DH spanked DS

[Lineymom]

DH and I were both spanked as children. We have agreed not to spank ours. He keeps going back on his word to me and this last time, even to the kids. About 4 months ago he made a big to-do about promising them he would never spank them la-de-dah. Tonight, 5yo DS hurts his brother, quite by accident (he was just being too hyper) and he spanks him It wasn't a "bad" spanking, a single slap on the bottom, but it broke my heart and DS's for the moment, anyway. DS immediately confronted DH about his promise and DH just back pedaled. I had just gotten the baby to sleep and rushed to intervene and of course DH is mad at me (our relationship is not just great right now and it is always my fault when he losses his temper)
DH's answer to me is "Taking away silly bands is not the answer." (DS had done something earlier that DH had overreacted to and he had "grounded" him from his silly bands.)
We have been having some disipline problems from DS of late, but this wasn't even it. Again, he was just being hyper. We have had issues with him hiting his brother (older 8yo) DH had been patience and effective with those incidences a few days ago and nothing like has happened since (a subject I will bring up tomorrow b4 he thinks this revoking the no spanking policy is improving DS) One part that is really bugging me is that DH asked 8yo DS if he thought his brother needed that spanking and he said yes. DH has this way of trying to get one son against the other and/or both against me. I hate it so bad. He makes sure I can't go in and be the "comforter" after the fact by giving them what they always beg for at bedtime, a long story, of course being so super nice.
I don't know why I am posting this, just needed to vent...

[lisavark]

Hugs to you, mama! That's such a tough situation. My mom spanked my DD recently so I feel your pain!

One thing that strikes me in your story is the fact that your DH promised the kids he wouldn't spank and then went back on his promise. That kind of inconsistency is really confusing for kids, and there are lots of studies to back that up (don't have any offhand but I'm sure you could easily find some!). So I think if I were in your position, that is the first thing I would address. You and he agreed to something, you both promised it to the kids, and then he changed his mind. Maybe talking with your DH about why that won't work in the long term would help?

Also, it sounds like your DH kind of turns to spanking when he doesn't know what else to do (I'm guessing this from him saying "taking away silly bands doesn't help"--it's like, the other thing we're doing aren't working, so I need to try this). Maybe having more techniques up his sleeve would really help him. My DH isn't big on learning new skills, but I read a lot about parenting ideas, and then I implement the ideas and describe to him how I do them and how they work. I also give him scientific studies as much as possible to back up my methods, because that info is very persuasive to his logical mind. Even if your DH isn't willing to read a book or take a class, maybe if you could do more research and give him lots of different techniques to try, that might help him.

Good luck, mama! It's SO tough changing the way we were raised...

[SpottedFoxx]

Originally Posted by Lineymom

our relationship is not just great right now and it is always my fault when he losses his temper)

~throwing red flag on the field~

This is abusive behavior. Plain and simple.

You obviously both need parenting help. You can't just make promises and go back on them. You can't be wishy washy about consequences. Get thee to a therapist stat. Find someone in your area who specializes in parenting challenges. If they also do marriage counseling - it's a bonus. This problem will not get better on it's own.

[Dov'sMom]

I will also say as a child who was spanked quite a bit, the hug and solicitouness after is the WORST. To this day I have issues with intimate touch because of how my father used to be all over me after hitting me.

[at-home]

cancelled thought - sorry!

[Smithie]

I don't actually have strong feeling about spanking either way. But parents not maintaining a united front on discipline issues? Going back on promises about household discipline policy? THAT'S confusing and disorienting for any kid in any circumstance.

If your DH isn't going to keep a promise not to spank, then IMO he shouldn't make one again. Not spanking would be best. Not LYING about spanking is a distant second best, but better than what happened tonight. You can't make his parenting decisions for him, and I doubt that you did anybody any good by "rushing to intervene" over a "single slap on the bottom" and undermining him in front of the kids. This was a two-way parenting failure, and if you can own your part in it, you might get your husband to accept his own failing and THEN you might be able to make some rules, in private, that you can both keep to when you're dealing with the kids.

If it sounds as though I'm not taking your opposition to spanking seriously, then I apologize. I DO take it seriously. I am not trying to get you to start spanking your children! But your convictions don't necessarily match your husband's on this, and I think it's a mistake for one parent to expect to rule the other parent on discipline issues. In my house, we back each other's plays every time, and talk it out later if there's a serious disagreement.

[peainthepod]

I would rush in and stop my DH from spanking my child, if he were to temporarily lose his mind and do such a thing. It's my job to protect my children from violence, even if that violence is coming from their father. I was raised in an abusive household and know all too well what happens when one parent decides not to intervene so they can retain a "united front".

(Not to pick on you, Smithie, but I completely disagree that OP was wrong to stop the hitting.)

Anyway, your DH's always blaming you for his inability to control himself is a Very Bad Sign and I agree that you should seek marriage counseling together. And I think he owes your son an apology and a sincere promise that it will never happen again (one he intends to keep this time).

So sorry you had to witness that, OP. I would be beyond distraught.

[dalia]

I definitely agree with the PP, that you did the right thing by trying to intervene and protect your child. As someone who was hit as a kid, I have, to this day, very angry feelings at my dad (even though he is passed!). I loved and love him dearly, which is confusing because there were times when he could be very violent. I remember my mom getting in the middle of it, trying to stop him. That has helped me to forgive her for "allowing" that to happen to me. I believe that if you were to force yourself not to protect your child all you would be doing is compromising your integrity and making your kids think that you have betrayed them as well. That's what physical punishment is ultimately, a betrayal of the trust from the one you love the most.

I think your son is going to be okay. Communication is key. I do believe that taking responsibility for any part you may play in your marital issues is key, but only to what you can truly and wholly be responsible for. Trying to remove your child from a bad situation? NO, I wouldn't be sorry for that one.

Big hug. I am very sorry this has happened to you.

[Smithie]

I was raised in an abusive household and know all too well what happens when one parent decides not to intervene so they can retain a "united front".

(Not to pick on you, Smithie, but I completely disagree that OP was wrong to stop the hitting.)

It's probably worth pointing out that I did NOT grow up in an abusive household, nor did my DH, and our feelings on this issue are doubtless influenced by the fact that our parents' united fronts weren't facilitating abuse.

OP, if you feel strongly enough about it that you are going to physically fling yourself between your son and his father to stop a spanking (and I'm not saying that's wrong, I wasn't there and I didn't see what went down), then either he stops or it's a counseling issue and BOTH of you commit to working out a solution that doesn't have you engaging in that kind of dramatic confrontation in front of the kids. Some of my worst memories of MY childhood are of my parents losing their emotional control and dragging me into their ongoing conflict over Issue X (normal spousal stuff, discipline issues among others, but stuff that is is supposed to be hashed out without involving the kids). Give me a spanking any day, over that.

[NiteNicole]

I agree with a poster above that it sounds like your DH is out of ideas and needs some results. A five year old that's still hitting is a problem. A five year old who gets "too hyper" and hurts other people, even by accident, needs to be addressed. I am with your husband that I would need something more direct than randomly taking away Silly Bands.

I think you need to have three discussions:

First, he may not even know he's pitting the kids against each other. You need to find a way to tell him without making it sound like blaming because you have a LOT he needs to hear. In his mind, maybe he's giving the kid who's been hit a bit of power or showing the hitter that see, your hurt your brother and this is how it feels. In the heat of the moment when you feel like a situation is out of control (and in my head, when something becomes a chronic problem I start to panic and think it's just going to spiral out of control) it is easy to panic.

Second, I can see with my own daughter that us having discipline disputes in front of her just amps up her behavior. She is only four and she knows that when Mom and Dad disagree, there are cracks she can sneak through, her behavior is going to go unnoticed while we hash it out, and she has even said to my husband, "Mommy says you can't talk to me like that" which is SO disrespectful (to be fair, my husband has a tone issue. His parents just YELL so he thinks yelling is no big deal. I disagree. A lot. I do not come from a yelling family).

Third, the spanking. He needs other tools. I agree, taking away Silly Bands for getting "too hyper" and hitting your brother is not going to work. Maybe if he's "too hyper" and won't settle, you need to send him outside to run it off, send him in his room to calm himself, you know what works with your kid. Mine usually needs quiet time, a snack, and some rest.

Even for people who don't do punishments do SOMETHING when things are getting out of hand. It doesn't have to be some kind of mean punishment, but you have to figure out something that stops whatever happening. Unfortunately, your husband probably wants something he does one time and *poof* problem solved...but even spanking isn't magic.

This is a lot of criticism for one person to hear at once. I would try to approach this as we both want what's best for our kids and in the calm moments, we both feel like spanking is not where we want to go. We need a plan, we need to think about what we are comfortable with and be consistent, etc.

[waiting2bemommy]

We aren't totally GD, but we are always trying to find better alternatives to spanking, and one thing that has helped with my SO (though not in the heat of the moment, when he already feels bad) is to gently ask him, "did you find that spanking solved the problem?" 99% of the time it did not. Or maybe it did, temporarily, but it caused a lot of unhappiness and bad feelings all around. The I ask him to brainstorm with me what we could do the next time that situation comes up.

For example, ds is allowed to play outside. He went in the neighbor's house without asking. I was furious (mainly because I turned around and he had disappeared, and I was scared) and I spanked him. However I wanted to find a better way of disciplining him and teaching him that that is very unsafe, so I talked about it with SO. We came up with "grounding" him from playing outside the rest of the day if he broke an outside rule.

Having that consequence already in mind ahead of time has helped SO and myself from reacting in the heat of the moment by spanking. We don't have to resort to a spanking because we already know what the consequence is, and we can carry it out without all the drama.

[laliu]

-- Don't really have much to say as advice, although I can relate to your situation. Earlier this week, DH slapped our 14-month old's hand because he wouldn't stop hitting something with a block. I was mad and intervened, taking son away from situation. I'm torn between keeping a united front with discipline & strong feelings against physical punishment. A few hours later, I gave him some ideas for alternative reactions (i.e. take block away if you can't play nicely with it) but like your husband, he feels that that approach is too soft.

What HAS seemed to work is that now my son whenever he is told NO loudly has been hitting himself ever since. NOT COOL at all. In fact, it is a disturbing illustration of why physical discipline is not a good option. My husband now feels bad about the whole thing and hopefully we won't have a repeat.

Would your DH respond logically if presented with info as to the damage spanking can cause?

[Lineymom]

Thanks for all the replies. I definitely disagree on the united front. I will intervene if DH tries again. I was not "abused" as a child, but I remember my dad keeping his mouth shut as my mom spanked or otherwise harshly disiplined us when his eyes disagreed. I still get so upset when I think of it. He was just so afraid of infruriating her that he would agree

Plus if you think physical punishment is wrong you simply can't allow it on your own kids period. He was in total agreement with me on this, we have discussed it often. Not since this incidence, though, but planning to.

I agree that we could benefit from marriage counseling, but its not happening. We could not afford it. Its really not "that bad" between us. Basically we get on each others nerves a lot. I stay home with the kids and homeschool and he works from a home office (in a tiny 1100 square foot house and 3 kids that have to be quiet during phone conferences etc) Hoping to get an office in town soon... I know that will help.

I think a counselor would say that I spend too much time on the kids and not him and we need couple time etc. Of course, that he needs to value his promises he makes to his kids, be more consistent and control his temper and not pit the kids against each other (or me as he has b4)


I agree with a poster above that it sounds like your DH is out of ideas and needs some results. A five year old that's still hitting is a problem. A five year old who gets "too hyper" and hurts other people, even by accident, needs to be addressed. I am with your husband that I would need something more direct than randomly taking away Silly Bands.

It is not randomly taking them away. We see it as a form of grounding. It has worked well for a long time with or oldest. I can't remember the last time we had to do it though. Something they value and/or something involved in the action that needed disiplined, gets taken away for a day. They also get grounded from playing video games or TV, but they have to have a clean room to do that anyway and their room was a mess. I agree that a hyper 5yo is a "problem" but it is no uncharacteristic of one, nor the hitting! He has always been a "high needs" child, but he is not a terror.
We didn't have a full dispute in front of them, we have still yet to have the dispute, in fact. Older DS 8yo knows that DH had to sleep on the couch that night, though

Third, the spanking. He needs other tools. I agree, taking away Silly Bands for getting "too hyper" and hitting your brother is not going to work. Maybe if he's "too hyper" and won't settle, you need to send him outside to run it off, send him in his room to calm himself, you know what works with your kid. Mine usually needs quiet time, a snack, and some rest.

This happened while they were brushing teeth for bed so yeah. Just a calming talk and watching and joining in comforting his brother who got hurt (but may have overdramatized) would have been enough. It was obvious that DH's patience meter was run over for the day. The silly band grounding was from a different incident.

[Smithie]

"Older DS 8yo knows that DH had to sleep on the couch that night, though "

Wow. If you are going to kick your husband out of bed, maybe you could get him off the couch before your kids get up so they aren't drawn into adult problems like that. Or you could sleep on the couch, yourself, and take responsibility for waking up first. I guarantee you that your sons do NOT want or need to know about that kind of thing.

Again, I don't want you to start spanking your kids. I just want to draw your attention to the fact that you have another, IMO equally serious issue where your kids are involved in your spousal conflicts, and if that's a pattern, then it needs to be dealt with.

Marriage counseling has never seemed like a feasible thing to me either, so I feel you on that one. If you both agree when coolheaded that spanking is not
acceptable, then there's every hope that you can turn that ideal into a reality without $$$ professional help.

[Anastasiya]

Smithie, I completely agree.

OP, your kids should not have to see spousal conflict or "Mom punishing Dad". That will make for kids who feel very insecure with their parents' love for one another.

I know as a kid when I saw Mom and Dad fighting, it was far worse than any grounding or spanking I ever got. FAR worse. Then again, my parents weren't abusive to us, so I saw it through different eyes than how you're seeing it.

Please rethink this. I agree your husband needs different tools in dealing with the kids, but so do you in dealing with your husband.

[Cyllya]

I don't actually have strong feeling about spanking either way. But parents not maintaining a united front on discipline issues? Going back on promises about household discipline policy? THAT'S confusing and disorienting for any kid in any circumstance.

I know as a kid when I saw Mom and Dad fighting, it was far worse than any grounding or spanking I ever got. FAR worse. Then again, my parents weren't abusive to us, so I saw it through different eyes than how you're seeing it.

I still haven't forgiven my mom for "maintaining a unified front" with my dad in these situations. If your spouse is treating your child badly and you pretend to agree with it, you're sending the message to your child that you think he deserves to be treated badly.

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by Cyllya

I still haven't forgiven my mom for "maintaining a unified front" with my dad in these situations. If your spouse is treating your child badly and you pretend to agree with it, you're sending the message to your child that you think he deserves to be treated badly.

IMHO, it's entirely different to maintain a unified front AND THEN go off IN PRIVATE to chew your spouse out and have him or her change the punishment, apologize, etc, than it is to do it all in front of the kids.

That serves to do three things:
1. Make the kids aware that Mom and Dad are now fighting, which creates stress and uncertainty,
2. Make the kids wonder if Mom and Dad's fight is their own (the child's) fault, just as kids of divorced parents often blame themselves, and
3. Make the kids learn to disrespect the other parent, who is "always wrong" and "always in trouble" by his/her spouse.

[Lineymom]

[QUOTE=Anastasiya;15947302].

I know as a kid when I saw Mom and Dad fighting, it was far worse than any grounding or spanking I ever got. FAR worse.QUOTE]

We didn't fight infront of them. I would've loved to see my parents fighting as a child if it meant one was actually standiing up for me, though.

I see no need in hiding the fact that Dh got banished to the couch.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by SpottedFoxx

~throwing red flag on the field~

This is abusive behavior. Plain and simple.

You obviously both need parenting help. You can't just make promises and go back on them. You can't be wishy washy about consequences. Get thee to a therapist stat. Find someone in your area who specializes in parenting challenges. If they also do marriage counseling - it's a bonus. This problem will not get better on it's own.

Couples counseling is NOT OK in abusive situations. just FYI

[Smithie]

"I see no need in hiding the fact that Dh got banished to the couch."



He's your life partner and coparent, not the family dog. You can't expect the kids to respect and obey him if you are willing to demean him in front of them.

If you don't care to share the marital bed on a certain night, that's your right. But kicking your husband out of your shared bedroom (as though you OWN it and he sleeps there on your sufferance), to be found on the couch by his 8 y.o. son the next morning, is a cheap shot and a bully move. IMNSHO, you owe your DH an apology. There are two adults in your household who are losing control of their emotions and asserting themselves in child-unfriendly ways.