Potty learning troubles/disagreements (26 months old boy)

[nia82]

DH is pushing this really hard, as a subject. We let DS run around diaper free and have two potties available around, he has been watching us for months using the bathroom, with us explaining. He can hold in his pee, be has his regular bowel movements...
Recently he actually asks for a diaper when he runs around naked to pee and poop... I feel he is physically ready, but doesn't care much about getting rid of diapers. Like e.g. he hates diaper change, and rather sits in his poop forever despite getting a really red heiny. He seems somewhat stubborn on the whole issue... No matter how often I explain that we can ditch diaper changes if we use the potty, or even tried the good ole chocolate bribe without success...
DH is getting so antsy about this, but I think the more he gets pushed (it is mostly in talking among us, not actually pushy actions yet), the less he'll cooperate. We are expecting a new baby in early 2011 and I do think though that if he is not out of diapers by then, he won't be for at least another year. The new baby will need some getting used to, say at least 6-8 months, and then potty learning? I highly doubt it somehow. He's so stubborn. Are there any other gentle ways to encourage him? I already do all those things about explaining, showing, offering...

[CrunchyChristianMama]

So when he's naked he doesn't have accidents, but asks for a diaper to use? If so, I would recommend showing him how many diapers are left for him to use and let him know that he can pick when he uses them, but that when they are gone he will need to use the potty instead. Let him know he is welcome to try out the potty instead of the diapers if he wants to practice on it, but that there are only X amount of diapers left.

I'm personally really, really glad we potty trained my DD before the new baby came. It's such a relief to only have one in diapers.

[EdnaMarie]

Here's the thing.

The tension from your DH's side will not go away. At the same time, you can't force DS to go. No matter what. You can take the most authoritatian, pushing stance, and try everything in the book, but if he doesn't want to, he won't. Period. It's like sleeping. I know of a very sad case of a family that used a PADDLE ( ) and their son still wasn't trained at 4.5. He just dug his heels in. I also know families that wait and wait and have kids that cannot go to pre-school because of it and that sucks.

Here is what I think is the most gentle technique. But you have to be ready for it.

As Elizabeth said, prepare him for the loss of diapers.

Then be ready. He may have accidents in his pants a LOT. Do not go back to diapers. Not after one day, not after one week, not after a month. Every time, repeat CALMLY, "Ooops, you had an accident. Maybe next time it will go in the potty."

Be prepared to do this for months. It may not take months. It might. Being prepared for a long wait will take the stress off.

If he waits when naked, keep his bottoms off at home. Encourage him to pee on the toilet by running the water. Have him wash his hands before a try (it makes everyone have to pee, hands in warm water). Remain calm. Do this routinely: upon waking, before leaving the house, before eating. Time to pee. Routine, calm, just "this is how it is and it may take you time, but we'll wait for you."

He will get it.

OTOH I know some people will say training at three and four is normal and to wait. I must tell you that I do not believe this because I've lived in countries where the norm is 18 months to two years but rarely later. It would take a lot to change my mind on this. So in that sense I'm coming from your DH's perspective.

However I do think it must be gentle, calm, gradual and you must be prepared to go on his time.

There will be accidents and that is okay.

That's my message and I'll shut up now. LOL!

(Elizabeth... I love your girls' names. Annabelle is so pretty and I know a woman Annabelle who is one of the most beautiful, intelligent, kind people I know. :heart

[dejagerw]

You may want to check out the book "Stress Free Potty Training"

http://www.amazon.com/Stress-Free-Po.../dp/0814401627

There's a good section in the book that talks about the average time boys and girls hit each stage of potty independence. It might relax your husband a bit when he realizes your LO isn't really far behind.

Also, if you don't get your LO potty trained before the new one arrives, maybe you could try elimination communication (at least part-time) with your new LO. You DS might be motivated to go on the potty if he sees his mom, dad AND little sibling use it.

Good luck!

[sapphire_chan]

And if he is still in diapers *and/or regresses with the new baby) my guess is that after he's used to the baby he'll go right to using the potty and won't really have a learning period.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

OTOH I know some people will say training at three and four is normal and to wait. I must tell you that I do not believe this because I've lived in countries where the norm is 18 months to two years but rarely later.

In your experience, are people more tolerant of kids having potty accidents in those countries? I know that worry about public accidents is a big part of what's keeping me anxious about going diaper-free with DD.

[lifeguard]

EdnaMarie said it so well!

Have you been putting ds on the potty at regular intervals? Especially times you know he will need to go like first thing in the morning or after nap? Will he ever go on the potty in this instances?

My experience with ds is that he will pretty much never say yes if I "offer" the potty. But if I phrase it more like "ok, now it's time to sit on the potty" he (usually) goes along with & is successful. We're at the point now that he does ask to go but I still keep a fairly regular schedule of potty trips beyond when he asks: first thing in the morning, after nap, before we leave the house, upon returning to the house & first thing when we get somewhere (this is generally more so he knows there is in fact a toilet available).

[dejagerw]

Originally Posted by lifeguard

My experience with ds is that he will pretty much never say yes if I "offer" the potty. But if I phrase it more like "ok, now it's time to sit on the potty" he (usually) goes along with & is successful.

Exactly the same with my son.

[tangledblue]

Have you tried potty books/videos with him? Elmo's potty or any others?

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

In your experience, are people more tolerant of kids having potty accidents in those countries? I know that worry about public accidents is a big part of what's keeping me anxious about going diaper-free with DD.

I have found that people are very tolerant of accidents in very small children in the West, too. I mean, I did carry a towel and sanitizer with me and I was extra-vigilant in public (always taking her potty before shopping trips, offering a bribe if she produced--only before shopping because accidents in groceries are really unappetizing), but accidents happen. Everyone knows that.

I think they would be MORE judgmental of a five-year-old with accidents, and guess what. You can wait forever but whenever you train there *will* be accidents. There. Will. Children that train perfectly in one or three days are rare. So your choice is not, accidents or not. Your choice is: accidents at one, at two, at three, at four, at five, or beyond. THAT is the choice.

It's exactly the same in public as at home, unless you are in a medical facility or restaurant. If the child is having a ton of accidents, waterproof training pants may be in order in these areas.

Otherwise, just "oops, looks like we didn't plan ahead, maybe next time!" Wipe up any spill with sanitizer, inform staff if necessary (sorry my toddler had an accident, my apologies, they can sanitize if required), go to bathroom and change toddler.

Most of the time it will stay in the pants so accidents in public aren't a big deal.

[Megan73]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Be prepared to do this for months. It may not take months. It might. Being prepared for a long wait will take the stress off.

This sounds so much worse than diapers to me.
I have a 26 month old (boy, and I think it makes a big difference) and, we hope, a new baby coming in February and I'm just not stressing about potty learning. I'd rather change two sets of diapers than PL in winter, clean up accidents and constantly change clothes and bed linens during a high-risk pregnancy and then with a newborn.
DS has also shown zero awareness of when he's peeing or pooing or interest in the potty.
His DCP startled me when she told me that she doesn't start PL until three - then it takes less than a week - because she finds most kids aren't reliably accident-free until then anyway.
I'm am hoping she'll agree to start in May or so instead of after DS's birthday in August because I think it's important we have the same routine at DC and home.

[EdnaMarie]

This sounds so much worse than diapers to me.

It might never happen overnight, though. This may be your fate *no matter when you do it*.

I'm am hoping she'll agree to start in May or so

What if she doesn't? Some kids never bring it up. Read the threads on MDC.

His DCP startled me when she told me that she doesn't start PL until three - then it takes less than a week - because she finds most kids aren't reliably accident-free until then anyway.

If she's got the magic down, great.

I hope it works. In my experience, accidents happen among nearly all children once and awhile.

However, I do think if it's in a social environment where all the kids are using the potty, you have a massive advantage.

Without that social momentum, though, I would not advice choosing a magical date and starting then. Most children are physically ready by a year to two years, and anything beyond that is merely social readiness--they understand it's not appropriate to pee on the floor. Which may also never happen until after many, many accidents.

[EzzysMom]

My DD was very in and out of the interest in the potty at that age. She knew the idea, but if she got at all distracted she just totally forgot. She is very very stubborn too. I continued to offer her the chance to go while diapering her and offering underwear. Then once she got better with the underwear and chose it herself, I'd just put it on unless she asked for the diaper. With statements like "maybe next time you'll want to wear the underwear". And now at almost 2.5 she's suddenly decided to run with it, all the time (except for sleeping). And she'll actually sit on the potty when asked, this is very new. It otherwise had to be her idea previously. For a long time she was most excited about the potty when we were out and about to get to see new potties and couldn't care less about it at home.

You can bring the kid to the potty, but you can't make them pee. (or sit as in my case)

A big part of what I'd credit to my success is making it easy to clean up messes. Not allow her on the couch, and put down a pad (http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...tegoryId=86184) in the stroller and car seat. Also knowing your limits, if you're too frustrated, soemtimes the diaper goes back on. I have a one accident rule, if she has one, the diaper goes on until we're home again. Unfortunately your DH is going to need to chill, because it sounds like your kid is like mine and stress makes it worse.

Oh and I was due with my baby last week, so this is all happening right around the same time as baby, we'll see if it sticks or not.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

I have found that people are very tolerant of accidents in very small children in the West, too. I mean, I did carry a towel and sanitizer with me and I was extra-vigilant in public (always taking her potty before shopping trips, offering a bribe if she produced--only before shopping because accidents in groceries are really unappetizing), but accidents happen. Everyone knows that.

I think they would be MORE judgmental of a five-year-old with accidents, and guess what. You can wait forever but whenever you train there *will* be accidents. There. Will. Children that train perfectly in one or three days are rare. So your choice is not, accidents or not. Your choice is: accidents at one, at two, at three, at four, at five, or beyond. THAT is the choice.

It's exactly the same in public as at home, unless you are in a medical facility or restaurant. If the child is having a ton of accidents, waterproof training pants may be in order in these areas.

Otherwise, just "oops, looks like we didn't plan ahead, maybe next time!" Wipe up any spill with sanitizer, inform staff if necessary (sorry my toddler had an accident, my apologies, they can sanitize if required), go to bathroom and change toddler.

Most of the time it will stay in the pants so accidents in public aren't a big deal.

: towel, sanitizer
: people tolerant
: bribe for trying potty before entering store...maybe I'll use calling her grandma for that one

We don't have accidents often, even when she's just in undies, and I think that's part of my problem, I'm just not used to them. She also looks younger than she is and I think I'm afraid of being *that* mom who tries to claim her kid can use the potty at a super early age and meanwhile the kid is peeing on everything.

Pee doesn't stay in the pants.

DD's had pooping figured out for ages, that's why it's been kind of frustrating to still be thinking about pee for all this time. (Does she need to go? When did she last go? Does she really mean it when she says she doesn't have to go? etc etc) At home I can just slip her pants off and slide a potty under her butt if I'm pretty sure she has to go.

Oh, and my worry about people being critical of accidents is also fueled by seeing a lot of older kids in pull-ups. We were at the park and there were about 8 kids from age 2-5 and dd was the only one in undies. So I was paranoid about asking if she needed the potty (she's very good at saying she has to go if I ask when she's got a nearly full bladder) because what if she peed on the slide or something? A towel and sanitizer will really help me relax for that.

[EdnaMarie]

I think I'm afraid of being *that* mom who tries to claim her kid can use the potty at a super early age and meanwhile the kid is peeing on everything.

I tell people we do gradual potty training. "Sorry, it's just that it takes a lot of kids a year or more to learn the potty, so we start early and go gradually, and this is part of the learning process."

I can only hope that that does not sound too self-congratulatory or in-denial.

I feel it validates the experience of the many, many families that do train early, as well as those that have late-training children.

Oh, and my worry about people being critical of accidents is also fueled by seeing a lot of older kids in pull-ups.

I find this trend worrying because I do NOT think disposable diapers are good for toilet training. I guess I just don't care because I'm so utterly convinced that this is not a good trend and I believe it will reverse very soon. Kids need to feel wet, they need to realize the connection between what they sense in their bladder, in their pants, and their responsibility to public hygeine, in order to be fully trained. It is unfortunate if parents are being told that delaying and delaying is somehow necessary for a normally-developing child.

After all, those kids are all touching heaven knows what parts of their bodies and then sticking their hands all over the equipment. It's far from sterile! Not that I would not take an accident seriously. I would.

But it's not like pooping on a restaurant table.

Re: pee not staying in the pants: about half of it, IME, is absorbed and while pee is not clean after passing through that area, it's not like it's dirtier than little hands that have recently been stuck down a diaper and then feel the need to touch every single can on beans on the bottom shelf.

Yep, seen it happen, mom didn't see it and why should she? Child was quiet, following, and well-behaved. She was looking at the list. That's life, that's kids.

You could also bring Clorox wipes so people would *know* you are serious about the hygeine side. I normally don't buy them but I would if it made people feel better about it.

[CrunchyChristianMama]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

I find this trend worrying because I do NOT think disposable diapers are good for toilet training. I guess I just don't care because I'm so utterly convinced that this is not a good trend and I believe it will reverse very soon. Kids need to feel wet, they need to realize the connection between what they sense in their bladder, in their pants, and their responsibility to public hygeine, in order to be fully trained. It is unfortunate if parents are being told that delaying and delaying is somehow necessary for a normally-developing child.

I (unfortunately) don't think it's a trend that's going anywhere. I have a friend who has a one-year-old who was so excited and shared on her blog that both Pampers and Huggies have free giveaways (pull-ups, dvds, training guides) to help with potty training. It was hard for me to not respond that I'm sure they have great ideas on how to need to buy their products until your child is 10.

[nia82]

Great input, thanks! DS is sick now, but when he feels better, we'll resume.
I don't care about accidents, they happen, they're toddlers/kids!

DH and I talked about it, and he just pushes it too hard sometimes. Like making DS sit on the potty for 2 minutes, but he hates it... Since he does ask for diaper changes though these days I guess I have to catch a good moment and the right bribe, lol.

[bonamarq]

You can wait forever but whenever you train there *will* be accidents. There. Will. Children that train perfectly in one or three days are rare. So your choice is not, accidents or not. Your choice is: accidents at one, at two, at three, at four, at five, or beyond. THAT is the choice.

Is it really that rare? I KNOW my dd 'could' have been potty trained at about 2 but she refused and I refused to make it a power struggle - in a matter of fact way I asked her at 2.75 yrs "when" will you wear underwear? She matter of factly replied "when I'm three" and true to her word at exactly three she put on her panties and NEVER.HAD.AN. ACCIDENT. (one exception was at day care when she couldn't be first before going outside and then declared she didn't have to go

I think so much of this HAS to be the kids doing - taking away the diapers will work, eventually, but only when he finally decides to get on board and you have to know your child's temperament to get an idea of how long that will take - I'm not saying this is not a good idea - I used cloth and was just fine waiting for dd to make that call - but I didn't have a little one on the way either

good luck

also - there do seem to be 'windows' of opportunity and if you miss them there is a huge chunk of time between the next one - he seems like he is now in one of those earlier windows so you may want to go with it...

[sapphire_chan]

For staying on the potty for a bit, it really helps to have something entertaining. E.g. he sits down to build with blocks, you grab the little potty (baby bjorn little potty and the ikea potty are both great for this) and slip it under him.

We also have a drawer of books in our bathroom (in our previous bathroom we kept them stacked on toilet tank).

And if I think she needs to go, I'll often have dd sit on her little potty at her toddler table (13" high) for eating a snack.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by bonamarq

Is it really that rare?

In my experience, it is, at least before 3.5 or four, when a child's social and planning skills are substantially more developed.

I do know people who did the "magic results" methods. However, there's no way to tell ahead of time whether that will be your kid or not, and it does seem like it never happens to anyone I personally know, so I wouldn't take the chance.