Prominent supporters of UC?

[kitty waltz]

I've been looking everywhere for some kind of list of prominent supporters of UC. My husband hasn't been too vocal yet about his apprehension of our upcoming UC, but I know its there. I want to normalize the concept to him, and show him that others think its not only safe, but optimal. Any info or thoughts appreciated.

[MeepyCat]

UC is a pretty fringe movement - I don't think you're going to win this with your husband by reference to eminent authorities.

A few years ago, I read A Midwife's Tale by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. It's a biography based on the diaries of a midwife in Colonial-era Maine. It was an interesting read, although it talked a lot less about birthing practices than I would have expected. One of the things I remember from it was a quote from one of the leading obstetricians of the day, something to the effect of "nine times out of ten, a healthy young woman can give birth, unassisted, in the middle of the village green, and come through fine." (I'm paraphrasing - sorry my memory isn't more precise.) I think that this statement was basically true, and is probably basically still true. The problem is the tenth time.

Furthermore, while there are lots of reasons to pursue unassisted birth, safety is not one of them. There aren't many studies on this, but investigations of religious communities in which unassisted pregnancy and birth are the norm show rather alarming mortality rates. You would be safer if you were attended by a skilled medical professional, in a facility with emergency equipment ready at hand. This risk is yours to take, but you should acknowledge that you are taking it.

I think your husband is right to be concerned. Without a doctor or midwife on the scene, he's going to be the guy who has to help if you need help. That's a huge responsibility, and it's understandable that he may feel apprehensive and unprepared.

[dayiscoming2006]

I can't see how being in a hospital with lots of germs would be better. Also, interventions in hospital that could lead to issues with health, etc are prominent.

Some midwives are really pushy too from what I know. And if they deliver you in a hospital you still have that issue.

Home birth with a midwife would be nice but some homebirth midwives are very hands on about things too and I think that can cause more harm than good.

If you can find a hands off homebirth midwife, I think that's the safest route in a low risk pregnancy but, I don't think there are a lot of those since there are things they are required to do by law.

For me UC seems like a good safe choice. I avoid the interventions and the germs.

I say every woman should make the choice that sits right with them.

I would share with my husband the research about homebirth being safer for an uncomplicated pregnancy. (there's stats out there but I don't have them at hand so do a search please. )
And I would find a couple of really inspiring UC birth stories that you could share with him to bring him more at ease hopefully. Also, being really really prepared with all the info for what to do in an emergency should help with peace of mind some.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by dayiscoming2006

I would share with my husband the research about homebirth being safer for an uncomplicated pregnancy. (there's stats out there but I don't have them at hand so do a search please. )

I did do a search, and I would love to see your data. The best I came up with was "A number of studies have shown that the safety of an attended home birth for low-risk women is equal to the risks of giving birth in the hospital or a birthing center." (emphasis mine)

Equal risk is not less risk. Further, the OP is contemplating an unattended birth, not an attended one.

I support the right of all women to make informed birth choices. No one can make an informed choice without real data.

[kitty waltz]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

UC is a pretty fringe movement - I don't think you're going to win this with your husband by reference to eminent authorities.

LOL! Not looking for 'eminent authorities'. I am well aware of Laura Kaplan Shanley, and Jeannine Parvati Baker.... It has been 7 yrs since I last had an unassisted pregnancy and birth, and was wondering if there are any newly outspoken supporters of UC, essentially. Maybe I should've worded that better, but I think its pretty clear.

A few years ago, I read A Midwife's Tale by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. It's a biography based on the diaries of a midwife in Colonial-era Maine. It was an interesting read, although it talked a lot less about birthing practices than I would have expected. One of the things I remember from it was a quote from one of the leading obstetricians of the day, something to the effect of "nine times out of ten, a healthy young woman can give birth, unassisted, in the middle of the village green, and come through fine." (I'm paraphrasing - sorry my memory isn't more precise.) I think that this statement was basically true, and is probably basically still true. The problem is the tenth time.

Furthermore, while there are lots of reasons to pursue unassisted birth, safety is not one of them. There aren't many studies on this, but investigations of religious communities in which unassisted pregnancy and birth are the norm show rather alarming mortality rates. You would be safer if you were attended by a skilled medical professional, in a facility with emergency equipment ready at hand. This risk is yours to take, but you should acknowledge that you are taking it.

I think your husband is right to be concerned. Without a doctor or midwife on the scene, he's going to be the guy who has to help if you need help. That's a huge responsibility, and it's understandable that he may feel apprehensive and unprepared.

I know for a fact it is not safer to give birth at the hands of a surgeon. Esp since I have midwifery training, and have given birth unassisted before.. I know that whatever statistics there may be about unassisted birth would not apply to me. Also, these studies are mostly biased due to unplanned UC being included: ie the side of the road scenario. I think you should check out 'birth in 4 cultures' you might find it illuminating.

dayiscoming - he isn't trying to talk me into a hospital or a midwife. I actually am not certain that safety is his concern as he hasn't voiced his thoughts. I just know he is nervous about it.

I have had a hospital birth - forced c sec, a pushy midwife, and a UBAC already. I know which is the safest choice for me! I have told him about homebirth and the research thereof.. and he knows I have done this before, and caught other women's babies.. I almost think it isn't about safety at all. But what was said about it being a fringe movement is true.. thats why Im looking for as many names as possible to be able to say 'look, its not just me and these 2 fave authors of mine', etc..

Originally Posted by Meepycat

I did do a search, and I would love to see your data. The best I came up with was "A number of studies have shown that the safety of an attended home birth for low-risk women is equal to the risks of giving birth in the hospital or a birthing center." (emphasis mine)

Equal risk is not less risk. Further, the OP is contemplating an unattended birth, not an attended one.

I support the right of all women to make informed birth choices. No one can make an informed choice without real data.

I am very informed, thank you very much. I'm not contemplating UC, no.. I'm planning it.

I guess I'm wondering.. if you are so anti- UC, why are you trying to answer my question?

[lovestolearn]

Here's are some other UC supporters in the Birthing Professionals world:
Dr. Sarah Buckley, author of Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering, is an Australian physician who has had an unassisted birth (yes, she is a doctor, but read her book and her birth stories!) It's a great book to read in preparation for a UC, IMO!
Carla Hartley, founder of the Ancient Arts Midwifery Institute

Pamela Hines-Powell, midwife and contributor to Midwifery Today.

and I imagine Dr. Michel Odent, though I don't know his stance on "unattended" birth, he is definitely a HUGE supporter of physiological birth (which means medically unassisted to me!)

[kitty waltz]

Originally Posted by lovestolearn

Depends what you mean by "prominent", LOL!
Here's a list of some UC supporters in the Birthing Professionals world:
Dr. Sarah Buckley, author of Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering, is an Australian physician who has had an unassisted birth (yes, she is a doctor, but read her book and her birth stories!) It's a great book to read in preparation for a UC, IMO!
Carla Hartley, founder of the Ancient Arts Midwifery Institute
Laura Shanley, founder of the Bornfree website, author of Unassisted Childbirth and mediapersonality/speaker.
Pamela Hines-Powell, midwife and contributor to Midwifery Today.

and let's not forget our dearly departedJeannine Parvati Baker, one of the early vocal supporters of "freebirth"

Thanks! I haven't heard of Dr Sara Buckley, or Carla Hartley, so I will check them out.

I'm also a big fan of Jeannine Parvati Baker

[MsBlack]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

I did do a search, and I would love to see your data. The best I came up with was "A number of studies have shown that the safety of an attended home birth for low-risk women is equal to the risks of giving birth in the hospital or a birthing center." (emphasis mine)

No one can make an informed choice without real data.

You are so right that we can't make informed choices without real data, thanks so much for pointing that out!

So, in the interests of increasing the real data available to women here, I would suggest looking into the most recent studies done on homebirth in the Netherlands and Canada, most especially. Because while Meepycat is certainly right about 'equal risk of home and hosp' when it comes to infant mortality, the part she left out---which has been proven OVER AND OVER AGAIN in many studies over the last few decades--is that at home, women and babies are AT FAR LOWER RISK for injuries and illnesses caused by the methods of care: drugs, episiotomies, over management, exposure to superbugs, all the rest.

(however, these studies are indeed talking about 'planned, attended hb', not UC--still, using the basis presented I thought it was important to point out the part that got left out).

In a hurry at the moment and only have the Canadian study link ready to hand...but here it is:

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/cmaj;181/6-7/377

I also think it is very important to point out that there is usually a BIG difference between the kind of UCer who comes here to learn, and people on religious communes: I'm sure those people DO have very poor stats, because they are not (usually) concerned either with having a skilled attendant OR any personal knowledge to help them birth safely. I have read several stories about such births over the years, some including the participation of their own 'midwives' whose main purpose is to pray over the mothers. Now I am a fan of prayer but if you are going to rely solely on prayer to get you through, then why have a mw at all? Anyway, the 'religious UCer' of this sort is not looking for information, they are looking only to act in faith and pray for deliverance if things go wrong. Some have actually died (babies and mothers) because their fellow church members present shamed them into staying home to pray over that never ending labor, or constant flow of blood....the mothers/fathers themselves saw danger and wanted to get help.

Now not to dis being religious--but if you're religious and you're here, then you're probably taking your faith with a good healthy dose of knowledge as well! Something that I think the Bible, for instance, does support in many a passage throughout. And that knowledge about birth is something that is not sought, usually, in the religious communes that see UC death (and other preventable deaths throughout people's lives). Talk about 'fringe'!

[dayiscoming2006]

Thanks Ms. Black. I was thinking of those studies you mentioned but it was late when I answered and I was in a hurry too and was trying to be supportive of the OP because the first answerer seemed really anti-UC.

I would have provided links but I have a lengthy bookmarks list to sort out.

It sounds like OP is strong though.

[dayiscoming2006]

I wanted to add that I agree with you Ms. Black on the difference between a commune and someone that is religious but informed and willing to take action.

I personally trust in my God but I also know he has given me responsibility and access to information. These can all be answers to prayer. Looking for an answer to prayer many times isn't about sitting on your hands and hoping for the best. - although occasionally there is nothing that can done but that. I also know that God may have other plans than what I have. And I need to go with the flow on that.

[mama naturale]

Laura Shanley (BornFree)
Dr Sarah J Buckley