Using "fresh" flour?

[chantald]

We have a local Mill that grinds it's own flour. I bought 25 lbs of All Purpose flour from Red Wheat Berries (I am not sure if they were hard or soft) last week. I was SO excited!!
I promptly came home and made a loaf of bread.. since it was AP flour I just thought it would work like the flour I get from the store.. Since I was in a rush, I used the bread maker to mix, knead and rise the bread, then transferred it to a loaf pan for it's second rise and then cooked it in the oven.

It hardly rose at all.. and while it tasted good, was quite brick like.. I used my basic white bread recipe.. flour, water, pinch of salt, yeast, olive oil..

The yeast is good.. I made bread with it the week before and it rose just perfectly..

So.. what did I do wrong? I have been told I need to add things to the flour.. gluten.. ascorbic acid.. lecithin... all things I wanted to avoid.. My hang up is that bread is flour and water and yeast.. it's been that way for hundreds or more years.. and I'm just resisting the need for additives.. which is silly.. I'll admit..


So.. if you have used fresh flour.. how did you make it work?? I really want to switch to this flour for all our flour.. which is why I got All Purpose.. for cooking, baking and bread making..

help!

[aikigypsy]

I have a home grinder and have been using recipes in the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book since January. It's a great guide to learning how to make bread.

I suspect that you need a higher gluten bread flour. Also, it might help to go by weight, rather than volume measurements when putting the ingredients together, but mostly you'll probably just need to learn how to make this flour work through experimentation and practice.

I find that I use the freshly ground flour for pancakes and bread, but that I've reverted to store-bought white flour for pie crusts, cakes, cookies, etc. 25 pounds sounds like a lot, but I went through almost 50 pounds of bread flour between February and July for a fairly small family.

ETA: You should refrigerate the flour or keep it in a root cellar. True whole-grain flour doesn't keep well.

Good luck with it!

[tinuviel_k]

Yep, you NEED more gluten. All purpose flour just doesn't work well for whole wheat risen bread unless you all more gluten. I always do. I also make a moister dough, and that helps quit a bit.

You are right in that people have been using whole wheat and barley for bread for thousands of years with no supplemental gluten. But high-rising fluffy bread is very much a modern invention. The whole grain bread of long ago was very dense.

[chantald]

ANyone do this type of bread the "Artisan Bread in 5 min a day" method?? How did you adapt it?

For baking.. cakes.. cookies etc.. do I need to do anything different with the fresh AP flour I have.

I went out and got some gluten.. I am going to try it tonight..

thanks!!

[mamadelbosque]

Another note, is that you may not have had enough flour. I know when I grind my own flour I almost always end up needing 25-50% more than the recipe calls for - I suspect its because it gradually settles as it sits on the shelf, where as freshly ground is simply more fluffy... for lack of a better word Good luck!!

[koru]

I had this exact same issue after switching to SAF yeast & just swore up & down the yeast must be defective (even though it proofed fine). But alas, I needed more gluten! I was messing around with various bread recipes & using different wheat berries (hard red, soft white) and was confusing myself to no end. But yes, when I added extra gluten it rose better. Still not what I would like to see but I'm not giving up!

[koru]

aikigypsy, do you weigh your ingredients? I've been reading The Bread Maker's Apprentice & he talks about the importance of weighing ingredients....but what of the natural feel of the dough? Before using SAF yeast, I would start out my bread by proofing the yeast with a bit of honey & warm water and then add flour (and gluten & salt & coconut oil & chia seeds & whatever else I fancied) until it reached an "acceptable" consistency. I've lost the touch, though, and think I add too much flour so I've been considering buying a scale.

Sorry if I'm hijacking!

[JElaineB]

Originally Posted by aikigypsy

Also, it might help to go by weight, rather than volume measurements when putting the ingredients together, but mostly you'll probably just need to learn how to make this flour work through experimentation and practice.
Good luck with it!

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque

Another note, is that you may not have had enough flour. I know when I grind my own flour I almost always end up needing 25-50% more than the recipe calls for - I suspect its because it gradually settles as it sits on the shelf, where as freshly ground is simply more fluffy... for lack of a better word Good luck!!

Originally Posted by koru

aikigypsy, do you weigh your ingredients? I've been reading The Bread Maker's Apprentice & he talks about the importance of weighing ingredients....

I agree with these posts - weighing the flour is very important when using fresh ground, because it will not weigh the same as store bought flour that is packed into a bag. If you have a recipe you like, I would recommend weighing some of the flour you used to use (i.e., if you used 3 cups, how much does that weigh?) Then using the same weight of the fresh ground flour.

Also, I'm assuming if they are labelling this an "all purpose flour" then it would be in the same protein range as store bought all-purpose flour. It may have been a a mix of hard and soft wheat berries (even if they are all the same color). If your usual recipe works with all-purpose flour the new flour will probably be fine, but it is possible it is lower in protein (gluten) than what you used to use. If this mill could make you white flour from only hard wheat that would probably give a better end result. If they did do that and you still want a better result, you may need to add gluten as some PP suggested.

[mnnice]

I have a home grinder and have not really had as consistent bread making results since I started grinding my own. It works great for pancakes and waffles. No great advice. My goal for November is to get in a better bread making grove.

[carfreemama]

I grind all our flour and use 100% hard wheat berries for all our baking, unless I'm doing something different like spelt or barley or whatever. But, all home milled.

Whether the wheat berries were soft or hard makes ALL the difference. I would start there. I also do a sponge with our bread. I start by proofing dry yeast in water; potato water if I have it, otherwise plain. Then I add a little sweetener like honey or maple syrup, plus a few teaspoons of salt, some oil and enough flour to make a batter-consistency dough. I let that sit for an hour or so, then add the rest of the flour very slowly. I do knead for quite a while. I only add "sharp" ingredients, like cracked wheat or ground dried beans, at the end of kneading. It gets 3 rises if I have time, not including the sponge.

The bread is dense, but it rises very well.

Also, I cook it on a preheated pizza stone, usually free-form loaves. I start it at 375 and then drop to 350.