one gifted and one average.

[vivica2]

hello! im new.

i have a very intelligent 4 year old boy, and an average 2.5 year old girl. they look like twins, my son is short, and my DD is tall, so they always get lumped into doing things together (by me, grandmas, playgroup etc..)


DS has not been tested but i have no doubt that he is above average. HE ADORES his Montessori school that he is newly enrolled in, and i have seen a complete 180 in his behavior problems. he started putting letters together (reading) at his 2 year check. (side note: i didnt even know he could, after the normal check..the doctor very gently and mildly asked if i had had him tested in any school format..i panicked thinking something was wrong and she just sat down with him and wrote 'hat' and he looked at her and said 'hat' i started crying of coarse...scared for both of us...and guilty that i hadn't even noticed!)

i had trouble in school, but DH is gifted, (im more artsy) and i believe DD is like me. she cant sit still through a simple book she gets fidgety and wants to dance or sing. beautiful of corse, but i feel its holding DS back. i have taken to putting her down first, and reading the chapter books DS asks for after she goes down. any other suggestions?

i dont want DD to be left out, because believe me, i know what that feels like (my siblings weren't gifted, but 2 of 3 of them were high achievers) i always felt like "the dumb sibling" and i would never want DD to feel like that. *sigh* how do i keep her happy and fulfilled, without DS suffering and being held back?

BTW #3 due in may.

[MeepyCat]

Don't assume your DD's not gifted. Siblings most often have IQs within ten points of each other.

What your DD is right now is more kinetic than your DS. It's totally fine to wear her out and put her to bed first (she *is* younger, after all). There's also nothing wrong with setting her up with something to do and settling down to read with your DS, letting DD listen or try to join in as and when she's interested.

Also, don't assume that giftedness is proof against trouble in school. It can be a different kind of challenge.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by vivica2

i had trouble in school, but DH is gifted, (im more artsy) and i believe DD is like me.

I think they are both WAY to young to decide what they are like. You are putting them in little boxes, and that won't be helpful to either of them.

she cant sit still through a simple book she gets fidgety and wants to dance or sing.

my gifted 12 year old was like that at 2. She liked to be read to while doing something else, like coloring or playing with playdough.

beautiful of corse, but i feel its holding DS back. i have taken to putting her down first, and reading the chapter books DS asks for after she goes down. any other suggestions?

It's good for kids to know they aren't the center of the universe. If you could every single thing you son wanted every single minute he wanted you to, he'd just grow up to be self-centered.

It's also good for kids to learn to amuse themselves for short periods of time.

Reading to kids to great, and we still read outloud every day. But a child's IQ kinda is what it is, and we don't have to make the world revolved around enriching them. Balance, balance, balance.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

Don't assume your DD's not gifted. Siblings most often have IQs within ten points of each other.

What your DD is right now is more kinetic than your DS. It's totally fine to wear her out and put her to bed first (she *is* younger, after all). There's also nothing wrong with setting her up with something to do and settling down to read with your DS, letting DD listen or try to join in as and when she's interested.

Also, don't assume that giftedness is proof against trouble in school. It can be a different kind of challenge.

Ditto this.

I would not, could not decide if a 2.5 yr old is gifted or not at this point.

My twins at 2.5 has some delays. One had multiple physical therapies and occupational therapies from age 10 m to 4.75 years.

They are both suspected to be gifted. They BOTH present differently (one is very very verbal and a deep thinker---the other was a very early reader/writer). They also have different personalities (one is an introvert w/ short attention span and a craving for lots of movement & the other is an extrovert with a long long attention span ).

Gifted kids also can have trouble in school due to boredom, hyperactivity, perfectionism,lack of creative outlets, and all the same reasons non-gifted kids do.

At 2.5 and 4--play and let them pursue their interests as much as possible. The fact that they are 2 years apart and different genders will make it easier to 'not' compare them as they get older (though comparisons will occur).

I would not attach any labels on them as this point---developmentally they may both change greatly or have different strengths/weaknesses.

[zinemama]

I guess I really don't see this situation as having to do with giftedness. To me it's about age difference. I read my 4yo chapter books. And yeah, his little brother had no patience with them. He was 2! Naturally he wanted to run around and such. So of course I saved the chapter books for when little brother was taking his nap.

I didn't feel that by doing this I was "holding back" my older child or failing to "fulfill" my younger one by doing activities with him that were appropriate to his age and interests.

I think your best bet is not to assume anything about such young kids and just go on meeting their individual needs.

[eepster]

I would say that the heart of the problem is that you are expecting one child who is almost half the age of another child to act the same way as the older child. I have no idea if one, both or neither of your DC is/are gifted, but they are different individuals with a currently significant age difference.

[vivica2]

thanks for the replies ladies!

i am confused abotu one thing. why is 4 to early to start seeing giftedness? many of you have 3-4 year old on this bored. im not saying my child for sure is, but isnt now a good time to start to see it?

[moominmamma]

I don't think anyone said "you can't see giftedness in a 4-year-old." You can certainly develop a pretty high level of suspicion of giftedness in some 4-year-olds. People are just pointing out to you that there are a million ways to be gifted, so just because your 2.5-year-old isn't doing what your older child was doing at that age doesn't mean she's not gifted in her own way.

Miranda

[eepster]

Originally Posted by vivica2

i am confused abotu one thing. why is 4 to early to start seeing giftedness? many of you have 3-4 year old on this bored. im not saying my child for sure is, but isnt now a good time to start to see it?

My DS is 4 yo also. I see many things from him that lead me to believe that gifted is likely. Preschool teachers have even brought the word out occasionally. I certainly have educational decisions I have to make right now (not years from now) that relate to the possibility of him being gifted. It is often awkward to talk about some of the stuff going on in our lives outside this board, so this board is an outlet for that. Most of the advice I share is based on my own experience with gifted programs and such inn school, and my understanding of being 2E and a V/S thinker (this board tends to be weighted heavily to the verbally gifted A/S thinker.)

I don't call DS "gifted." When I need to call him something, I usually say "academically precocious." Generally a child as academically precocious as DS will end up testing gifted once that time comes, but really it is too early for that. If he does level out and by 3rd grade or so is just a bright verbal kid, I won't have regretted my time on this board.

Though DS is not technically gifted, since he isn't in a school yet where it matters (he is in a Montessori preschool, where he can work at his own pace) I find myself needing this board. In part, it is the easiest place to talk openly about DS and his needs. In part, it is a place that has helped me think about some of my own issues with my complex childhood. Occasionally, it is just really interesting to discuss things like the different aspects of read ability.

One of the great things about this board is we don't ask to see those gifted credentials. Personally, I would rather see parents here who think their in reality perfectly average kid is gifted, than be amongst those who say their kid who qualifies for gifted placement in school doesn't really belong there. Kids tend to live up to or down to the expectations we put on them.

I think what you are really seeing here, isn't so much that we don't think your DS is gifted, as we think it is a bad idea to put your kids into categories yet. While we don't really know if your DS is gifted or not, we do know that if your DS does indeed turn out to be gifted in the future, then it makes it more likely that your DD is gifted too. It is too young to decide that your DS is gifted, but you may indeed be seeing signs now. More importantly though, is it is way way way to young to say your DD isn't gifted just b/c you aren't seeing major signs.

Many gifted kids, especially mathematically gifted V/S thinker, are late bloomers in terms of giftedness.

[confustication]

I'm trying to think of activities that couldn't be scaled for both kids- that would be developmentally appropriate at those ages.

*Reading a story aloud- let her wander off when she is through.
*Go for a walk in the woods- let the kids lead the way in terms of what they want to discover
*Art projects- provide the materials- let them go- no expectations.
*Dance - put on some music, sing and dance along

At four, or two, there is no need to worry about reading or writing- it's time for them to have fun and learn about the world.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by eepster

My DS is 4 yo also. I see many things from him that lead me to believe that gifted is likely. Preschool teachers have even brought the word out occasionally. I certainly have educational decisions I have to make right now (not years from now) that relate to the possibility of him being gifted. It is often awkward to talk about some of the stuff going on in our lives outside this board, so this board is an outlet for that. Most of the advice I share is based on my own experience with gifted programs and such inn school, and my understanding of being 2E and a V/S thinker (this board tends to be weighted heavily to the verbally gifted A/S thinker.)

I don't call DS "gifted." When I need to call him something, I usually say "academically precocious." Generally a child as academically precocious as DS will end up testing gifted once that time comes, but really it is too early for that. If he does level out and by 3rd grade or so is just a bright verbal kid, I won't have regretted my time on this board.

Though DS is not technically gifted, since he isn't in a school yet where it matters (he is in a Montessori preschool, where he can work at his own pace) I find myself needing this board. In part, it is the easiest place to talk openly about DS and his needs. In part, it is a place that has helped me think about some of my own issues with my complex childhood. Occasionally, it is just really interesting to discuss things like the different aspects of read ability.

One of the great things about this board is we don't ask to see those gifted credentials. Personally, I would rather see parents here who think their in reality perfectly average kid is gifted, than be amongst those who say their kid who qualifies for gifted placement in school doesn't really belong there. Kids tend to live up to or down to the expectations we put on them.

I think what you are really seeing here, isn't so much that we don't think your DS is gifted, as we think it is a bad idea to put your kids into categories yet. While we don't really know if your DS is gifted or not, we do know that if your DS does indeed turn out to be gifted in the future, then it makes it more likely that your DD is gifted too. It is too young to decide that your DS is gifted, but you may indeed be seeing signs now. More importantly though, is it is way way way to young to say your DD isn't gifted just b/c you aren't seeing major signs.

Many gifted kids, especially mathematically gifted V/S thinker, are late bloomers in terms of giftedness.

Eepster said it well.

No one said that it is not possible that a 3-4 yr old may show signs of giftedness. (we do not know for sure if our girls are---but as stated before, it is suspected by their teachers.)

Giftedness can manifest so many ways. Most of the posters are trying to be supportive and state that the age range of your DC is more of what you are dealing with rather than one 'gifted' and one 'average' child at this point.


Many many many parents have kids at two different developmental stages (both gifted and non gifted kids). It is a dilemma many mommas deal with.

To be honest- it is a good dilemma. Both kids can grow at the same time and get different things from each other. I , in no way, think that an older sibling will get 'held back' by a younger one (or vice versa).

Older siblings learn SO MUCH from the responsibility of a younger sibling (compassion, empathy, patience to name few). They also learn to be good teachers and role models-- many have fascinated audiences in the younger set.

A younger child gets enriched by the higher language and development of the older child. They also get immersed in a pretend world from a siblings point of view.

Most activities can be set up for multi ages (just look at teachers in todays classrooms...they adapt to multi age/multi levels daily).

If you read to the older child---the younger one may not be sitting, but they hear the language and can see the older child reading (which often makes it a desirable thing to do). Or make naptime reading time with an older child. Or have older DC read to younger DC.

At ages 2 & 4 - most activities can be beneficial to both. Play dough, nature walks, letter play, counting, spelling, magnets, sand play, exposure to music and maps....etc.

Do what you can now to make sure that both your DC get experiences they enjoy ( both DC will get a lot out of exploring the siblings interests) and help them appreciate each others talents and the 'competitive' spirit will be downplayed much more......part of of it personality of the kids involved and part of it is how it is approached/presented.

[whatsnextmom]

Skills are just skills. Why a child grabs one earlier than another has to deal with MANY factors, not just smarts. Second borns are notorious for flying under the radar. I certainly wouldn't put you DD in the "not as smart as DS" catergory yet! She's just a different kid and will express her abilities in different ways. My eldest has always been more academic, more driven, more organized. My DS is the social, playful one. Guess what, they both test in the same percentile for IQ!

Try seperating them more or giving your DD something quiet to do during story time. My DS used to play with Legos while I read to DD. Eventually, he started to come up with us.

[quaz]

I tend to phrase it slightly differently.

What I've seen over a number of years, is that with some kids, you can really define them as gifted by the time they are 4. There was no question that my second child was gifted. There were signs before she was a year, far more signs that first year. There was no doubt that she was gifted by the time she was 2 or 3.

In her case, much of it has to do with how she presents. My other child that is almost 4, may or may not be gifted. My oldest child, I assumed she was, BUT she was so utterly different, I couldn't be 100% sure, like I was with my middle child.

I really do think some kids, one can know very early, and other kids one may not know until much later.



I think, though, there are cases where it does become important to start using the word gifted earlier than grade school. I have seen many people over the years that really lowball their child's abilities, and can not see gifted. They may see bright, but they can not see gifted. I'm talking about kiddos that are HG and higher. I think in some of these cases, it is very important to understand that their child is gifted by the time he/she is 4, because it really does impact school choices.

I think one can make the choice to label a different label such as academically precocious, but what it comes down to is that with some very gifted kids, it is important to understand that child NEEDS academics, and to truly understand that no... this isn't just a bright child, but really out there. It becomes important to move past the denial.

Obviously this particular scenario doesn't hit everyone, but it is one case I have seen a number of times, and where I do feel it becomes critical to understand that child is 'gifted' or whatever term one wants to use.



I do whole-heartedly agree about your dd, though. She is 2 1/2, and you are deciding she isn't gifted because she won't listen to books???

My second child that is very gifted, could not listen to books. There were too many things she wanted to do. At 2 1/2, we were in a year long stretch, where the ONLY books she would listen to were Dora books. Before then, she couldn't sit for a book.

With giftedness, you have to look at the whole picture, and not just one facet. Giftedness can look very different from one kid to the next.

I have three kids, two confirmed gifted, and the other only 3. Let me just say, how giftedness presents, looks UTTERLY different in all three of them.

Tammy

[serenbat]

how do i keep her happy and fulfilled, without DS suffering and being held back?

make it crystal clear as they enter school

my DH had to follow in his sister's BIG feet and it caused him major problems!
mostly from others (be it teacher's or family)-the comparison thing really can play on one, avoid it at all costs---may it clear to all the do this they are NOT a like, should not be treated a like, etc.

often this does happen, separate activities and making sure the best you can that one does not have the same teacher as the other had, make grades mean little, one may never get the A's and make honors, don't make it mean the same---avoid other that tell one to "try harder to be like so and so!!"

this effected my DH all his life, but pay back is priceless---his brian of a sister did not get the child she expected and now she is dealing with her brother in reverse and our child far out passes his sister, she knows this and hates it

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by serenbat

this effected my DH all his life, but pay back is priceless---his brian of a sister did not get the child she expected and now she is dealing with her brother in reverse and our child far out passes his sister, she knows this and hates it

Ouch, the feelings of resentment here sound really toxic. I sure hope that none of this is being communicated even implicitly to your child. It would be nice if you could do your part to make sure that the comparisons and resentment don't get passed on to the next generation.

Miranda

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by vivica2

i am confused abotu one thing. why is 4 to early to start seeing giftedness?

to me, it's very danergous to peg siblings as "the gifted one," "the atheltic one, "the artsy one" WHATEVER. It's not the specific lable, but sticking a child into a role in the family. I think it's harmful to both kids.

Both your kids have a combination of many strengths and weaknesses, likes and dislikes, etc. Casting them into a role limits them and puts pressure on them.

Sometimes labels are very helpful -- both my kids have official, tested labels, which helps with school and communicating with people outside our family, but within our family we really try to stay away from telling the kids what they are supposed to be like.

For example, many *gifted* kids feel like everything schooly is supposed to come easily to them, that's it part of their identity. When they come up something they have to work at, it can really mess with their sense of self.

The more a child is raised understanding that different things come easily to different people, hard work is a good thing, and finding things to be passionate makes life fun, the better chance they have of keeping their sense of self in tact as they approach challenges.

Likewise, a child is raised to see herself as "not the gifted one" could also be prone to not try, assuming that they won't be good at it anyway. The child labeled as "arty" might not really like art as she gets older, and labeling her as "arty" could limit the other child ability to learn to express himself creatively.

There's just nothing to be gained by casting your kids into roles as "The gifted one" and "the arty one." Not at any point in their lives, and esp not when they are so little.

I'm sure your 4 year old is very bright, but I'm sure he's lots of other things as well.

[RiverTam]

I have two gifted kids. One was obviously gifted at age 2 and the other just seemed to be a charming, lively toddler. His gifts were obvious at that age. Half of gifted kids don't read or show an early interest in academics.

I would be very careful of comparing kids as "gifted" and "not gifted." My husband's little brother was the designated "gifted" child in his family. My husband and his older brother were not. Huge sacrifices were made to furnish Little Brother's gifts, and the other two kids got the short end of the stick.

In reality, all three were gifted, but my in-laws had no idea what they were dealing with. The school identified Little Brother, but not the other two, who were hellions to start with. In the end, Little Brother burned out early. DH and Older Brother had less pressure and did very well. The resentments are huge to this day, on all sides of the sibling relationships.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by serenbat

this effected my DH all his life, but pay back is priceless---his brian of a sister did not get the child she expected and now she is dealing with her brother in reverse and our child far out passes his sister, she knows this and hates it

Intended as a constructive question:
Is it somehow just or desirable that his sister is "paying a price" for the actions of others (adults) when she was a child?

[whatsnextmom]

this effected my DH all his life, but pay back is priceless---his brian of a sister did not get the child she expected and now she is dealing with her brother in reverse and our child far out passes his sister, she knows this and hates it

I hope there is some understanding that your DH's childhood is not his sister's fault. She didn't ask her parents and teachers to come down harder on your DH. I expect she felt tremendous pressure (whether internal or external) to perform as many 1st borns do. I'm sorry, but blaming the big sister is a really easy way out of taking responsibility for yourself. Taking joy in the fact that her child has struggles, well, that's just cruel.

[vivica2]

wow! thanks so much for all the info, ideas and opinions/views!

i have been doing some more reading about it. my DD is a very physical little girl, she can outpace her brother physically (shes doing headstands and working on cartwheeles) 2 years behind him. she LOVED dance classes too! she does awesome with the choreography and gets so squeely when i take her! lol maybe she is just gifted in a different way. whether either of them is or not, im glad they are both passionate about what the love!

and now i know not to rush it. it will be, what it will be... as long as i just support and nourish!

thanks so much!