vaccine risks versus disease risks

[windorabug]

I am looking to see if anyone has a chart (or something like that) of vaccine risks versus disease risk. For example measles 1 - 2000 fatalities (or severe reactions) measles vaccine 1-3000 fatalities (or severe reactions)
Does this make sense?

My dd is almost 4 and unvaccinated- we are traveling/living abroad (Italy & Europe) & I am feeling nervous about what she may encounter so I am considering some vaccinations. Specifically polio, tdap (maybe just tetanus), measles (if I can get it alone).
thanks!

[ema-adama]

You are much more likely to find information on the risks of the disease. The risks of the vaccine are mostly unknown at this time.

Why are you concerned about polio in Italy?

To be the best of my knowledge, the single measles vaccine is no longer available.

[Xerxella]

The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears does the best job I've seen of outlining the risks of the vaccine with the risks of the disease.

As far as I know there is no wild polio in Europe. There is always the threat that an infected person will leave their rural village in Africa, walk to an airport, get on a plane and fly to Rome and talk to you at the airport. But, that's the same risk in any American city.

My understanding is Tetanus can be treated after the fact. Like, after they step on the proverbial rusty nail, you can still get the Tetanus shot and it will be effective. The risk of Tetanus is the same in Europe as it is in America. Tetanus lives in most fertile soil.

To me, measles doesn't seem too dangerous. It seems like it would just be a rather minor illness.

Just my opinion.

[NaturalBirthGoddes]

You cannot get the tetanus shot after you step on a rusty nail, you would need the immunoglobin administered.

It would be very, very rare for a young, healthy child to get tetanus. Tetanus only thrives in oxygen deprived places. But, if the puncture wound is bleeding, the chance of getting tetanus is about nil. Tetanus is more of a concern with the elderly (who have poorer blood circulation) and young children who have circulation issues.

[Xerxella]

Originally Posted by NaturalBirthGoddes

You cannot get the tetanus shot after you step on a rusty nail, you would need the immunoglobin administered.

It would be very, very rare for a young, healthy child to get tetanus. Tetanus only thrives in oxygen deprived places. But, if the puncture wound is bleeding, the chance of getting tetanus is about nil. Tetanus is more of a concern with the elderly (who have poorer blood circulation) and young children who have circulation issues.

Thanks NaturalBirthGoddes. Then why do hospitals offer the tetanus shot everytime you go in with any injury?

But, anyways, I think I'm still right that the threat of tetanus is the same in Europe as in the US.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Xerxella

Thanks NaturalBirthGoddes. Then why do hospitals offer the tetanus shot everytime you go in with any injury?

1. Because most people have been vaccinated and a booster couldn't hurt

2. Because it's what they've been taught and they don't know any better (I have a friend that is a head ER nurse and had no idea)

3. Because it's a great chance to give a shot and charge your insurance company

4. Because for Children it's the DTaP and increased vaccination rates of the 'P' Portion

[carriebft]

There actually is reserach out there that the T vaccine given post injury helps in outcomes. In addition, Tig is not totally effective at all times, studies with both T and Tig administration show the best outcomes.

Note that Tig is not always effective. See this study on tetanus in children and you will notice that most received tig and it was not effective in total prevention of tetanus:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or.../full/109/1/e2

I take from this:

-T is rare in children, only 15 cases identified in 8 years
-it can cause pretty serious complications, even when tig is administered
-vaccinated kids who still get Tetanus had the best outcomes while those who were unvaccinated had much greater hospital stays (2 vs 25 days) and those who refused even Tig had the worst outcomes.

[windorabug]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

Why are you concerned about polio in Italy?

I was concerned because of the close proximity to Africa & the use of OPV.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by windorabug

I was concerned because of the close proximity to Africa & the use of OPV.

Have you read of any cases of polio from the OPV in Italy? I'm curious, I have never looked at Italian numbers.

[carriebft]

You have more of a chance of being exposed to Polio through Russia/ old soviet republics specifically Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and into Europe than the OPV from Africa idea, kwim?

We have evidence of the disease moving between these three countries at present. It is possible to see movement into Europe from that, but it is highly unlikely at this time.

[NaturalBirthGoddes]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

1. Because most people have been vaccinated and a booster couldn't hurt

2. Because it's what they've been taught and they don't know any better (I have a friend that is a head ER nurse and had no idea)

3. Because it's a great chance to give a shot and charge your insurance company

4. Because for Children it's the DTaP and increased vaccination rates of the 'P' Portion

Agreed...my older son fell and hit his head and got "road rash". They were adamant that we needed to get him a Tetanus shot...for road rash...which was bleeding/oozing. Just...wow.

[windorabug]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

Have you read of any cases of polio from the OPV in Italy? I'm curious, I have never looked at Italian numbers.

No I have not personally.

Originally Posted by carriebft

You have more of a chance of being exposed to Polio through Russia/ old soviet republics specifically Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and into Europe than the OPV from Africa idea, kwim?

We have evidence of the disease moving between these three countries at present. It is possible to see movement into Europe from that, but it is highly unlikely at this time.

thank you for this information

[bbrandonsmom]

Well, I guess you could ask yourself this-if you are worried about Polio, do you think the vaccine will protect your family?

Here is some info on Polio you might find useful-http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2010/05/26/polio-2010/

[smeep]

I'm absolutely THRILLED to see someone looking at it this way! I've always said, it's not risks vs. benefits, it's risks vs. risks...in this case, risks of the vaccines vs. risks of the diseases.

Dee (Fyrestorm) has a compiled list of vax reactions, vax deaths and disease deaths from the CDC. That helped...though I had already decided to not vax at all by the time I became acquainted with Dee and saw it. Until then, I just kind of put it all together through my research...risks of each thing.

But I would love to see if there is a compilation anywhere!

[shanniesue2]

Originally Posted by NaturalBirthGoddes

You cannot get the tetanus shot after you step on a rusty nail, you would need the immunoglobin administered.

.

warning... OT

huh.. this is interesting... about 10 years ago, I was working for a company that serves people with dev. disabilities... and one of the clients scratched my face... they sent me to the doc... doc cleaned me up, gave me some abx (you have to understand the likelihood that said client had all manner of nasties under her fingernails--this was a client who was very difficult to assist in hand washing and other hygiene habits, and I was working as a job coach, not a residential caregiver) Anyway, doc also asked me about the last time I'd had a tetanus shot. It had been way more than 10 years, so they gave me another one (this was way before I really knew anything about vax's except that they were "good for you and necessary, even if I didn't like shots"). So basically, that doc was giving me a "treatment" for an injury that wasn't actually going to prevent me from getting ill from the injury... annoying. I wonder if he was actually concerned about me getting tetanus from the scratch or if he just want to get me "up to date?"

okay, back to our regularly scheduled topic.