when is it MORE than cold feet? - Page 2

[LROM]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09

ok so his reasoning is everything is already paid for and theres no turning back b/c then we lose all the money...(you really dont get refunds at least not full)

he said he wants to be with me for the rest of his life and he will do whatever it takes to make us happy ect ect

now i have only ever had a real relationship with him. i even lost my virginity to him. (but we broke up for a while pre-baby and i had a fling) so ive been with two men sexually total.

a part of me could totally see myself with him forever, and the other part of me wants to know if there's something more yk?

when we younger we were like MADLY in love for 5 years and then it dwindled a bit. i do love him and we still have sex ect ect but how do i know that im still in love with him after the whole "honeymoon" stage?

my father has literally been trying to force me to marry DP since i was 15...no lie he even had the paperwork or w/e all filled out and we were like ummm we are not getting married!

anyways i feel it should at least be postponed and i agree completely that the whole ultimatum thing is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay immature. hes kind of immature in general...he completely abandoned me emotionally and for the most part physically my entire pregnancy...and didnt really come back emotionally until DD was 6 m/o....i was LUCKY if he changed a diaper. he would hold her sometimes...but he never spent any real time with her...but now he's a lot better...not as wonderful as i feel she nees him to be but shes really loves her daddy and he spends a good amount of time really being with her now. but of course this still bothers me a great deal and he keeps saying he apoligized and i need to get over it already...
i still feel that whole period of time should not be overlooked...
and im pretty worried if i get pregnant again is he going to do this to me?

i left him when DD was about 5 m/o and we ended up in a shelter b/c i have nowhere to go...it was horrible and i ended up coming back b/c i felt i couldn't do that to DD...
after that things improved alot.

im on unemployment and i just got $15,000 from an annuity acct. so i could start over again on my own but still how can i work? i dont have enough money for daycare certainly it would eat my whole paycheck.
my bff said she would help me but i would literally have to work 16hrs fri and sat then 8 hrs sun to make it work....i COULD do it but how would DD handle 16 hours without me? plus i would have to sleep when i got home anyways...and shes still nursing 6-10x a day.
im terrified of leaving..hes all i kow we have built our lives together and around eachother. where would i turn without him? how could i manage?

i miss my mother so much i wish i could just talk to her she would know what to do and help me. sorry OT but im pretty depressed right now

Your post, your depression, and the fact that so far from what I see in your posts that you're marrying him NOT because you think he's wonderful and awesome and you can list the many fantastic benefits to you and your child to being with him... BUT INSTEAD because he's the only partner you've known, you feel lost and unsure without him, and you don't know what you'd do if you had to be on your own... that leads me to say this:

If you think it's hard and expensive to break off the marriage now... you have no idea how hard... and how expensive (in not just money but emotional energy and physical energy) it will be to break it off AFTER THE FACT. Marriage can make it that much more complicated to get out if you need to. And with all your doubts, it doesn't matter how much money's already been put out, you should not be marrying him when marriage is supposed to be a commitment of what you WANT and believe is wonderful and best for your life.

p.s. I agree with the PP who said you need to ask all the "everyones" who are telling you it's best for your child, WHY and HOW it's best for your child.

I am in my 40s, have worked with families in a supportive position in one way or another for 20+ years, and I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a relationship where there were so many negatives and one or both parents were deeply unhappy, and yet staying together was best for the child. It just doesn't work that way. What's best for a child is to see a parent or both parents model improving what isn't working in life. And if that means splitting up, so be it. My parents split when I was 3, after having a doctor tell them I wasn't sleeping because of their arguing. I have thanked them a million times from when I was a teen on, because what I got out of it was 2 happier parents, who moved on with their lives and were better able to take care of me as a result.

And I model that for my daughter - my DP and I have almost broken up a few times because of serious issues, but it's when one or both of us makes real changes for the better that we say "Ok, maybe stayign together is better..." and so far that's what we've done. But I would leave if it got really bad and felt like I was sinking into a deep hole that I couldn't get out of. Because how good a parent can I be if I live liek that for the next 40 yrs? Matter of fact, we were engaged in 2008, but for all of 2009 and 2010 up until last week I'd broken it off and returned the ring because his state of mind wasn't committed. He just re-proposed last week, and I said yes, but that's after a lot of work. So I don't just preach this, I practice it too.

You have a tremendous amount of self-doubt and serious questions, plus your depression. Now is the time to postpone the wedding and figure out how you can feel better about your own abilities to care for your child and improve your life, not that your partner isn't also able to care for your child, but if you left and went into shelter before, chances are there are some major problems and I have no doubt you CAN take care of you and your child, but you doubt it which means you need time to build your tools, your supports, and your self-confidence.

You can only make a good decision about marriage to this guy when you have put yourself in a better emotional, confident place. Unless you get clear that you have to split from him to get to that place... then so be it if that's true.

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

You asked about the romantic love and is there more out there and that kind of thing. I would ask - is he your best friend? If the BEST thing happened to you today, would you call him first? If the WORST thing happened to you today, would you call him first? [B]yes and yes[B]

I never had cold feet about being married. I had some worries about the wedding itself but never, ever about marrying my DH. We've been married 16 years.

he really is my best friend i dont have a doubt about that. we have been through thick and thin together and besides the preganancy he was always there for me (through my mothers death, his step-dads death, me getting r@ped, all of my crazy depression, past alcoholism...ect ect)

[mum4vr]

Originally Posted by la mamita

slooooooooooow down mama. first things first: you have a wedding lined up. either you need to postpone, call it off completely, or go through with it.

if you postpone or call it off, THEN think about whether or not to continue with the relationship.

and then you are permitted to freak out about life as a single mom. which, btdt, is wonderful and difficult and rewarding--and definitely worth it in comparison to being in a relationship that you don't want. the single parenting forum here is great and can help you work out the basics--how do i manage, how do i work, how do i get childcare, how do i handle this...
if you get to this step, you can and you will figure out how to make you and your child's life the best that it can be.

but, right now, you need to step back from all of that. from what you have written about your fiance, it seems like you have some issues to work out: his immaturity, him not putting in 100% raising your child, your dependence on your first love. these are some major concerns that couples therapy could definitely help you address.

I agree w la mamita and most PPs as well.

Especially on the couples counseling! This is essential. Maybe you two can work on issues and become comfortable with the future and have the wedding on schedule. Maybe you can work on it and just postpone the wedding a bit. Maybe you will work on it, and decide to cut your losses and accept that the deposits are gone, and the relationship over. No matter what your decision, we are not able to understand the whole picture as well as a wise counselor could.

IMO this is the very least you two must do to make a decision that will be a blessing to everyone.

On the upside, I must encourage you and your DF-- you both seem far more commited to your family than most people I know in your generation (not bashing this generation-- just relaying my experience with many of its members). It is a beautiful thing to hear from a young mama who is willing to sacrifice much to do the best things for her DC, and to hear of a father so commited to his DF and child.

blessings

[doubledutch]

i think couple's counselling is a good idea, if you can both be 100% honest and open - about your fears, feelings, wants, needs, dreams, and blatant dislikes. if you can't, then don't bother.

[Purple*Lotus]

Originally Posted by doubledutch

i can understand wanting to know what else is out there, not just in terms of a romantic relationship, but there is something to be said for being completely on your own as an adult. not just spending your life as your father's daughter and then your husband's wife.

I 100% agree with this.

I was a person who got married because he was the only thing I had ever known. As I walked down the aisle I had doubts. I truly wish that I had had the courage to make the choice that made ME happy, and not the people around me or my STBX. I spent nine long years in that relationship and was never fulfilled. Please do not repeat my mistake. You do not want to put yourself or your darling child through that.

OP, I am so sorry that you do not have your Mother around to support you through all of this. I urge you to take the advice of the many wise Mamas on here.

[sosurreal09]

i guess i just have not brought up the positives. i know im screwed up and need help first of all....everytime i try to get help something stands in my way. i HAVE been in therapy since i was 15. i have a lot of issues that just dont seem to be getting resolved very well, yet i have come a long way.

we downright full fledge love eachother. its not always perfect and recently there have been times where i thought it was over for good (i left b/c he was unsupportive when DD was born) but when its all said and done we seem to always come back for more. i dont think im co-dependent on him or vise versa i think we "need" eachother b/c neither one of us seems to function well without one another. we did break up for a year pre-baby and even after a whole year and different g/fs and b/fs the minute we saw eachother it was all over we had to be together.
when we are apart its like the world has come to an end.

i have been distant with him the past few days b/c of all my doubts ect and then he was giving DD a bath and i went over and sat on his lap (he was sitting on the toilet) and the minute i sat down i felt immediately better. i felt like i was home. i think maybe we are ok and it will work out, even if we are always poor or w/e else may come.

idk maybe i am ready after all...

[katelove]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09

when we younger we were like MADLY in love for 5 years and then it dwindled a bit. i do love him and we still have sex ect ect but how do i know that im still in love with him after the whole "honeymoon" stage?

I'm not going to speak to the question of whether you should marry this man or not. I think the PPs have raised all the important points/questions about that.

But, I did want to comment on your question here. I don't think you can expect to *feel* head over heels in love every day for the rest of your life. Those feelings will come and go. I do not believe for one second that this means that one has chosen the wrong partner. There has been a lot written about the hormones which come into play when one meets a new person and how long those last (about 2 years is average I believe) etc. Google "limerence" if you want to read more.

In his speech at our wedding, my father used the following quote from Peter Jensen (an Australian anglican archbishop), I think it is very wise. Not easy, but wise. Now, just to be clear, "hurts" does *not* refer to an abusive situation but to the daily grind, the little irritations and unkindnesses which come from familiarity and tiredness and human-ness. The point is, if you expect the "madly in love" feeling to last, then you will always be disappointed and doubting.

“The daily decision to keep loving your partner, even when it hurts, is what makes a marriage last and grow. This deliberate, intentional choice - to keep loving even when you don’t feel like it - is the most difficult choice of all, and by far the most important”.

All the best with it.

Regards
Kate

[Snapdragon]

what do you WANT? How do you want your life to be? Try to find a mental image of how you want your life to be some time down the road (in 1 yr, in 5 yrs, in 10 yrs)
Does marrying this guy put you on a road that if you keep walking it is going in the direction you are trying to go?
Or is it actually walking further and deeper into a road you want to get off of?
If it is the second, then it would be better to turn around now- before you are married, and possibly have more children, and get more embedded into something you already don't want to be in.
But at the same time, all the issues you mention, lots of those are things you have to figure out in your own life. So it is not like if you decide not to marry him then all your problems are solved, but neither is it that they will be solved if you do marry. Those issues are things you will have to do the work to fix for yourself.
But from how you describe it, it does not sound like you want to marry this guy. It sounds like you are scared and don't know where to go or what to do.
but then again if you have 15, 000 and you aren't married to him- then in a way you have lots of options!
But I can't tell you what is right- I mean, we make choices in our lives based on so many things- so many deeply held beliefs that no one else could understand.
It is hard to tell a stranger on the internet what to do- I don't know you or him or your lives. But reacting only to the posts you posted about it, and from the perspective of life where I sit- I would say it sounds like more than cold feet. My advice is to start a new path- figure out what you want to find in life and go for that!

[Hykue]

A couple of years ago I had a bit of a "do-I-want-to-be-with-him" crisis with my partner. It was triggered not by a proposed wedding but by him (finally) agreeing to have kids with me (which I had been wanting him to agree to for years). You would think I would have said, "Yay, what I've always wanted!" but I said "Eeek, what if this isn't what I want?" instead.

What I found helped me was to make a list of things that I want from my life. I tried to get him to make one too, but he didn't know for sure what he wanted, exactly. He sort of made one mentally. Then we compared them. They were pretty similar. I had to compromise on one or two low-priority items, and I think he did too, but the big, top-of-the-list items, like living on a farm and growing our own food, we agreed on.

I can't make any specific suggestions, because I don't know either of you or your situation at all. But I would suggest that you do something like we did. Make a life plan, evaluate your goals - the really big picture stuff. I think this is a great idea to do every few years completely regardless of crises. Just ask yourself, "What do I want my life to look like?", and "How do I want to get there?". Ask your partner to do the same. Try to be honest, and try to be self-centered enough to be accurate - don't fool yourself into saying "To be with him forever". For me, I also made a list of qualities that I wanted in a partner. Then I honestly evaluated my partner for those qualities. It was easy because we have known each other for a long time (since I was about 15 as well, and I'm 30 now, but we have only been together for 10 of those years). If the balance of your goals line up with the balance of his goals, and each of you fulfills most of the qualities the other wants in a partner, then go for it, it's probably just nerves (that's what we did - we're still together and we exchanged rings . . . now if we could just get the timing right for this whole pregnancy thing). If your lists are mismatched and things don't really line up, then you'll know where you stand. In that case, it will be useful to have a list of what your goals are, so you can know exactly what you're aiming for.

I also think it helped us to improve our relationship, because it gave us both clear guidance on what we could do to make each other happier - I could try to take his advice better, and he could try to be more playful (I like concrete examples, I hope you don't mind). I think it was one of the most useful exercises I've ever done, and I recommend it for new couples and those going through questioning times especially. An advantage over therapy is that it's free.

I know I basically just reiterated what a previous poster said, but I wanted to emphasize it. I do also want to give a bit of a warning - it was hard to do this, especially since it was in the context of questioning our whole relationship. It was painful, and it caused some bitterness at the time, but we came out the other side of it much stronger. It really allowed our relationship to grow, but not without some growing pains.

I hope you find the path that works for you . . . and I wanted to mention that it sounds to me like you do want to be with him, but you're scared that you might be missing something better - that's my bias, because that's where I was with my partner when we had our crisis. We very nearly split up, but it allowed us to work through all our unspoken issues much more cleanly, and paved the way for better communication and understanding in the future. And the fear that you might be missing something better is completely understandable, given your limited romantic experience. I have gone out with a lot of guys, and my sister has even more, and both of us came to the conclusion that there is no "perfect match", just two people who have similar goals and who fulfill the absolute requirements each has for a partner. But only you can know if that will bother you in the future, that you never "looked around" to see if there was someone else.

[confustication]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09

he really is my best friend i dont have a doubt about that. we have been through thick and thin together and besides the preganancy he was always there for me (through my mothers death, his step-dads death, me getting r@ped, all of my crazy depression, past alcoholism...ect ect)

You are 23, there is SO MUCH here to process at that age. I think that you really need to have a little not-so-chaotic time in your life before you make any major decisions.

I had my daughter at 23, and I was just coming out of my own whirlwind/personal demons (different, but still huge issues.) The one thing I wish was that I had taken the time THEN before making major decisions to breathe and focus on myself for a bit.

It isn't that you can't do that within a marriage or relationship- but you need a partner who will support you in being a strong and independent person, as well as a wonderful partner and momma. If he's trying to pressure you into something when you are asking for time and space, you may want to evaluate whether he can be that person for you.

[Dandelionkid]

My Dh was my first, we knew each other since 16 yrs old. I had many many doubts before we married at 24 yrs but it has worked out well for us. Looking back a lot of my doubts were based on my own insecurities. I will say my Dh matured a whole lot in his 20's in terms of communication etc, but I guess I did too.

You are both still young. You have a lot of pressure on you to get married. Maybe conversely the pressure is causing doubt- "am I just doing it for these people?"

It doesn't seem right to have to make such a big decision while you are in the midst of depression, or is the depression caused by the decision?

Counselling seems to be really needed right now!

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09

he told me i either marry him now or not at all.

Not cool.

Originally Posted by sosurreal09

ok so his reasoning is everything is already paid for and theres no turning back b/c then we lose all the money...(you really dont get refunds at least not full)

Which is cheaper- losing the deposits or getting divorced? Divorce is, by far, more expensive. If his only reason for getting married *right now* is the money, you should really think hard about that.

DP and I are getting married in a few months. If, for whatever reason, I told him I wanted to wait (for 1 day, 1 year, 10 years, whatever) the money we lost would be the last thing on his mind (and he works in a financial position and is all about money/number crunching/etc). He would be far more concerned with *why* I wanted to wait and what we could do (as a couple and as individuals) to get to the point where we were both comfortable with marriage (or with parting ways, if that's where it took us).

I think you should suggest couples counseling. If he refuses- you have your answer about getting married. If he goes and puts in the effort, then you have some serious thinking to do.

[LynnS6]

I know someone who broke off her wedding after the invitations were mailed. It can be done. Was it embarrassing? Yes. Was it better than being married to the wrong man? DEFINITELY.

Ultimatums aren't good. I agree with others: Tell him you want couples counseling before you're married. If he balks, he's not the one.

[dakotablue]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09

i know im screwed up and need help first of all....everytime i try to get help something stands in my way.

OK so question about this. Is this how you feel? or is this how he makes you feel?

HUGE difference, one points to maybe you don't want to get married because you doubt your own self worth and worthiness to be happy with a great guy? OR this statement points to a broken person who is being pressured to think they have no other choice but to marry the 'best' they could get.

Which is it do you think?

[BabyMae09]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

my advice is to postpone the wedding to give him time to change the things you want changed.

don't expect that marriage will cause a change. If he has no real interest in getting an education and building a career, there's nothing about a wedding that will make that happen.

Many of the women I know who've gone through divorce end up going through it for reasons they already knew when they got married.

I don't necessarily agree with that. My DH has changed almost dramatically since we got married (where his family and family business are concerned). Granted it's only been two months.

HOWEVER - I was willing to accept him for where he was - changing was not a requirement I had for him, just a desire.

That being said, my *personal* feeling is that you are too young to get married. Not in age, but in how you feel/deal with things. I mean that in the kindest possible way. I also personally think (and I could be wrong!) that marrying someone you've been with since you were 15 or 16 is just setting you up for a lot of reasons to choose to be unhappy with that person down the road.

On the other hand, you don't have anything really negative to say about your DP, other than he's acting young/a bit irresponsible. That's something that will change and it will probably start to change very soon (unless he's the type of guy that never grows up then you're going to be dealing with crap for a loooooooong time).

When I posted on MDC a few months back about my DP and the issues we were having with his nutso family and his inability to deal with them on my behalf and get the ef out of the family business already, someone replied to me and said 'you know you and your kids deserve better, you really do.' Well, yes, we did and do deserve better. And since we've gotten married, he has turned into such a grown up, it's awesome. We only go see his family when I am okay with going also, we aren't seeing his crazy brother and wife during the holidays, etc. And he came up with these ideas on his own! (After me suggesting them a million times haha).

He even wrote his brother an e-mail telling him that they weren't treating me well and that he loves me and they need to back off.

So, I guess you have to decide whether you think he'll grow up soon enough for you. And whether it's worth it to try to make things work with your kid(s) Dad (I'm assuming - your post wasn't clear on that point).

Good luck, and I hope things work out well for you

Originally Posted by sosurreal09

i tend to freak out...i seem to run away when things get tough or uncomfortable for me.

hes my best friend and i love him but we are young (23) and our lives are not where i want them to be...i guess it's a real leap of faith to trust that he will go to college/get a better job. i mean our life is rough right now he makes $1400-$1600 a month we cant afford anything. he says he's going to change some things....but i told him that i cant just trust that he will change.

i also have alot of issues myself that i need to fix. a big thing for me is that i have been having really rough bouts of depression the last 6 months...

Ok, so - I tended to run away when things got tough too. I did 2.5 years of mindfulness therapy, once a week for the first 18 months. It helped more than I can say.

If you can't trust your partner of 8 years to say he's going to do something when he says he will, that's a big red flag. But, like I said earlier, it's just immaturity, and getting married might be the 'cue' his brain needs to man up.

Depression - I was extremely depressed when I was with my ex - to the point of trying to slit my wrists one night with him watching. Yeah. when i broke up with him, lo and behold, I started feeling somuchbetter. He even had me taking anti-depressants because 'I was the one with the problem.' Well, no, the problem was that I couldn't be myself with him - he wouldn't allow it.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts and experiences. Hope some of what i wrote helps you

[lonegirl]

I wanted to say...I truly believe you need sit down as a couple (go out for dinner just the two of you) and talk. Talk about dreams, goals for your family, fears, plans, everything!! Really, he is your best friend, you have said that several times. Do what best friends do best....talk.
I married at 20 am still very happily married to my best friend 17 years later. We started our relationship 21 years ago in highschool....talking. We moved in together at 18 just out of highschool...we spent a few years on welfare and living off only school loans....waaay below the poverty line. We have had rough financial spots and made it through...it can be done....as a team!
Everyone has given you a lot to think about and I wish you the best!

[LessTraveledBy]

Originally Posted by Unoppressed MAMA Q

Hm. When it comes to marriage, I say 'when in doubt, don't'. Not sure if this feels helpful or not.

[provocativa]

i also say, when in doubt, don't. i doubted, but believed that 'love is a decision crap'. and he turned into an abusive asshat after baby #1, we're divorcing now after being trapped for 8 years and it is a lot more expensive and painful for the kids. it is so much better to piss off family and friends than to get trapped in a marriage- and yes, they can be legal traps.

can't you go to counseling by yourself monday, and work on some of the questions that wise mamas have posed here, then work on those with your dp, either in counseling or at a private dinner?

[sosurreal09]

oo so here are some big things.

first and foremost NONE of our family knows we are even together! we told them we broke up a few months ago b/c we were sick of everyone being up our butts about staying together or breaking it off...our wedding is me him and DD (in a gorgeous sling i made out of chiffon,lace,and beading that matches my dress!) eloping to Vegas.

secondly my depression is not b/c im with him. i have had an extremely, extremely difficult life, have been to countless therapists...meds...ect and everyone who's evaluated me and knows my whole story is completely shocked that i am as normal as i am. i had one therapist in uteer dis-belief that i could even form a relationship/connect with another human being period. its been a bit worse since the baby....i think alot of it has to do with lack of sleep and an overwhelming feeling of oh my God i need my mother.

thirdly my father is an a$$ i dont care what he wants. he abandoned me at 15 and gave me up to the state.

hes all for couseling btw. we just have to get health insurance b/c it JUST got canceled...im going to tallk to him about the whole lets compare our goals dreams ect thing

btw TY for the advice so far. i know you all dont know me but it IS really difficult when no one knows whats going on and i dont have anyone to really ask. im not close with the little family i do have, my bff wants to stay out of it (but supports me either way), and we dont want to tell anyone else anyways so...you're opinions do matter.

[Smokering]

he told me i either marry him now or not at all.

OK, that is the wrong answer. The right answer, for the record, is "Honey, I'll marry you tomorrow, next year or in ten years' time. I'll wait for you as long as you need, because I know we're going to be together forever and you're worth the wait".

Being 23 doesn't give him a pass on being immature. DH was 23 or 24 when we got married (heh, can't remember! I was 20), and managed to get down the aisle without any threats. Maturity is a REQUIREMENT for marriage, not a pleasing optional extra - so if he doesn't have it, he shouldn't be doing it. His attitude towards parenting sounds like it needs an adjustment, as well as his attitude towards you. If you were both in his 30s and he was behaving like he is, would you still want to marry him? Well, if it's not acceptable at 30, it's not acceptable at 23 in a person you're going to spend the rest of your life with.

It doesn't sound like he's all bad, and I'm not necessarily saying "Don't do it" - but definitely, PLEASE, make sure you're doing it for reasons unrelated to parental pressure or wedding costs. Or even DD - I'm all for parents being married, but not if it's doomed. He could still be an involved parent without being your husband or even your boyfriend.