9yo refusing to go to bed or get up for school

[Ruthla]

I'm at my wit's end with my almost 9yo son. I know he's unhappy at school, and needs some special services- the process has started to get him those services but they're not in place yet. In the meantime, he still needs to go to school every day.

The school bus is coming in about 5 minutes. We have to leave the house in 20 minutes if I'm going to drive him there on time. But he's in bed absolutely refusing to get up. I'm on here instead of in there trying to wake him because nothing good will come of me losing my temper, and he's too big for me to physically pick up and carry to the car. His lunch is packed and his clothes are laid out.

He gave me a similar problem last night about bedtime. He was overtired and not cooperative and I was tired and impatient and, in the end, he got to sleep around 10:00 instead of 9:00, even though we started winding down around 8:30.

What am I supposed to do with him when he gets like this?

[sunnmama]

Is this a new behavior for him--completely refusing to get up and go through the motions?

I'd probably let go (in my own head) of the hope of getting him there on time today, so that the situation feels less urgent to me. Then, when he does get up, keep going through the motions and take him to school. We'd talk about it more when he got home, and discuss any possible consequences (losing a privilege in the evening if he refused to get up in the morning?).

If this is a regular occurrence, I'd talk to the counselor at school. I'd probably call in the AM saying why we will be late, and ask the counselor to expect us. And then I'd bring my reluctant child straight to the counselor when we got to school, so that they can be involved in the process of solving the problem.

[phathui5]

And then I'd bring my reluctant child straight to the counselor when we got to school, so that they can be involved in the process of solving the problem.

If he does have to go to school, I think this is a good idea.

Do you need the childcare? Are you able to keep him home until his services are in place?

[arniflora]

Another suggestion would be to start his "wind down" time much earlier, like at 7. If you anticipate it taking an hour and a half, then he will be in bed around 8:30 with some extra time to be asleep no later than 9.

If that means changing dinner schedules around, etc., do what is necessary. Sleep is often the forgotten "magic ingredient" with children of all ages.

[Ruthla]

Well, for today he's home and I'm doing schoolwork with him, trying to guess what the teacher would be doing today and doing that with him.

It's hard to wind him down at 7:00 PM when DD1 doesn't get home from school until 7:15. She needs my attention in the evenings.

[Acupuncturist]

Are you certain that there are not any issues related to bullying either at school or on the bus? The fact that this is a new behavior and that he is just completely refusing to get out of bed and go would make me worry that there's something going on that he hasn't told you about (above and beyond the academic issues that remain to be addressed). The recent news reports of children as young as 13 committing suicide after having been subjected to bullying (sometimes with parents being completely clueless that there is a problem) are just terrifying to me.

As far as bedtime goes...we have found that completely eliminating TV and/or computer time in the evening makes a big difference when it comes time for our three boys to wind down for bed. I think that boys' brains are particularly subject to getting kind of wound up by technology in a way that makes it hard for them to sleep. Also, we have found that our 9 year old is not too old to want to be told a story and tucked into bed at night. I think we as parents sometimes drop these practices with children as they get older thinking that they don't want or need them anymore, but some quiet time with mom before bed can be an important anchor in a child's day.

[jtbuko]

My almost 7 year old was asking me to home school him because he didn't like getting up early for school and we switched to a CD alarm clock that let him wake up to the Star Wars theme. Not sure if something like that would help since it seems like you have more going on than just waking up in the AM... but might be worth a try.

[Minxie]

A couple of suggestions:

Give him ownership of the situation. "You are welcome to stay up as late as you want, provided you are able to get yourself up in the morning."

Start ratcheting back his bedtime for him. My 4 yr old DS will sometimes stay up late "because I'm not tired, Mama!" The next morning he is usually a bear so bedtime is moved to right after dinner. When he protests, I gently remind him of how difficult it was for him to waken "so your body must need more rest."

[MamieCole]

If something about school is too stressful for him, I can totally understand the not wanting to go to bed and then not wanting to get out of bed the next morning. In the mind of a child, going to bed just means the morning will be here sooner, which means you have to get up and go to school sooner. If you can postpone going to sleep, you postpone having to go to school and deal with whatever is causing the angst.

I would try not to worry about the bed time thing and concentrate on what is wrong at school. There could be lots of things going on, from bullying to a bad fit with a teacher, to the simple stress of feeling like you aren't as smart/athletic/whatever as the other kids. School can be a tough, tough place. I agree with the pp that perhaps keeping him home until proper services are in place for him at school.

[Ornery]

My oldest ds had a hard time getting up to go to school. At the time, he had the choice between homeschooling and public school and he chose public school. As he chose to go to public school, I felt he needed to follow their rules which included getting there on time. Plus, personally I think it is disrespectful to the teacher to bring children to school late. It disrupts the classroom. If he had chosen homeschool, we would have worked together to determine rules and a schedule that met both our needs.

My natural consequence for him not getting up in the morning in time was going to bed earlier. And I didn't cajole or discuss it with him. It just was how it was. I would matter of factly let him know that if he chose not to get up at whatever time he needed to get up at, he would be going to sleep at some earlier time as he obviously he needed more sleep. And then I enforced that. His lights were off and he was in his room at whatever time his bedtime ended up being (I think at first for every hour late he was for school, he had to be in bed an hour earlier or something like that). He threw massive fits about it but I didn't engage (think waiting at the bus stop type response). I would calmly walk him to his room, shut off the light and tell him goodnight. Rinse and repeat. Not much fun at the time but in the end it was what worked for us.

In addition, if he chose not get up and was tardy, he had to deal with whatever consequences were dealt out at school.

Of course, this is for my neurotypical kid who wasn't getting bullied or anything like that. If your child has special needs or is being bullied or whatnot, it may not be applicable at all. I've also been told that it is too "authoritative" by some so YMMV.

[Ruthla]

Forcing DS to bed simply doesn't work. He's faster and stronger than I am, and he doesn't have his own bedroom. Trying to force him into his room, turn off the lights, and walking out of the room results in him throwing items all around the room (which ruins my property as well as DD2's), slamming doors, yelling, etc, which disturbs the entire family. We have enough trouble enforcing a normal bedtime, no way could I make him stay in bed if he's not tired yet.

He was just moved from 4th grade to 3rd grade, and he's very happy with his new class. He was overwhelmed at school, pure and simple.

[meemee]

ruthla take days off.

give him mental days off.

perhaps wednesdays would be good as it provides a good break in teh work week. DONt do it a monday or friday then it makes it really hard on the kids.

there are days my dd does not enjoy school. she really does not want to go there. she isnt sick. its just something inherent in her. so she goes to school with me. i think it really gives her the break she needs so she is able to go back to school happy.

esp. since your son has issues with school.

with dd i notice we need to take sometimes once a week off the initial few months of school and then she settles in fine. we finish any work over the weekend if its too much to be done the next day.

we have been doing this since K. we took more breaks in first. hardly any in second. and we are back to now in 3rd. this last month we took every wednesday off.

i really do think its makes a HUUUGE difference to dd. if i dont have school myself we do fun things. her fav. is going to a science museum. or the park or the movie or just being home so she can read her manga.

dd has anxiety. last week i saw her cough hard and painful to swallow symptoms so i did a u turn and she stayed with me at my school. i soooo knew in my guts that if i had continued to send her to her school against her wishes she would have come down with a bad throat and eventually might have had to miss a few days. but once i took her to my school she perked up, never coughed again and recovered well and went back to school happily the next day.

i have had the talk with dd. that we cant take mental breaks as much as seh would like to, but she can take some. that talk really helped her and she doesnt ask for it all teh time.

[Ruthla]

Now that he's been put into the correct grade level (based on maturity, not calendar age) he seems to be doing fine. Taking "mental health days" as often as every week would make it harder for him to keep up with schoolwork.

[4evermom]

The whole orchestrating bedtime and waking ds up was one of the worst things about school...

My ds gets into bed happily because I've been reading a very exciting book series to him. But he isn't thrilled when I stop reading and turn off the lights. And I know you have other kids to be with in the evenings so developing that kind of positive association with bedtime might not be feasible.

I remember when we were kids and wanted to stay up late to listen to Dr Demento on the radio, we were allowed to only if we got up without complaining for school the next day.

Maybe your ds is still in the adjustment stage with school and needing more sleep now. It might be easier for him to fall asleep when he's fully adjusted and the days aren't taking as much out of him. Being overtired really is a problem for my ds and I know he'd have trouble from that if he were in school.

Would it be possible to do the dimming lights and volumes in the evening, having everything post dinner be as calm as possible? That's a ridiculous idea with 3 older kids one of whom is just getting home, isn't it?

[Ruthla]

Yeah, everything post- dinner IS as calm as possible- it's just that things can't be very calm when DD1 is first coming home from school.

Ideally, DS, DD2, and I would go to bed at the same time in the evenings, and then DS will wake up naturally when the girls have to leave for school, giving us an hour together in the mornings before he needs to go to school. That happened for a while during the first few weeks of school, but not since then.

[Minxie]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Forcing DS to bed simply doesn't work. He's faster and stronger than I am, and he doesn't have his own bedroom. Trying to force him into his room, turn off the lights, and walking out of the room results in him throwing items all around the room (which ruins my property as well as DD2's), slamming doors, yelling, etc, which disturbs the entire family. We have enough trouble enforcing a normal bedtime, no way could I make him stay in bed if he's not tired yet.

He was just moved from 4th grade to 3rd grade, and he's very happy with his new class. He was overwhelmed at school, pure and simple.

Does he enjoy reading comic books? I found some First Reader comic books for DS (not violent; look for "I can read!"). These are special books for bedtime only; if he gets out of bed, they go on the bookshelf. Since I bought these, he willingly goes to bed and reads himself to sleep (takes about twenty minutes or so.)

[ssh]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Forcing DS to bed simply doesn't work. He's faster and stronger than I am, and he doesn't have his own bedroom. Trying to force him into his room, turn off the lights, and walking out of the room results in him throwing items all around the room (which ruins my property as well as DD2's), slamming doors, yelling, etc, which disturbs the entire family. We have enough trouble enforcing a normal bedtime, no way could I make him stay in bed if he's not tired yet.

He was just moved from 4th grade to 3rd grade, and he's very happy with his new class. He was overwhelmed at school, pure and simple.

I'm glad to hear that your DS's educational situation was fixed so quickly. Sometimes schools can drag their feet over fixing things. It sounds like your real problem was school was just too overwhelming. Not being able to sleep because of stress is not a discipline issue. My DH has trouble sleeping when work is too chaotic ..... anxiety does that.

[Ornery]

I totally agree with the fact that it sounds like a school issue not a discipline issue. I was approaching it as a discipline issue and should have given more credence to your info about school being such a big stressor for him. I am sorry about that and glad that it sounds like things might be changing for him.

Having said that, my ds did throw monster fits about going to bed. Although throwing stuff would have been a huge deal for us and led to him making reparations, he did slam doors, yell, even cry. We talked about his fits once he calmed down. I empathized with him that it didn't feel fair to have to go to bed when he didn't feel tired but that if he was too tired in the morning to get out of bed, that meant his body was telling him it needed more sleep and that tomorrow when he bounced out of bed, we could try the later bed time again. Also, we weren't super strict about bedtime unless he couldn't get up in the morning in time for school. There were many times that he stayed up later to finish a chapter or a book, to watch a special show or to do something fun.

I also have to make it clear that I NEVER physically forced him to go to bed. Also, it does suck to be in bed and not be able to sleep but it wasn't like it was super early. I think his bedtime was 9 pm and we would shorten it to 8:45 or 8:30. There were a couple of times that he was so awful in the morning to deal with that we shortened it to 8:15 or 8 but that was only once or twice.

Anyway, enough justification. In your specific situation, none of this is applicable. I just didn't want anyone to think I was dragging my boy by his ear to bed at 4 in the afternoon

[MHalverson]

I had a similar problem with my 9 year old. She would refuse to get up to get ready for school. I quickly found that the madder I got, the more she refused. I turned it around a little and gave her incentives to get up. If she got up good, without me telling her more than once, we would read her favorite book tonight or I would take her chore over for her (clearing the dinner table) and told her that if she did it all week that we would go for ice cream Friday night. That did the trick. I have four kids and think with her it was her way of trying to get my attention. Good luck! I know they can be stubborn!

[Ruthla]

He's been very happy in school, and excited to get up and get there in the morning, since his grade was changed.

He was acting out because his needs weren't being met in school. Now that his needs are being met, the discipline problems have gone away.