I would just hand that activity over to him and let him do it with them. I think that is reasonable. Then, if he needs them on an off weekend, then I would suggest you get to keep them on his on weekend. Honestly, it sounds like there is no harm to letting him just take them to the scouts. In this case, I do think it would be unreasonable for you to say no.

Good luck and I hope you work things out.

[hillymum]

Thank you for the replies!

Originally Posted by cheer mom

can you offer him a Wednesday evening?

No. he works in a different state from early monday morning until late thursday eveing.

Originally Posted by provocativa

it may also be that when you give him more time, you set a precedent for him getting more time, should he ever take you back to court for a different custody arrangement. and i recall that your ex was only abusive to you and not the kids, but that could also change, and he could become abusive to them. limiting children's time with an abuser is always a good thing, imo.

Setting a precedent is something I am concerned about. As it is sbx has already told me he wants 50/50 physical custody.

Originally Posted by Lisa1970

If he is the one doing scouts with the kids, I would just hand that activity over to him and let him do it with them. I think that is reasonable. Then, if he needs them on an off weekend, then I would suggest you get to keep them on his on weekend. Honestly, it sounds like there is no harm to letting him just take them to the scouts. In this case, I do think it would be unreasonable for you to say no.

Good luck and I hope you work things out.

He isn't. He talked our middle son out of it but wasn't able to talk our youngest. I've struggled to pay for everything to do with scouts on my own, even buying tent/sleeping bags. I asked him twice if he wanted to be involved but he said no both times. he then bumped into the scout leader and got his name on the mailing list and tried to get me agree to him going with the boys and I. As I couldn't aford to by any tickets and our two oldest don't want to go I suggested to him that he takes our youngest who wants to go. I hope I do not regret that!

he's since emailed me asking if he can take just our eldest trick or treating on my weekend (while my parents are visiting from England). I think I am going to say no to that. He just keeps pushing and pushing and making me feel guilty for taking his children away from him.

[MissLotus]

I would not agree to the trick or treating thing. Making exceptions sometimes is one thing, but his requests sound like one endless barrage! If that's on your weekend AND your parents are there to visit the kids, then tough for him.

As you can tell I have very little tolerance for controlling psychopaths. Because here's the thing: It will never be enough. You could agree to 19 things he wants, but if you don't give in to the 20th, he'll complain and hound and threaten and manipulate. I bet you are seeing this already. My ex is the same way. I have found it best to stand my ground from the get-go, whenever possible - or else he'll always keep trying to see how far he can push you, knowing you'll eventually give in, and you'll never have any peace.

[txbikegrrl]

Just say no! Seriously. Then send a matter of fact email explaining that you plan your month(s) around the schedule and will not interefere with his time either. Now if he were a reasonable person my advice would be very different...

[Oh the Irony]

If there was no abuse, I would be all for it. Every other weekend is not a lot of time with your child.

In your situation, HECK NO. Seriously, if you give an inch he'll go for 5 miles.

[sparklefairy]

Originally Posted by hillymum

He just keeps pushing and pushing and making me feel guilty for taking his children away from him.

How exasperating! He's trying to take them away from you!

When my ex and I first started to alternate weekends, he would always come up with some reason that he needed to be with them for part of my weekend. I felt really strongly that 2 weeks was too long to go for both him and the kids... but also that it was unfair for him to skate out on the "have to" parenting but get most of the "get to" parenting (ie the responsibilities during the week versus the recreation of the weekends), not only for my sake but also for the kids seeing a man as the "fun" parent and the woman as the "responsible" parent.

We came up with sharing every weekend. Usually I have them from Friday night until Saturday afternoon and he takes them at that point until Sunday night.

So far things have revolved around his work schedule... we'll see what happens when I start working in the next couple years (I'm only in the classroom 15-20 hour/week).

[hillymum]

AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH sbx just dropped the boys off and asked to play in the backyard with them. After I said no he then put youngest ds on the phone to ask me. He does not get the deal with the restraining order at all! He just keeps pushing pushing pushing.

[vannienicole]

If he continues to attempt or does violate the restraining order, what steps can you take?

[hillymum]

If he tries to force his way into the house I have to call the police. Other than that all I can do is inform my attorney. He's been in front of the judge for contempt already and she didn't do anything apart from restate the conditions of the orders.

he really is living on another planet! He dropped off the kids and the first thing they tell me is how he's found an apartment for us to live in! He has also apparently found a job here which the judge clearly stated he is not allowed to do.
There is nothing I can do until he actually tells me what he has done so I really shouldn't worry about it. As I said before aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[LoveOhm]

Originally Posted by txbikegrrl

Just say no! Seriously. Then send a matter of fact email explaining that you plan your month(s) around the schedule and will not interefere with his time either. Now if he were a reasonable person my advice would be very different...

[provocativa]

are you recording all the phone calls and convos with him? they are admissable in court in kentucky, which i know you know. i wouldn't think a judge would like him repeatedly asking to violate the restraining order, and / or manipulating the kids to get you to violate the restraining order.

[hillymum]

The conversations are done via text. I will no longer actually talk with him over the phone. I lent my recorder to a friend who's husband has been really abusive. I guess I will have to ask for it back just in case.