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ERF'ing and scrunched legs - Page 2

post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
There have been NO reports of leg fractures in RF children. None. And I am sure at least one ERF child has been in a crash. I fail to see how my 5 yo is less crammed than the 3 yo in the OP. He certainly looks like he fits to me.
Ask your dd to get in that car seat again and put her feet where the OP's ds has his. Then look at how her thighs are positioned in relation to her body. From what I'm seeing in the two pictures, her thighs will be father from her torso than his.

Now, if the OP were in a position to recline the seat more, like yours is, then he'd fit, like your dd does. Moving it over so it's behind an empty passenger seat is definitely a possibility, but wouldn't solve the issue of what happens when someone needs to sit in the front passenger seat.

And I submit again that ERF does not typically occur in children who are in pain from how they are sitting. Somewhat uncomfortable? Certainly. "Squished" even? Absolutely. "having trouble walking after getting out of the car because of leg cramps"? Not so much.
post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie View Post
So, I chatted witH DS about his legs today and how they felt squished up back there and he said he could move them. He splayed out his knees and put his feet together in front of him, and he fit a bit better.
That sounds more comfy and safer. *experiments with her own legs in her chair* and I suspect that that'll move pressure off his nerves. Might still end up uncomfortable over time, but shouldn't end up being horribly painful.

That also explains why some seats are designed with flared sides. He probably couldn't sit like that in a Scenera for instance.
post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
Do you have a source for that info? I can certainly see children complaining of being uncomfortable if they don't like ERF'ing (and plenty don't) but I don't think it will cause any lasting damage, either.
yes, I'm a short adult who ends up sitting on my sacrum a lot because chairs don't fit me, I have chronic hip and lower back problems because of it. I'm not saying that spending a few minutes a day in the car positioned like that would cause chronic problems, but over time it can cause problems because of the unnatural pressure on the joints at the back of the pelvis. not as likely to happen with a pre-schooler, who still has elastic joints, but still something I would try to avoid, especially if he spends a lot of time in the car.
post #24 of 31
I'm hoping that someone could fill me in on why a child would stil be RF at that age? I've never heard of it before. What are the benefits and reasons? Just curious... Thanks!
post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmelanson View Post
I'm hoping that someone could fill me in on why a child would stil be RF at that age? I've never heard of it before. What are the benefits and reasons? Just curious... Thanks!
Rear-facing is much, much safer than FF, because in a front-end collision (the most common and fastest collisions) the RF seat cradles the spine in an accident, while FF the harness holds the body while the head is flung forward. Also RF provides more side-impact (the most deadly form of accident) protection. Rear-impact collisions are the least common and are most often at low speeds.

The spine slowly ossifies (hardens) up until a child is 4-6 years old. After ossification, the spine is much more capable of sustaining that kind of impact. Which is why many of us try to keep our children RF until at least 4 years old if possible. My 2.5yo is RF still, and will remain so probably until she is 40lbs (she is 32lbs now) . There are seats out there that RF to 40-45lbs. Bent legs are not considered a safety concern, and most kids put their legs out to the side or prop them up on the seat back, or sit cross legged and are perfectly comfortable with the arrangement.

OP: If your DS is complaining about his legs hurting, have you tried reminding him that they wouldn't hurt so much if he put them in a different position (like dangled over the side or propped up on the seatback)? The position he's in DOES look uncomfortable, but he doesn't have to sit like that... If it's really uncomfortable and there's no way to move his legs elsewhere and there's no way to recline his seat more (like putting it behind the passenger seat...) then I'd consider turning him at that age. But I would try the alternatives first!
post #26 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Ask your dd to get in that car seat again and put her feet where the OP's ds has his. Then look at how her thighs are positioned in relation to her body. From what I'm seeing in the two pictures, her thighs will be father from her torso than his.

Now, if the OP were in a position to recline the seat more, like yours is, then he'd fit, like your dd does. Moving it over so it's behind an empty passenger seat is definitely a possibility, but wouldn't solve the issue of what happens when someone needs to sit in the front passenger seat.

And I submit again that ERF does not typically occur in children who are in pain from how they are sitting. Somewhat uncomfortable? Certainly. "Squished" even? Absolutely. "having trouble walking after getting out of the car because of leg cramps"? Not so much.
Not sure who you were quoting in the above statement, but I never said he was having trouble walking after getting out of the car because of leg cramps. I said he was occasionally complaining on longer trips that his bottom fell asleep and that his back hurt. He has never had a hard time walking, and has never complained that his legs hurt or cramped up. 99.9% of the time, he does not complain about how he is feeling back there. I really was just looking to see what people thought about turning him either permanently or occasionally. I am pretty sure I have decided to turn him on longer trips to help him feel more comfy back there. I really would like to get him to at least 4 RF'ing for most of his car trips.
post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie View Post
Not sure who you were quoting in the above statement, but I never said he was having trouble walking after getting out of the car because of leg cramps. I said he was occasionally complaining on longer trips that his bottom fell asleep and that his back hurt. He has never had a hard time walking, and has never complained that his legs hurt or cramped up. 99.9% of the time, he does not complain about how he is feeling back there. I really was just looking to see what people thought about turning him either permanently or occasionally. I am pretty sure I have decided to turn him on longer trips to help him feel more comfy back there. I really would like to get him to at least 4 RF'ing for most of his car trips.
Wasn't quoting anyone. Was using the quotes to group sets of words.

An argument had been made that something never happens, I was questioning whether that had really been tested for all cases.
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
An argument had been made that something never happens, I was questioning whether that had really been tested for all cases.
Right. Anecdotal evidence about an adult in a similar position does not equal evidence, and as we all know children are much more flexible and elastic.

I will have to quiz DD on her comfort when I pick her up from Kindy in a few minutes
post #29 of 31
my 4 year old who rearfaces, sits criss cross apple sauce, but I haven't had an old enough boy to see if they would do that...good job in keeping him rf so long !
post #30 of 31
The Swedes are the only ones rear facing kids to age 4 or longer and our experiences are great, both for comfort and safety. If older kids were uncomfortable RF we would have big problems;-)

Most believe RF benefits disappear at age two but this is not true. The safety benefits after age 2 are huge although they slowly decrease with age. This has a lot to do with the ossification of bones like above poster mentioned. The ossification of bones continue to puberty. At age 4-6 the bones are far stronger than at age 2 but still far from developed.

At children get older bones are stronger but the protection in side impact accidents is still poor for forward facing children regardless if it's with harness of high back booster. This is due to pre-impact breaking, which often occurs in these type of accidents, which often leave FF children's neck/head almost unprotected. RF children gets pushed further into the seat due to pre-impact breaking which provide excellent protection

We see the benefits of long rear facing time every day here. Fatalities and serious injuries for children in traffic aged 0-6 years are basically zero.
post #31 of 31
But, don't the swedish seats have a better design for older kids (more leg room?)
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