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How many people use boosters for their 7-9 year olds? - Page 5

post #81 of 99
Haven't read all the responses yet, but I had to laugh reading the first couple who said my child's in a booster but is on the small side. My son, age 7, is in a booster and he's in the 99% for height. But he still needs a booster.

I also require his friends to sit in the spare booster in our car when they ride with me. It's clear that he is one of the only ones.

I personally don't know why you wouldn't. A booster is easily portable. They sit higher and can see more out the window. I just don't understand what makes them so undesirable.

I can understand not wanting to mess with a big heavy seat or getting a car seat fit every time you child goes with someone else. But really, a booster seat is very easy to use and both of mine will be using one until they fit right in the seat.

I'm thinking next summer when my son is 8 he's likely to be fitting in some seats properly. But even in the 99% for height I'm not positive of that.
post #82 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
NC state law does not specify an age or size to which children must be harnessed, but does specify proper use.
No, no, no! I meant this, not a 5-point harness. I just could not think of the name of it when I posted about it upthread:

Quote:
5-step test (and it's all or nothing -- 80% is not passing):
~ shoulder belt crossing between neck and arm, not riding up on neck
~ lap belt crossing low on hips and thighs, not riding up on belly
~ back and buttocks against seat crease
~ knees bending at edge of seat (and preferably feet resting on floor)
~ able to maintain position for the entire trip
Sorry for the confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post
Do your children ever leave the house? Do you take them on unnecessary car trips - to playgroups, museums, parks, etc.? Are they allowed to use bikes, skates, or sleds, or go swimming? Will they be allowed to date or go out alone with friends when they're teenagers? If you answered yes to any of those questions, then you're not doing everything you could to keep your kids safe. But that's perfectly reasonable, because staying safe is not the most important thing in life.
It is, to me.
No, my son never leaves the house. We live on a thru-street that is very dangerous, with no sidewalks. I don't even leave the house. Except by car.
I don't consider those kinds of trips unnecessary, but we occasionally do those things.
He is allowed to bike and skate and in NC, helmets are required by law for those things.
I make him wear his helmet both biking and skateboarding, and rollerblading when he rarely does that. And I am on him constantly about making sure the helmet covers his forehead. And for skateboarding he wears full gear: knee and elbow pads and wrist guards. And the helmet has to be buckled. For biking also.
As for going out when he's a teen, that depends on his behavior But in my car? He is going to have to deposit the full deductable of my insurance policy in my bank account before I'll even consider letting him drive my car. And he will be taking a driver's ed course, for sure. I am still using things I learned in that class, which I took at age 16, and I'm 50 now.

Sledding, no-- not enough snow. But if there was, he'd wear a helmet doing that, too.
Swimming-- only with a certified lifeguard. One that pays attention to the swimmers. Once we were at a lake we often go to, and the young man lifeguarding paid no attention to the water-- he was too busy listening to his boombox and preening. We left and I reported him. So did other parents, apparently, because he got fired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
I realize some people will find this excessive. That's okay. THIS is my parenting hill-to-die-on. I let her buy school lunch when she wants (ours is better than many, but it's still not like what I'd make at home). She gets computer time nearly every day. But she *will* ride in a booster for years to come.
Yep. That.

Quote:
Originally Posted by just_lily View Post
My kid can ride a bike, but only while wearing a helmet.
She can swim, but only with a lifeguard, or responsible adult present.
When she is old enough to go out on her own, I will expect to know where she is going, who she will be with, and when she will be home.
And when she rides in the car, she will be in a properly fitting and installed car seat or booster until she is large enough to sit in a seat belt, and mature enough to stay that way.

It is not about never doing risky things.... it is about keeping her as safe as possible while still enjoying life.

And if everyone kept their kids in boosters, nobody would get teased because it would just be something that "is". Then all of our kids would be safe, and nobody would be bullied about it.


This is THE BEST post!!! YES! ITA.
post #83 of 99
This is the '5 step' for when its ok to move your child from a 5pt harness into a booster seat:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=38893

Crash test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2kO8AxKbrM


This one is for when you can move your child from a booster to a regular adult seatbelt:

http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm

How a booster should fit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-kjh...eature=related

Crash test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntPksBGDgFI


As for adults: I dont fit into many seatbelts properly either, but the difference between me and an 8-9-10-11yr old is that I've gone through puberty and therefore have better developed hip bones that hold up in a crash more than a younger child's would.

Also, the 'belt across the neck' is the least amount of worry as far as the 5-step test. The main issue with the seatbelt cutting across the neck is that kids may decide its uncomfortable and put it under their arm, behind them, or off their shoulder making the seatbelt unsafe. So, for adults its may be annoying, but its not really a safety concern.

My son is super tiny, he is 3 and 25# and 35" (guessing on his height, he is just under 3'). He is rearfacing in his seat right now obviously, but when he goes into a booster, he will stay in one until he either a. passes the 5-step test, or b. goes through puberty AND passes most of the 5-step test, the main point being the belt fit across the lap. Although, if he doesnt complain he will stay in the booster until he passes all of the 5-step.

For those going by 'the law' alone, remember that the law is the bare minimum for safety standard, and in many states isnt even even close to the minimum as recommended by carseat techs and supported by crash test evidence.
My child is NOT a minimum.
post #84 of 99
My 9.5 yo is not in a booster-she's really tall, though. My 8.5 yo son is in the high back booster still, though.
post #85 of 99
My daughters are 7 and 8, and both are in boosters. The only person who has ever given them grief over it is their GRANDMOTHER. They don't ride in a car with her anymore.
post #86 of 99
First, I would like to remind everyone to remain calm when discussing car-seat safety. I understand it is a real passion for many people, but direct attacks are never permissable. Some posts have been right on the edge of "okay"--- I would hate to close the thread.



Quote:
Originally Posted by leighi123 View Post
This is the '5 step' for when its ok to move your child from a 5pt harness into a booster seat:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=38893
I hate examples of one size fits all:

Quote:
Cognitive ability associated with the necessary attention span to use a booster correctly does not even begin to develop until at least 4 years old.
This makes me My son had the cognitive ability to sit still and play chess at barely 2, he definetly had the necessary attention span to sit in a booster at the same age (he didn't sit in a booster, but not everyone has the same attention span and to say that it is impossible just annoys me).

Both of my children are out of boosters at this point. DD is 5'2.5" and over 100 lbs. She was in a booster through 4th grade and then transitioned out. We didn't have her take her booster on field trips in 4th grade. While she still fit in the booster when we took her out, I felt she was safer without. She was getting to a height where she seemed top-heavy in a low-backed booster--- she looked extremly likely to hit her head on the window if jarred from the side. She had no problem passing the 5 point test in the van.

DS transitioned out of a booster over the summer. He turned 9 at the end of the summer. He is NOT tall. He is about 4'5" and 65 lbs. I had explained to him why he still needed the booster (passing the 5 point test). He then proceeded to experiment and realized if he sat in the middle seat in the middle row of our (8-passenger) van he could easily pass the 5 point test. So, he asked if he sat there all the time, could he go without a booster. And I agreed. And, logically, since he can pass the test he is SAFER without the booster than with (because that seat is thinner than the other seats, it goes captains seat,middle, captains) we never put a booster there BUT the middle seat in the middle row is the furthest from any car sides making it safer.

So, I had an 8 year old who was not in a booster. And I don't regret it at all. While, IRL, virtually no one questioned my decision to have him sit without a booster (well, two of my friends did because they know I am into car safety and make *their* kids ride in boosters in my car, lol) I wish that the people on line would consider that my decision MAY have been an actual decision and not just a mindless conformity thing.
post #87 of 99
The law here is minimum 8 years old or 80 lbs or 4 foot 9 inches. Mine will be in a child seat until at least the minimums of the law. Right now they are all in convertibles, My 4 year old rearfacing, 2.5 year old rearfacing, 14 month old rearfacing and 5 year old harnessed forward facing. I know some who don't even have their kids harnessed at 2, I know some who forward faced at 6 monthes, I know some who skip the car seat altogether. these are parents who love their kids and want them to be safe but just choose to do what is easy. I don't care if it is not easy will be doing the safest as long as I can.
post #88 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyGG View Post
Haven't read all the responses yet, but I had to laugh reading the first couple who said my child's in a booster but is on the small side. My son, age 7, is in a booster and he's in the 99% for height. But he still needs a booster...I'm thinking next summer when my son is 8 he's likely to be fitting in some seats properly. But even in the 99% for height I'm not positive of that.

I think this way when I see some of my son's Pre-K classmates riding in their parents' cars without even a booster. My DS is 4.5 years old, ~54lbs and ~47" tall. He is THE biggest kid in his class and he's still in a harnessed seat.

I bought the Frontier specifically because I knew he would be big but still need a harnessed seat. As a matter of fact, I just switched his seat over from LATCH to the seatbelt (what a freakin' PAIN!!!) and adjusted his straps. (The Frontier makes the strap adjustment super easy as long as the seat is not secured.)

He's looking forward to the day when he can use the grown-up seatbelts. He has friends who use LBB and thinks that is SO COOL! We had a bit of a chat about it ending with "I am not Morgan's Mom; I am YOUR Mom."
post #89 of 99
My 11 year old twins are still in boosters, one in a LB Clek and one in a HB Parkway because they had different comfort needs. They are tiny and we kid that they will need them when they are in high school. My 8 year old just transitioned out of a Frontier into a HBB. My 5 year old will inherit the Frontier-everyone is jealous because it is so comfy. I like it because he can stay in a 5 point harness-he is in no way capable of sitting still all of the time as is necessary with a booster.
If I could have gotten away without boosters, I would have. We have to fit 5 carseats/boosters in my 7 passenger Sienna. The kids don't fit well in the seats without them yet, though.
post #90 of 99
DS just stopped using his booster this week, when I checked how he fit in both the vehicle seatbelts (yup, he fits now) and the HBB (oops, his shoulders are too high and I can't raise the booster anymore.) He's about 4'7", but most of his height is in his torso, not his legs. He's too tall for the turbobooster.
post #91 of 99
Son is 6.5 and sits FF in a hbb which he loves. Daughter is 4 years 2 months and sits RF, sometimes FF in a hbb.

Quote:
Cognitive ability associated with the necessary attention span to use a booster correctly does not even begin to develop until at least 4 years old.
This is obviously not correct. When using a high back booster it's important to have a good belt fit. Very small children might therefore not fit well at this age but it's unusual. Being 4 and sitting properly in a booster is not difficult.

Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.

We also know that high back boosters are just as safe as harnessed seats for older kids, 4 and older. The Swedes who are 30 years ahead in car seat safety actually recommend against using any harnessed seats ff for safety reasons. Researchers never focus on harness vs. hbb simply because they know safety is similar.

Swedes move 4-years olds from RF to FF hbb around age 4 and the safety record can only be described as unbelievable.

Personally, I think the law is far from relevant (often also way behind and confusing). One should of course follow the law but exceed it. Parents here could forward face at any age, even at 6 months according to the law. Instead they keep them RF until age 4 or longer.

The law is the absolute minimum and often offer very poor protection for children.
post #92 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
This is obviously not correct. When using a high back booster it's important to have a good belt fit. Very small children might therefore not fit well at this age but it's unusual. Being 4 and sitting properly in a booster is not difficult...

...I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.
I have a very active 4.5 yr old son who sits properly in his harnessed seat (Britax Frontier) and probably would sit properly in a HBB except for when he wouldn't. Kids are kids and will bend down to pick up something they drop in the car, or will fall asleep or will wiggle or...or...or... They are children and aren't always going to sit absolutely properly all the time.

Keeping my son in his harness is for the one freak time when he is not sitting absolutely perfectly and we have a crash; his life is worth way more to me than...well, anything. If he's alive, we can work through potential teasing by his friends. If he's alive, we can have his bones mended. If he's alive, he can learn to sit properly in a HBB.

I think your assertion that this is poor parenting is offensive and a cop-out, to be frank. You will never convince me that a HBB is as safe as a harnessed seat; NEVER. There are just too many variables involved with a HBB that can be eliminated with a harness so why wouldn't you?
post #93 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

I have what can only be described as the world's most active 4-year old girl who hates to sit still. Having her sit properly in a hbb has required almost no effort. She knows we sit properly in a car seat, regardless if it's RF or FF, and she follows that advice.
I find this very judgemental. I know of many children who are wonderfully parented and are wonderful to be around who just don't have the consistent impulse control to sit in a HBB at age 4. At 4, my children (intellectually gifted and calm and centered) were still falling asleep in the van. My daughter is 6 and finally hit 40 pounds. In almost any HBB (few exceptions), she would submarine under the seatbelt due to her size and shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
We also know that high back boosters are just as safe as harnessed seats for older kids, 4 and older. The Swedes who are 30 years ahead in car seat safety actually recommend against using any harnessed seats ff for safety reasons. Researchers never focus on harness vs. hbb simply because they know safety is similar.
Actually, we don't know this. There are not studies showing this. We don't know either way. Stating that researchers don't focus on something because they already know it is not true. That would be extremely poor science. Research is not conducted when it isn't funded. Again, I ask you to provide the study, evidence, something, and I will gladly read it and check out the science behind it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Swedes move 4-years olds from RF to FF hbb around age 4 and the safety record can only be described as unbelievable.
Correlation does not guarantee causation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Personally, I think the law is far from relevant (often also way behind and confusing). One should of course follow the law but exceed it. Parents here could forward face at any age, even at 6 months according to the law. Instead they keep them RF until age 4 or longer.

The law is the absolute minimum and often offer very poor protection for children.
I agree with this. Best practice is much more important than legal minimums.
post #94 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post

Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat. Harness might be loose, installation poor and unsafe, etc. It's not as easy as getting a harnessed seat and safety will suddenly be perfect.

Look, this is just patently untrue. I have a 5 year old who still regularly falls asleep in the car - it's not a parenting issue that he might fall asleep and slump over and not be position correctly in a high back booster (also sort of irrelevant as he isn't 40 lbs yet and can't use most boosters based on that fact alone, but his height and weight isn't related to his ability to stay awake in the car). Are there some four year olds that can sit correctly in a booster most of the time? Sure - my daughter outgrew her harnessed seat by weight and height well before 4 years old (she was an still is a tall child, and we couldn't afford a higher weight harnessed seat) and we switched her to a high back booster. We've never had a problem with her sitting correctly in the seat. But saying a four year old who won't sit still in the car or unfastens their seatbelt or falls asleep or drops a toy and impulsively bends over to grab it does so because their parent has a problem with "basic parenting" is not only untrue, but insulting.
post #95 of 99
My 7 yr old is in a 5 pt harness and will be for as long as I can afford to keep him in one regardless of his weight or height.

BUT Fwiw he isn't neurotypical
post #96 of 99
My 20 year old sister still uses a booster to drive. She doesn't pass the 5 step in most vehicle seats. I don't think she rides in a booster because she's too embarrassed but she drives with one. I'm the most lax person I know WRT seatbelts/carseats, etc. My 6 yo dd and my 3.5 yo ds are in high back boosters. I'll agree that 3.5 is way young for most kids to be in a booster. When we will be in the car for trips longer than an hour I borrow a seat and harness him, but for trips less than that he sits 100%. The main reason I'd borrow that seat is because the only time we drive for more than an hour would be to go to the beach 4 hours away and we leave at night. He'll fall asleep. My 1 yo dd is still RF and will until she hits 35 lbs (she's 26 now, so we've got a ways). Once she out grows that, she'll be in a hbb. I'm 5'7 and can't get the seatbelt to properly position across my chest. I've got huge knockers.
post #97 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
Having children sit decently in a high back booster is a questions about basic parenting. There are certainly many parents who let their kids sit poorly in their hbb's. Our experience is that these parents also have large safety problem if using a harnessed FF seat.
Wow, that's pretty judgmental. I have a 5 year old who cannot sit decently in a booster, and I can assure you I know how to install her harnessed seat (which, BTW, is RF, but I digress). I do not "let her" sit poorly in her booster. She is simply not mature enough to not wriggle around. I suspect she'll be ready by around 6, which is very average in terms of booster readiness. No child under four is ever ready for a booster, ever, regardless of height or weight or 'cognitive ability'.
post #98 of 99
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
Sometime after puberty. As I wrote upthread, developed (internal/skeletal, not external/curvy) hips help hold the lap belt where it needs to be during a crash. I would allow my child to ride without a booster a few years after puberty. Otherwise, I would let her use the funky zebra-striped or pink leopard backless after age 10 or so.

ETA: I realize some people will find this excessive. That's okay. THIS is my parenting hill-to-die-on. I let her buy school lunch when she wants (ours is better than many, but it's still not like what I'd make at home). She gets computer time nearly every day. But she *will* ride in a booster for years to come.
I really like this. I feel the same way and you just helped make it clear to me.
By the way, do backless booster expire as well?
post #99 of 99
Ds rode in a booster until 8 1/2. At 8 1/2 he passed the 5 step test, even though he was only 4'7". His height is in his torso, and our car is on the small side so his feet hit the floor. He had outgrown the booster. He actually was a little sad because he liked how the booster let him see better.

Dd is only 6 1/2, but will be in a booster for a good number of years. She's only 4'1" and I can't see her hitting 4'9" in the next 2-3 years. She's long in the torso like her brother, but not as tall.

Actually, ds is in the 92% for height and he just hit 4'9" this month! So, if my tall 9 1/2 year old is just 4'9" that tells me that most 9-10 year olds should be riding in a booster.
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